Turkish Study Group

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Saim
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Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-04, 13:25

As per this discussion, I am opening a study group for Turkish. My proposals for what to do this week are as follows:

Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xor_g2emHMo
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/Simarik-Spoilt.html

This one is an oldie but a goodie.

Video
LangMedia Culture Talk Turkey: "Cultural Activities"
http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/cultu ... nt-Choices
http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/fileu ... l_m1e2.pdf

Textbook
İstanbul: Yabancılar için türkçe ders kitabı B1
pp.8-9 (1. Ünite: yeni bir hayat)

Anyone is free to join and make suggestions for media to look at, and depending on everyone's level or amount of time we can do different resources -- my suggestions have been for the lower-intermediate/intermediate level. I thought it would also be good to share notes on these resources so that we can correct each other and reduce the effort required to look things up, especially since the textbook is monolingual.

(I will be out of commission from 15 July to the 11th of August but after that I will be straight back into it).
Last edited by Saim on 2018-07-04, 14:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-04, 14:08

Glossary for Tarkan - Şımarık

1
kol - arm
çatlatmak - to crack, split
ağız - mouth
sakız - chewing gum
şişirmek - to blow, inflate
arsız - cheeky[1]
patlamak - to blow up

2
vurulmak - to be struck, hit
sığmak - to fit (into something)
şımarık - spoiled (person)
değişmek - to change

3
kaş - eyebrow
sürmek - to drive
dudak - lip
kıpkırmızı - bright red, scarlet
kırıtmak - behave flirtatiously
utanma - shame (=ar?)
inat - stubbornness
sırıtmak - to grin

4
ele güne - ???
rezil olmak - to be disgraced (rezil etmek - to make a fool of someone)
mahvolmak - to be ruined destroyed

5
fındıkkıran - nutcracker (fındık - hazelnut;
delik - hole
püskül - tassle
belâ - trouble
kader - fate
yakalamak - to catch


ocak - stove, furnace
kucak - lap

[1] ar = shame (feeling of shame)

Some more literal translations of the lyrics
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/Simarik-Spoilt.html

Değişti mi bu dünya
Has the world turned upside down changed?

Biz böyle mi gördük babamızdan
We weren't raised that way
Is like this [interrogative particle] we saw "from" our father

This song has more lyrics than I thought. :lol:

EDIT: It's because it's actually this version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zLZ6Mc0VL0
Last edited by Saim on 2018-07-04, 15:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-04, 14:30

Other sentences for some of the new words from Tarkan - Şımarık

All from Glosbe (some of the translations have been edited by me to remove names or to highlight certain grammar points).

Sanki bütün kolum parçalanmış gibi!
It's as if my whole arm is shattered!

Kafatası çatlatmak suç değil mi?
Isn't cracking skulls a crime?

Ağzının kenarında ne var?
What is on the side of your mouth?

O bebek arabasına sığmıyor artık.
He doesn't fit into the pram anymore.

Arabayı kim sürüyordu?
Who was driving the car?

Dudakları beni kendine tutsak etti
Her lips have made me a prisoner.

Haline bak, acayip sırıtıyorsun.
Look at you[r state], oddly grinning.

Elbisem de mahvoldu.
Plus, my dress is ruined.

Yerde koca bir delik var.
There's a large hole in the floor [ground?].

Ne çeşit bir belâ?
What kind of trouble?

Herkes dışarıda katili yakalamakla meşgul.
Everyone's busy [with] catching the killer outside.

Yani hiç mutfak ocağını kullanmıyor?
So he never uses the kitchen stove?

Sen sakin ol, hiç utanman yok mu?
Calm down, have you no shame?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-05, 3:05

HAHAHA (sorry :blush:) I'm amazed that you started with this song! I found it on learningpracticalturkish.com as a teenager (after hearing a short excerpt of it on a Lufthansa flight once on one of their news reports :P). There must be at least a partial analysis available there if you're interested.

