Eesti muusika / Estonian music

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Linguaphile
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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-11-09, 15:31

► Show Spoiler


hajoseszter wrote:I'm unsure about "päivä/päevä", how should I decide which one is "better"?

Päivä is Kuusalu dialect, päevä is closer to Standard Estonian. (Modern standard Estonian actually would be "päev(a)" though).
It's the same with õe; ue is Kuusalu dialect, õe is Standard Estonian.
So you can decide for yourself which one is "better" for you.
I would recommend that if you use päivä also use ue, as both are the "stronger" dialect forms; if you use päevä also use õe, as both are closer to Standard Estonian.
Changing it completely to Standard Estonian is not an option because the syllable count would be wrong.

hajoseszter wrote:In "pardi" and "kõrge" I hear something between "r" and "d"/"g" (also little bit in "harju"), like a schwa or anything - why is that? What's the name of this phenomenon? I've heard this in many other songs in many languages.

I think that here it is just the way /r/ sounds before a consonant. I don't really hear it as a schwa. I think I know the phenomenon you are talking about, though (I think I've heard it more often in Northern Saami?). It is just a feature of the phonology when certain consonants occur next to each other. I don't know what it is called, or whether what I've heard with Northern Saami is the same phenomenon you are hearing here.

hajoseszter wrote:Could you add punctuation marks to the lyrics?

I did above at the top of this post, but this is another thing there may easily be disagreement about. I just added commas where the parallelism continued and a period where it moved to a different idea. Often lyrics to songs like this are written without pronunciation (and probably with good reason!) You can hear from the song that intonation is no help in determining punctuation here, and each line is its own independent unit; technically I think you could put a period after just about every line. The only exception might be the last three lines, where the negator "ei" of the line that starts with "Et see tee...." carries over into the next three lines as well so it's useful to mark them as one sentence.

hajoseszter wrote:It might be an old and/or dialectical song so I understand it's not easy to find the right words and to translate it...
BTW do you know which dialect is this?

Kuusalu


hajoseszter wrote:Please-please add a revised translation of how now it is. I've checked all the discussion about it and really appreciate all the nice footnotes, but a bit confused, too. :D

So here's my attempt - if I haven't missed something as well:

Let's make joy in the evening,
Joyful noise as the sun goes down / day goes [away].
The joy is heard all the way to Hiiumaa,
The sound to the edges of our land,
Hiiumaa fir trees glow,
Our land's birches echo,
Our alders resound widely,
Harju's aspens turn green,
Muhu's pines roar.
For the joy of our girls,
From sister's gentle shouts,
From brother's turning of verse.

Our two poor children,
A couple sons like ducklings.
We make joy along the road,
Joy along the road, pleasure in the land,
Make the forest's tall trees rumble,
Make the wide fields into song,
So that this road will not harm us,
The wide fields will not disparage us,
The forest's tall tree will not speak ill.


hajoseszter wrote:"kõmada": 'thunder' or 'muffled or distant rumble' would be better?

It's been my experience that Estonian words for sound do not "map" precisely with English equivalents. Anyway, to me thunder often [i]can[/b] be heard as a "distant rumble" so they do not seem all that different to me, although "thunder" is sometimes the word used for a much louder noise. So I've changed it to "rumble" in the translation.


hajoseszter wrote:As I see these kind of songs mostly performed by soloist and choir, or at least by two person. When this is sung by one person, some syllables are missing, as Linguaphile have mentioned, too - I thought it is in the style of their singing. I'm not sure if it is because of breathing, or not in all cases. Mari Kalkun and Maarja Nuut also do this, and it seemed to me that they have enough air to sing the missing parts also but they did this on a reason which I don't know. Could it be a tradition to sing like this if you're singing it alone? /Should I follow this?/ (Or a performance of these kind of songs could not be traditional with one person at all? :D)

I have heard it done both ways. It's traditional for there to be more than one singer, and I think sometimes when there was only one singer they did not sing the repetition, just the single line. I've heard it done that way too. So, I think you can do it either way.

