Naava wrote:What do you think, should we also include the shorter forms of numbers in Finnish? They're used when you need to count something fast - not really standard language, but everyone knows them.
I could also "translate" these lists into Southern Ostrobothnian but I'm not sure if it's needed. It wouldn't help in studying because nobody can study a dialect without a standardized form, but maybe people would like to compare these lists. How interested are you in language variation?
Naava wrote:Short forms #2:
1 = y(y)
2 = ka(a)
3 = ko(o)
4 = ne
5 = vi
6 = ku(u)
7 = se(i) / see
8 = kas(i)
9 = ys(i)
Linguaphile wrote:In Estonian I've heard ük, kak, kolm, ne or üü, kaa, koo, nee used a few times, for example at the beginning of a song where the music starts after "ne(e)". I don't know any shortened "counting" numbers beyond that and don't know how common it is in Estonian. For all I know the use of it in songs was inspired by the Finnish usage, but, at least, it seems it does exist in Estonian too.
There are also shortened pronunciations of numbers used in fast speech of any kind, such as kakskend (for kakskümmend), kolmkend or kolkend or kolgend (for kolmkümmend), öeksand (for üheksakümmend) and so on. Those are not just used for counting, they are used in fast speech in any context, but not in writing. So you can end up with kaeksada kolgend öeksa for kaheksasada kolmkümmend üheksa (839) and so on.
Naava wrote:I didn't know yy/üü, kaa, koo, nee is used in Estonian. Cool!
Naava wrote:There are also shortened pronunciations of numbers used in fast speech of any kind, such as kakskend (for kakskümmend), kolmkend or kolkend or kolgend (for kolmkümmend), öeksand (for üheksakümmend) and so on. Those are not just used for counting, they are used in fast speech in any context, but not in writing. So you can end up with kaeksada kolgend öeksa for kaheksasada kolmkümmend üheksa (839) and so on.
Didn't know this either. I don't think this happens in Finnish (except with 20, 30, 40 etc), so 839 would be kaheksa(n)sataa kolkyt(ä) yheksä(n) in spoken Finnish (vs kahdeksansataa kolmekymmentä yhdeksän in standard Finnish, although it should be written without the spaces. Never miss a chance to make a word longer than is necessary!) The spoken Finnish numbers are almost identical to Estonian numbers, so I wonder why they're not shortened in fast speech... Or maybe they are, but I'm just very deaf in this case.
Linguaphile wrote:Not just numbers, a lot of things are shortened. The -nud participles become -nd and some other sounds are dropped or shortened. Käinud becomes käind, olnud becomes olnd, tähendab becomes tändab, mõtlesin becomes mõtsin, lihtsalt becomes lihsat, tegelikult becomes tegelt. One of my Estonian textbooks has some of these in it and it's funny how you don't really hear them until learning about them, and then it's like "ooh, that really is what I'm hearing!" Otherwise your brain just fills in the missing sounds and thinks they were there.
That's cool that Finnish numbers in spoken language are almost the same as Estonian. I didn't realize that. Nothing ever teaches spoken Finnish, so.....
Naava wrote:Hey there look I did a thing! This is what happens when I have stuff to do and I start to procrastinate... But it was kinda fun and it made me think about things that I usually don't pay any attention to, like does this word even have abessive case?? I'll probably come back if and when I find mistakes or other forms than what I've listed here.
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