I'm pretty sure I used to have a jealous hatecrush on Tarkan. :lol:

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-05, 4:47

vijayjohn wrote:HAHAHA (sorry :blush:) I'm amazed that you started with this song! I found it on learningpracticalturkish.com as a teenager (after hearing a short excerpt of it on a Lufthansa flight once on one of their news reports :P). There must be at least a partial analysis available there if you're interested.


Yeah, it's quite a famous song. I checked learningpracticalturkish.com and all they have is a translation of the lyrics.

Are we doing the study plan? Or have I given you too much work? Give me some feedback, man!

Also when are you going to pick a ghazal for me to study?

I'm pretty sure I used to have a jealous hatecrush on Tarkan. :lol:


Are you also jealous of the guys in Axe commercials?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-05, 5:39

Saim wrote:Yeah, it's quite a famous song.

I know, I've heard it so many times in such random contexts (there was an Indian association or something at college one time that was playing it I guess to promote their organization?? I was like wtf). There were also a few times when girls asked me to sing it for them. :para: :oops:
I checked learningpracticalturkish.com and all they have is a translation of the lyrics.

Oh. Well pfft then. (I haven't used that site in so many years. :lol: I guess I just have much better resources now. Some of those resources are people. Okay maybe I've been reading a little too much TY Business French :P).
Are we doing the study plan? Or have I given you too much work? Give me some feedback, man!

Oh! Sorry! Yeah, let's try it out and see how it goes! :D
Also when are you going to pick a ghazal for me to study?

I just did! :whistle:
Are you also jealous of the guys in Axe commercials?

Nah, I'm not jealous of anyone anymore. :) The only reason why I used to be really was just because I hadn't come to terms with my own sexuality yet.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-07-05, 10:31

:nicethread:

Saim wrote:Ele güne rezil olduk


El can mean 'people', so the meaning of this line is smth like 'We embarrassed ourselves in front of people in broad daylight'.
Here is the tureng entry: http://tureng.com/tr/turkce-ingilizce/e ... 5%9F%C4%B1

Here is a fun performance of this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkdPb04e9_8

It is an episode of Ukraine's song competition 'X-factor'. The guy messed up the pronunciation, but it's ok; the funniest part is, the decorations that they created for the performance -- the Ottoman style with sultan and his harem and belly-dancing -- are totally discordant with the song's lyrics, which are about a cheeky girl who blows bubbles with gum.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-05, 11:55

Thanks! And now I have another video to use as input for Russian. :D

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-08, 10:57

LangMedia: Cultural Activities

Vocabulary
olay - event, case
etkinlik - activity, event
örneğin - for example
özellikle - especially
sergi - exhibit
açısından - with regards to
hemen hemen - almost, nearly [1]
mevcut - existing, present (from Arabic موجود mawjuud)
eser - (artistic) work, production (from Arabic أثر)

[1] hemen - immediately
[2] I was aware of أثر meaning effect (as well as مؤثر - effective), but not in the meaning of artwork.

Constructions
Tiyatroya istediğiniz zaman gidebilirsiniz
You can go to the theatre whenever you want

Her türlü istediğiniz kültürel etkinliği bulabilirsiniz
You can find any type of cultural activity you like

Türkiye tarih açısından çok zengin olduğu için
Since Turkey is quite rich in [with regards to] history

Example sentences

Dışarıda caddede bir olay oldu.
We had an incident outside on the street.

Bir kaç şanssız olay yüzünden ertelendi.
Delayed, due to [some] unfortunate events.

Kış sevenler için yaz etkinlikleri.
Summer activities for winter lovers.

Ana etkinliğe gidelim.
Let's get to the main event.

Örneğin matematik sonuçlarına bakalım:
For example, let's look at the maths results:

Doğa Tarihi Müzesi'nde bir sergi yapıyorduk.
We're making an exhibit for the Museum of Natural History.

Uzun bir oyun açısından düşünmeliyiz.
We have to think in terms of the [a] long game.