If you want to hear an entirely different way of singing this song, here you go - it has most of the lines from the first stanza, but not the second stanza:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Y7lMiDOG8

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ainurakne
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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby ainurakne » 2020-11-09, 19:45

Linguaphile wrote:I would recommend that if you use päivä also use ue, as both are the "stronger" dialect forms; if you use päevä also use õe, as both are closer to Standard Estonian.
Well, if you really want to aim for the coastal dialect (the part of the language that is most often considered the Kuusalu sub-dialect), then, among other things, you should remove all the õ-s from the lyrics (depending on the context, either o, a or e is usually used in place of õ) and pursue vowel harmony.

Linguaphile wrote:Changing it completely to Standard Estonian is not an option because the syllable count would be wrong.
Well, technically one could also use archaic suffixes in Standard Estonian too, in order to keep the magic syllable count. :mrgreen:

hajoseszter wrote:Finally I've found lyrics and translation on a picture of the booklet:
...
Why are there so many differencies? Could you help me which choices are better to understand more the song?
I'll just try to translate it from scratch:

hajoseszter wrote:Veere, veere päevakene,
Roll, roll sun/day

In Finnic languages, päev/päiv usually means both: day and sun. Or you could just think of it as the two aspects of a single phenomenon.

Standard Estonian päike(ne) (the sun) is likely a shortened form of *päivükkainen - conforming to standard Estonian päevakene (or päevukene) - so, I'm thinking the one that is meant in this song is most likely the sun.

hajoseszter wrote:veere päeva vetta mööda,
roll, sun/day, along the water,

hajoseszter wrote:lase kase latvu mööda.
slide (or descend) along the tree-tops of the birch trees.

Or move over the birch trees by brushing their tree-tops.

hajoseszter wrote:Veere sinna, kus su veli,
Roll to where is your brother,

hajoseszter wrote:sõõri sinna, kus su sõsar.
roll to where is your sister.

I have not heard the verb sõõrima before, but I'm assuming it's the same as veerema. In any way, it should mean moving by rolling, rotating or doing circles.

hajoseszter wrote:Seal sind hellalt hoietakse,
There you will be held gently,

Or it could also mean: There you will be gently tended or taken care of

hajoseszter wrote:kahe käe peal kannetakse,
(there you will be) carried on two hands,

hajoseszter wrote:pannaks padjule magama,
(there you will be) put to sleep onto pillows,

hajoseszter wrote:hõbesängi hõljumaie,
(there you will be put) "into the floating state" into a silver bed,

"to put into the floating state" - I just don't know how to translate this better. :lol:
Probably just means that the bed is so soft that one would feel like they are floating while being in this bed.

hajoseszter wrote:kullast sängi puhkamaie.
(there you will be put) to rest into a golden bed.
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-11-09, 21:39

Why are there so many differences? Could you help me which choices are better to understand more the song?

I will try to go through it line-by-line and explain what I can (in each section: Estonian version, then the two translations one after the other).

Veere, veere päevakene,
Roll, roll along, oh Day,
Roll, roll, dear sun,

"Päev" in modern Estonian means only "day", but in archaic language it also means "sun". (In modern Estonian "sun" is now "päike" or "päikene".)
"-ke" and "-kene" are two versions of the same diminutive suffix. In the song, it is added to "päev" to form "päevakene". As a diminutive, it's hard to translate - it can indicate dearness or smallness or simply addressing something in an affectionate way. "Dear sun/day", "little sun/day", "oh sun/day".
It has also become an intrinsic part of the modern word for "sun" - päike/päikene has this diminutive suffix fossilized onto it. In modern Estonian, you can't refer to the sun without using the diminutive suffix. This developed from the archaic form you see in the song - päevakene.
The reason it can be either one here (sun/day) is because it used to be believed that each day had a new sun. It was not the same sun appearing each day. The new sun rose from the east and then it disappeared over the horizon in the west; below the horizon in the west was a collection of suns, the "brothers" and "sisters" of the current day's sun, resting and waiting for the next ones to join them there. This is basically what the song is about.

veere päeva vetta mööda,
roll all along the water
roll, sun, along the water,

veere = roll
päeva = day/sun (as explained above)
vetta mööda = along the water

lase kase latvu mööda.
fly high above the birch trees.
go down below the tree tops.

It's hilarious that these ended up opposites in the translations but I can see how.
lase = let, shoot, set out
kase latvu = tops of birch trees
mööda = along, around
So it is "set out along the birch tree tops" or "shoot along the birch tree tops" or something along those lines. I think the first version is translating it from the perspective of the singer: the birch tree tops are up high and the sun is in the sky, "high above". The second version is translating it from the perspective of the sun: the height of the tree tops is fairly low for the sun, and it is setting, so soon it will be even lower, "down below" where the sun normally is in daytime. Maybe this explains why they are so different: different perspectives of whether the tree tops are "high above" or "down below".

Veere sinna, kus su veli,
For your brother he is waiting,
Roll to where your brother rests.

veere = roll
sinna = to there
kus su veli = where your brother [is]
Again this comes from the idea that each day has a new sun and that the old ones disappear to rest or wait below the horizon as each day a new one joins them there. The translations are attempting to explain that a bit, even though the Estonian version simply says "roll to there, where your brother is".

sõõri sinna, kus su sõsar.
go on, where your sister's staying.
around to where your sister sleeps.

Sõõr means a circle or ring and so sõõri would be a verb related to that. I believe it's basically used here as a synonym for "roll".
sinna = to there
kus su sõsar = where your sister [is]
Both of the translations also kept the alliteration of the Estonian version: sõõri sinna, kus su sõsar; go on, where your sister's staying; around to where your sister sleeps.

Seal sind hellalt hoietakse,
You'll be held ever so softly,
There you will be tended tenderly,

seal = there
sind = you
hellalt = dearly, tenderly, lovingly, gently
hoidma = keep, hold
The monolingual dictionaries I checked don't have "hellalt hoidma" as a set phrase, but the Estonian-English ones translate it as "to baby" and "to cradle". They are again using alliteration like the Estonian version does:Seal sind hellalt hoietakse; You'll be held ever so softly; There you will be tended tenderly."

kahe käe peal kannetakse,
carried on two arms so sweetly,

There is no "sweetly" in Estonian here.
kahe käe peal = on two arms
kannetakse = is carried

panaks padjule magama,
there you'll sleep on fluffy pillows,
put upon the pillow to sleep,

pannaks = would put
padjule = onto pillows
magama = to sleep
Again here the second translation has some alliteration that mirrors the alliteration in the original: pannaks padjule magama; put upon the pillow to sleep.


hõbesängi hõljumaie,
there you'll swing in silver cradles,
set upon a bed of shiny silver,

hõbesängi = silver bed, silver place for sleeping
hõljuma = to float, to soar
Again here the translations include alliteration, as does the original: hõbesängi hõljumaie; there you'll swing in silver cradles; set upon a bed of shiny silver, so this has an influence on the wording of the translation.

kullast sängi puhkamaie
you will rest in golden cradles.
to fall into a fine bed of gold.

kullane = golden
säng = bed, sleeping place
puhkama(ie) = to rest
Again alliteration in the second translation: to fall into a fine bed of gold.

Okay - I wrote most of that a couple of hours ago and saved it as a draft as I had not finished. Actually I had nearly finished and then lost some of it and had to re-do it! Now I see that Ainurakne has already answered. I'm going to go ahead and post it, later I'll look at his reply and see what differences we have. Hopefully we are not so different that it will make things even more confusing again. Anyway, mine is more addressing the translations you already posted, whereas it looks like Ainurakne provided his own translation, so maybe between those two things you will find what you need.