Bu açıdan, aşağı yukarı herşeyi görebilirsin.
From this angle, you can pretty much see everything.

Eğlenceli olan hemen hemen hiçbir şey erdemli değildir.
Nearly everything that is jolly is not virtuous.

Yeterli bakır mevcuttu.
There was enough copper in it.

Epey potansiyel mevcut.
There's so much potential.

Bu en iyi eserim olacak...
This could be my best work!

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-08, 11:48

İstanbul: Yabancılar için türkçe ders kitabı B1

p.8

0-2
Buradan yürüyerek evine gidebilirsin
From here you can go home on foot

Arkadaşımla yolda konuşa konuşa okula geldik
With-my-friends on-way talking talking to-school we-came
I talked to my friends on the way to school

Spor yapmaya yapmaya kilo aldım
I put on weight [due to not?] playing sport

Dersine çalışmayarak sınavdan kötü not aldı.
I got a bad note from the exact [due to not studying for the class?]

Daha önce hiç taşındınız mı?
Have you ever moved before?

Aşağıdaki nedenlerin taşınmak için bir etkisi oldu mu?
Was it the effect of one of these reasons for moving?

Taşınırken ne tür problemler ile karşılaşabilirsiniz?
What kind of problems can we come across while moving?

3

peşin - cash advance
peş - back, behind
düzenli - tidy

Fiyatı görüşebiliriz.
We can discuss the price.

4

maaş - wage, pay
ayırmak - to separate, set apart
ısınmak - to get warm, warm up
görünmek - to seem, appear, be seen
bir an önce - as soon as possible

I filled in the blanks as per excersize 4, but I decided to also try to translate the sentences.

1. Maaşımın çoğunu her ay kira için ayırıyorum.
Every month I set aside most of my salary for rent.

2. Ailem çok nezih bir semtte oturuyor.
My family lives in a [decent?] district/neighbourhood.

3. Ev sahibi fazla depozito istiyor.
The landlord wants a big deposit.

4. Sence ısınmak için merkezî sistem mi yoksa kombi mi
kullanmalıyım?
Do you think we should use a central heating system or a combi boiler for heating?

5. Taşınmak için güzel bir muhit arıyorum.
I am looking for a nice neighbourhood to move to.

6. Kaç metrekare bir ev istiyorsun?
How many metres squared do you want the house to be?

7. İş yerimden güzel bir manzara görünüyor.
There is [can be seen] a nice view at my workplace.

8. Yarın kira sözleşmesi için emlakçı ile buluşacağız.
Tomorrow we will meet with the real estate agent about for the rental agreement.

9. Bir an önce taşınmak için acele ediyoruz.
We are in a hurry to move as soon as possible.

Example sentences

Hâlâ aynı işi yapıyoruz ama düzen farklı sadece.
So, we're still doing the same stuff, just in a different order.

O çocuğu en yüksek fiyat verene sattı.
She sold her kid to the highest bidder [lit. giver of the highest price].

Maaşı kötü ama bunu işe başlarken de biliyordum
The pay is bad but I knew that when I started working.

Takımı ikiye ayırıyorum.
I am splitting the team.

Sonra ısınmak için yine yatağa girdi.
Then [entered] back in bed to warm up.

Bu lanet adamların bir an önce çıkmasını istiyorum, bir an önce!
I need those bloody people out and I mean now!

I think we can probably leave page 9 for next week or when I'm back in August, unless you're really burning to go through it yourself, vijay. :) I already have 44 cards from this week. I want to have 1000 cards by January, so I'm almost on track (this level of work + one class a week should be enough).

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-09, 0:51

I'm finally actually doing what I was supposed to be doing for this week since I finally have the day off (and will be busy tomorrow)! :D

New words for me from "Şımarık" (yes, there are a lot of them even though I've known of this song since I think 1999? :P):
1
[...]
çatlatmak - to crack, split

sakız - chewing gum
şişirmek - to blow, inflate
arsız - cheeky[1]

[1] ar = shame (feeling of shame)

The third line is kind of rhythmically weird to me, which might be why I always forget that the second word in it is sakızı. :P I think sakızı ağzında might fit the rhythm better (three syllables followed by four, sa-kı-zı a-ğ-zın-da, like the first line, which has two syllables followed by three).

Also:

takmak - to attach
orta - middle (these are probably both words I've encountered before, especially the second one, but I don't remember them :P)
2
vurulmak - to be struck, hit
sığmak - to fit (into something)

Also:

erkeklik - masculinity
3
kaş - eyebrow

Also:

çekmek - to pull
sürmek - to drive

I know this word, but this actually is completely unrelated to the sürme here, which is a Persian loanword meaning kohl (in South Asian languages also, it's called (some variation of) either surmah or kājal. In Malayalam, we say [suˈruma] AFAIK). I didn't know this usage of sürme until now.
dudak - lip

Didn't know this one, either.
kıpkırmızı - bright red, scarlet

This one I do know from a Learning Practical Turkish page on using reduplication as an intensifier on a closed set of adjectives. It's pronounced with stress on the first syllable IIRC.
kırıtmak - behave flirtatiously
utanma - shame (=ar?)

I get that impression, too, that they're the same.
inat - stubbornness
sırıtmak - to grin

4
ele güne - ???
rezil olmak - to be disgraced (rezil etmek - to make a fool of someone)

5
fındıkkıran - nutcracker (fındık - hazelnut;

I forgot that fındık meant specifically 'hazelnut'. :P Did you mean to include kırmak - to break (or to hurt someone's feelings!), too? :)

For ele güne, I had also found this to back up what voron says. :D

Also:
seni gidi! - you naughty (guy/girl/kid/whatever)!
yılan - snake
delik - hole
püskül - tassle
belâ - trouble
kader - fate
yakalamak - to catch

I really should know yakalamak but forgot, I guess (the one example that comes to mind for me from learningpracticalturkish.com of non-SOV word order is yakala o hırsızı! 'catch that thief!'). Also:

püsküllü bela - great nuisance
Biz böyle mi gördük babamızdan
We weren't raised that way
Is like this [interrogative particle] we saw "from" our father

I guess I'd translate this as something like 'is this the sort of thing we saw from our parents' days?'.
EDIT: It's because it's actually this version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zLZ6Mc0VL0

That's pretty much the version I heard on learnpracticalturkish.com. :lol:
LangMedia: Cultural Activities

Vocabulary
olay - event, case
etkinlik - activity, event
örneğin - for example

Didn't know any of these (sort of knew olay and definitely know örnek, but not this use of örneğin)
özellikle - especially

I knew this but not özel in the sense of 'private'.
sergi - exhibit
açısından - with regards to

mevcut - existing, present (from Arabic موجود mawjuud)

Didn't know any of these, either, nor did I know:

değerli - dear (formal but kind or endearing term of address), valuable
değer - value
değmek - to be worthy of; incidentally, also 'to touch' or 'to dock', but with a different etymology that's apparently related to takmak!

I learned hemen hemen a few years ago by struggling to learn to use it properly in the Cümle Oyunu thread on this forum. :P

As for the exercises on p. 8:

Daha önce hiç taşındınız mı? - Evet, iki kere taşındım!
Aşağıdaki nedenlerin taşınmak için bir etkisi oldu mu? - Evet, hepsi eninde sonunda değişti.
Taşınırken ne tür problemler ile karşılaşabilirsiniz? - Aslında bilmiyorum, yirmiüç yıllardır taşınmadım. :P

Oh wait, we're just doing #4? Okay! :D

1. Maaşımın çoğunu her ay kira için ayırıyorum.
2. Ailem çok nezih bir semtte oturuyor.
3. Ev sahibi fazla depozito istiyor.
4. Sence ısınmak için kombi mi yoksa merkezî sistem mi tercih
etmeliyim?
5. Taşınmak için güzel bir muhit arıyorum.
6. Kaç metrekarelik bir ev arıyorsunuz?
7. İş yerimin güzel deniz manzarası var.
8. Yarın kira sözleşmesi için emlakçı ile buluşacağız.
9. Bir an önce taşınmak için acele ediyoruz.