Edit: now that I've read through Ainurakne's, to me it seems we said much the same thing. Ainurakne's explanation of päevakene is I think better than mine, but I don't think we contradict each other either, he just explained it better. And I'm delighted that Ainurakne hasn't heard the verb sõõrima either; it was driving me crazy that I didn't know it and couldn't find it anywhere (not even the dictionary of dialects!). But it seems we came to the same conclusion about its meaning given the context. As for the original translations that Eszter posted, I think Ainurakne's version is closer to the second one than to the first one, at least in parts, but still not the same as either one, for the reasons that have been explained. It truly is difficult to translate this type of thing, and that doesn't mean it can't be translated, but does mean that basically no two people are likely to translate it in exactly the same way. Often the words have multiple meanings and multiple translations and poetry has multiple interpretations. All of this leads to variation when you try to translate it. Ainurakne's version sounds quite good to me.


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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby aaakknu » 2021-02-01, 0:51

Здайся на Господа у твоїх справах, і задуми твої здійсняться. (Приповідки 16, 3)
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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby aaakknu » 2021-02-01, 0:53

Здайся на Господа у твоїх справах, і задуми твої здійсняться. (Приповідки 16, 3)
TAC 2019

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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-02-26, 14:57

Vanasõnade laul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN8jFt2vb9s

Kuidas lükkad, nõnda läheb = how you push, so it goes
Kuidas tõmbad, nõnda tuleb = how you pull, so it comes
Mida külvad, seda lõikad = What you sow, you reap
Kus on häda kõige suurem, seal on abi kõige lähem = Where trouble is greatest, help is nearest
Pole halba ilma heata = There is no bad without good
Kõik ei mahu marjamaale, muist peab jääma karjamaale = Not everyone can fit in the berry-land (desirable place), the others must stay in the pasture
Igal linnul oma laul = To each bird its own song
Pada sõimab katelt, aga ühed mustad mõlemad = The pot curses the kettle, but both are black
Kus on suitsu, seal tuld = Where there is smoke there's fire
Iga asi omal ajal = To every thing its own time
Kes kannatab, see kaua elab = He who suffers lives long
Kellel janu, sellel jalad = He who has thirst has legs
Pime kana leiab tera = A blind chicken finds grain
Kes otsib, see leiab = Who seeks shall find

Kassid läinud, hiirtel pidu = When the cats are away, the mice have a celebration
Häda ajab härja kaevu = Necessity drives the ox to the well
Põrsast kotis ei osteta = Don't buy a piglet in a bag
Olgu hunt või olgu karu, igal ühel oma aru = Be it wolf or bear, each has its own understanding
Enne mune, siis kaaguta = First lay eggs, then cluck
Enne mõtle, siis ütle = First think, then speak

Ela ise ja lase teistel elada = Live yourself and let others live
Kellel leiba süüakse, selle laulu lauldakse = Whose bread is eaten, his song is sung
Tühi kott ei seisa püsti = An empty bag doesn't stand up straight
Uhkus ajab upakile, ahnus käima käpukile = Pride sets you upright, greed drives you to your hands and needs
Suur tükk ajab suu lõhki = A big chunk breaks the mouth
Hundid söönud, lambad terved = Wolves have eaten, the lambs are healthy
Hommik on õhtust targem = Morning is wiser than evening
Rumalpea on jalgadele nuhtlus = A foolish head is a pain to the feet
Vaga vesi, sügav põhi = Still water, deep bottom
Tarkus tuleb tasapisi = Wisdom comes gradually
Ära hõiska enne õhtut = Don't shout before evening
Kõik ei ole kuld, mis hiilgab = Not all is gold that shines
Ära usu enne, kui näed = Don't believe until you see
Tasa sõuad, kaugele jõuad = Row gently, travel far
Kes püüad kõigest väest saab üle igast mäest = Who tries with all his might will overcome all mountains
Pill tuleb pika ilu peale = Tears follow a long period of joy
Kes teisele auku kaevab, see ise sisse kukub = Who digs a hole for another falls into it himself
Paha siga, mitu viga = Angry pig, many mistakes
Kärss kärnas, maa külmund = Scabby snout, frozen land

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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby hajoseszter » 2021-03-02, 11:27

Hi dear all, I'm back with some questions.