EDIT:
Spor yapmaya yapmaya kilo aldım
I put on weight [due to not?] playing sport

Dersine çalışmayarak sınavdan kötü not aldı.
I got a bad note from the exact [due to not studying for the class?]

From the exam :D
And yeah, those sound right to me. :)
Aşağıdaki nedenlerin taşınmak için bir etkisi oldu mu?
Was it the effect of one of these reasons for moving?

That is such a weird sentence to me. Idk, I think I'd rather combine both sentences. :P

Most of the words listed on this page are new for me, as are all of the ones you listed (well, I've encountered at least a few of those before, but I didn't remember them). And yeah, I'm fine with waiting before going on to p. 9. :)
EDIT2:
2. Ailem çok nezih bir semtte oturuyor.
My family lives in a [decent?] district/neighbourhood.

I'm inclined to agree with you for this one, too, i.e. I also think it means something like 'decent'.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-09, 8:36

vijayjohn wrote:The third line is kind of rhythmically weird to me, which might be why I always forget that the second word in it is sakızı. :P I think sakızı ağzında might fit the rhythm better (three syllables followed by four, sa-kı-zı a-ğ-zın-da, like the first line, which has two syllables followed by three).


Yeah, it sounds like:

Ağzın da-sakızı şişirip şişirip

Took me a while to properly sing along to that part. :lol:

orta - middle (these are probably both words I've encountered before, especially the second one, but I don't remember them :P)


I remember this one from another video from the same section of LangMedia we were looking at.

http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/fileu ... n_m1e2.pdf

Daha orta yaşlılar bazen restorantları ya da onların yaşlarına hitap eden gece klüplerini tercih edebilir.
People who are more middle aged sometimes prefer restaturants or night clubs
that are designed for people of their age.


I forgot that fındık meant specifically 'hazelnut'. :P Did you mean to include kırmak - to break (or to hurt someone's feelings!), too? :)


kırmak is actually one of the first words I learned in Turkish. I'm pretty sure it's in the Duolingo course somewhere.

yılan - snake


I knew yılan from this song:

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=51574&start=20#p1093572

Gül gibi uyuyan yılanı uyandırdın
You woke up the peacefully sleeping snake

I really should know yakalamak but forgot, I guess (the one example that comes to mind for me from learningpracticalturkish.com of non-SOV word order is yakala o hırsızı! 'catch that thief!').


I added this to my cards along with the following sentence:

Tanrım, hırsız gibi gireceğiz, değil mi?
Oh, my God, we're going to break in, aren't we?

I guess I'd translate this as something like 'is this the sort of thing we saw from our parents' days?'.


Sounds about right.

Aşağıdaki nedenlerin taşınmak için bir etkisi oldu mu? - Evet, hepsi eninde sonunda değişti.
Taşınırken ne tür problemler ile karşılaşabilirsiniz? - Aslında bilmiyorum, yirmiüç yıllardır taşınmadım. :P


I don't understand what you mean by Evet, hepsi eninde sonunda değişti. "yes, everything eventually changed"?

I've added the following sentences to my cards:

Well, the sooner you find them, the better.
Eninde sonunda en iyilerini bulacaksınız.

We will arrive when we arrive, and we will have the weapons we have.
Eninde sonunda oraya gideceğiz ve eninde sonunda silahlarımızı kullanacağız.

I haven't been happy in seven years.
Yedi yıldır mutlu olmadım.

From the exam :D


And also grade not note. I just immediately understood it because of Catalan. :lol:

And he got (aldı, not aldım).

I've added these two sentences to my cards. Now I have 51 cards! So definitely on track. :D

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-07-09, 8:40

Saim wrote:Ağzın da-sakızı şişirip şişirip

Hey guys, if you want to have a bit more fun with this song, don't forget there is this:
https://lyricstraining.com/play/tarkan/ ... H4Vxsil4A4
(doesn't work well on the phone, PC only)

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-09, 8:50

voron wrote:Hey guys, if you want to have a bit more fun with this song, don't forget there is this:
https://lyricstraining.com/play/tarkan/ ... H4Vxsil4A4
(doesn't work well on the phone, PC only)


Awesome, thanks!

By the way, would you mind telling me if you think these English translations are correct?:

Spor yapmaya yapmaya kilo aldım
I put on weight due to not playing sport

Dersine çalışmayarak sınavdan kötü not aldı.
S/he got a bad grade on [from] the exam due to not studying [for] the class

Eninde sonunda oraya gideceğiz ve eninde sonunda silahlarımızı kullanacağız.
Eventually we will arrive and eventually we will use our weapons. (The original translation on glosbe is We will arrive when we arrive, and we will have the weapons we have., but I feel like it's not literal enough for learning purposes.)

Eninde sonunda en iyilerini bulacaksınız. (This one kind of confuses me.)
The sooner you find them, the better.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-07-09, 8:59

vijayjohn wrote:Aşağıdaki nedenlerin taşınmak için bir etkisi oldu mu? - Evet, hepsi eninde sonunda değişti.

Your answer seems off. They are asking, literally: Was there an influence of any reasons below /on you/ to move? (i.e. influenced your decision to move?) And you're answering that everything changed.

Taşınırken ne tür problemler ile karşılaşabilirsiniz? - Aslında bilmiyorum, yirmi üç yıllardır taşınmadım.

Using plural with numbers. :nono:

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-07-09, 9:13

Saim wrote:By the way, would you mind telling me if you think these English translations are correct?:

Spor yapmaya yapmaya kilo aldım
I put on weight due to not playing sport

Dersine çalışmayarak sınavdan kötü not aldı.
S/he got a bad grade on [from] the exam due to not studying [for] the class

Correct.

The '-arak' and '-ya...-ya' participles are essentially synonymous, with the '-ya...-ya' being a bit more emphatic (just like every reduplication construction in Turkish is); so you can as well say 'Spor yapmayarak kilo aldım'.

Eninde sonunda oraya gideceğiz ve eninde sonunda silahlarımızı kullanacağız.
Eventually we will arrive and eventually we will use our weapons.

Correct.

Eninde sonunda en iyilerini bulacaksınız. (This one kind of confuses me.)
The sooner you find them, the better.

This translation seems off. It means: Eventually, you'll find your best (the best of them all).

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-09, 11:44

Teşekkürler!

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-09, 12:23

voron wrote:Your answer seems off. They are asking, literally: Was there an influence of any reasons below /on you/ to move? (i.e. influenced your decision to move?) And you're answering that everything changed.

Yeah, that's because I misunderstood the question. :silly: I thought they were asking whether moving influenced the reasons, or something. I was confused. :lol:

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-09, 15:42

Oh, also, what do we do next? Since you picked the text for Urdu, should I pick a Turkish bar song this time? :lol: Or do you want to pick another song or something? Maybe we could also do this from LangMedia (i.e. the video in the middle here), or part of it if it's too long for one week? And of course we can still go through at least p. 9 of the same textbook.

If you'd like, we could make this particular assignment longer than one week, too. We could also do more than one song etc. if you think this is too little to do for our next assignment (omg I make it sound like homework :P).

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-10, 8:15

vijayjohn wrote:Oh, also, what do we do next? Since you picked the text for Urdu, should I pick a Turkish bar song this time? :lol: Or do you want to pick another song or something? Maybe we could also do this from LangMedia (i.e. the video in the middle here), or part of it if it's too long for one week? And of course we can still go through at least p. 9 of the same textbook.


I don't have as much time this week so maybe we can do p.9, half of Music for Many Tastes and revision of one of the songs I already did in my Turkish log, and leave it at that?


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