1. Here's two versions of Kaera​-​Jaan sung by Sille Ilves, the text is included - my request is an English translation.
https://silleilves.bandcamp.com/track/kaera-jaan

Text of first version:
► Show Spoiler


Text of second version:
► Show Spoiler


2. Kurb laulik sung by haldjas. The lyrics is included (please correct, if there's mistakes), I would like an English translation here, too. Also translate the "title" of the song, and this from the description: "(Kolga-jaani, kirjakeelde seatud, Veljo Tormise uuest regilaulikust)"
https://soundcloud.com/haldjas/kurb-laulik

► Show Spoiler


And of course any other information would be interesting for me about the songs, the motifs, melodies, etc. Thank you!

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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-02, 15:35

The first two are in a non-standard southern dialect so there are some parts I'm not entirely certain about.
There is a dance by the same name (Kaera Jaan or kaerajaan) that would be danced when this is sung.

Version 1:

1. Läämi vällä Jaani kaima, liiga-liiga. = Let's go out* to see Jaan
Kas om Jaanil kahar pää, liiga-liiga. = Does Jaan have curly hair?

2. Sis omma kesvä keerulidse, liiga-liiga. = Then the barley will be curly
Kaara katsõ kandilidse, liiga-liiga. = the oats will have two angles

3. Jaan see tull'e põldu möödä, liiga-liiga.= Jann comes by the field,
Kõnde kullast kondu möödä, liiga-liiga. = walks by the golden pasture**.

4. Ligi tõie liia õnnõ, liiga-liiga. = He brought a lot of luck
Kaasa tõie karja õnnõ, liiga-liiga. = Brought with him luck for the herds

5. Rüä tõie rüpüga, liiga-liiga. = brought rye in his arms***
Kaara tõie kaindlõn, liiga-liiga. = brought oats in his arms

Version 2

Oi Kaera-Jaan, oi Kaera-Jaan, = Oh, Oat-Jaan, oh, Oat-Jaan
oi karga välla kaema. = oh, leap out to see the field*
Kas om kesvä keerulidse, kaara katsõ kandilidse? = Is the barley curly, the oats two-angled?
Liiga-liiga, liiga-llaa, liiga-liiga, liiga-llaa. = liiga-liiga….

Oi Kaera-Jaan, oi Kaera-Jaan, = Oh, Oat-Jaan, oh, Oat-Jaan
oi karga välla kaema.. = oh, leap out to see the field
Jaan see tull'e põldu möödä, = Jaan comes by the field
kõnde kullast kondu möödä.= walks by the golden pasture**
Liiga-liiga, liiga-llaa, liiga-liiga, liiga-llaa. = liiga-liiga….

Oi Kaera-Jaan, oi Kaera-Jaan, = Oh, Oat-Jaan, oh, Oat-Jaan
oi karga välla kaema. = oh, leap out to see the field
Jaan tõi pikä piimapütü, madaligu võiupunna. = Jaan brought a tall milk jug, a short lump** of butter
Liiga-liiga, liiga-llaa, liiga-liiga, liiga-llaa. = liiga-liiga….

Oi Kaera-Jaan, oi Kaera-Jaan, = Oh, Oat-Jaan, oh, Oat-Jaan
oi karga välla kaema.. = oh, leap out to see the field
Jaan see tull'e põldu möödä, = Jaan comes by the field
kõnde kullast kondu möödä.= walks by the golden pasture**
Liiga-liiga, liiga-llaa, liiga-liiga, liiga-llaa. = liiga-liiga….

*vällä (välla in the second version) can mean either "outside" or "to the field".
**kond (kondu) is a pasture at the edge of a river, or an area of poor soil
***The words for carrying things in one's arms don't translate well because the English term "in his arms" refers to body parts while the Estonian terms refer to the spaces between them So in English both of these end up "in his arms" but in Estonian they are slightly different. The first refers to rüpp, which is usually translated as bosom or lap; it refers to the space in front of that area. The second one refers to kaenla, which is usually translated as underarm; it refers to the space between your body and your arms.
****võiupunna refers to a pund, which is a unit of measure, but I'm not sure how to translate it.


Below I've also modified the lyrics because yours had some slashes (looks like marking syllables) in some of the words, which shouldn't normally be there in written language.

Kurb laulik = sad singer
Kolga-Jaani = the name of the place the song is from, a borough in central Estonia
Kirjakeelde seatud = set (translated) into standard written language
Veljo Tormise uuest regilaulikust = from Veljo Tormis's new collection of folk songs

Kes mind kuuleb laulevada, = Whoever hears me singing,
laulevada, laskevada, = Singing, letting loose,
see ütleb ilul olema, = They say I must be happy,
rõõmupäevida pidama, = Celebrating a joyful day,
lustilaulu laulemaie! = Singing a merry song!

Ma laulan läbi murede, = I sing through my worries,
läbi leinatse südame. = Through a mourning heart.
Suu laulab, süda muretseb, = The mouth sings, the heart worries,
silmad vetta veeretavad, = The eyes shed water,
pale laseb laine'eida, = The cheeks shed waves of tears,
kulmud kullatilkemeida. = The brows shed golden droplets.

Vesi silmist veerenekse: = The water from my eyes rolls:
silmist veereb palgileni, = From the eyes it rolls to the cheeks,
palgilt veereb rinnuleni, = From the cheeks it rolls to the chest,
rinnult veereb rüppejeni, = From the chest it rolls to the lap,
rüpest veereb põlvileni, = From the lap it rolls to the knees,
põlvilt veereb säärileni, = From the knees it rolls to the shins,
säärilt labajalgadelle, = From the shins to the feet,
labajalult varba'alle, = From the feet to the toes,
varba alt maha vajukse. = From my toes it sinks down [into the ground].

Sealt said jõed jooksemaie, = From there rivers got to flowing,
allikad harunemaie*, = Springs branched out,
kaevud kuivije külaje. = Wells into dry villages.
Sealt saab küla karjal juua = From them the village herds can drink,
ja mu venna veistel juua, = My brother's cattle can drink,
valla varssadel ujuda = The foals can swim
minu vaese silmavetta, = In my poor tears,
pale lastud laine'eida, = The waves from my cheeks,
kulmu kullatilkemeida. = The golden droplets from my brow.

*harunemaie can be pronounced arunemaie or harunemaie. Arunemaie is better here because it gives it follows "allikad" (so it has alliteration).

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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Prantsis » 2021-03-04, 1:00

Brigita Murutar ja Richard Murutar - Puhu tuul ja tõuka paati
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0hQYm9-HBE
► Show Spoiler

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Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby hajoseszter » 2021-03-09, 4:13

Thank you, Linguaphile!
Does this non-standard southern dialect has a name?
Your footnotes enlighten me again. :) All this little nuances in linguistic makes me delighted. (How these lights come into my mind :D)

I copied the lyrics and don't remove the slashes, because they seem to be useful for me with the singing, and I also felt a bit lazy...

There's some more questions:

1. Väikene olli, es ma näe... sung by Rēvele.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIkElHZaFLU
[Here with a Latvian song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LDnsAOjpB4]
I've searched a lot for its lyrics and found text variants in this page: http://www.folklore.ee/lepp/rouge/?sel_id=3
Which kind of Estonian is this?
Could you have a look at (and correct) the lyrics I compiled from the variants?

► Show Spoiler


I also happenned to see a fragrant of the translation, could you finish - or make a whole new one?
► Show Spoiler

Do you know any longer audio for this song?


2. Tuule sõnad (Wind Words) sung by Duo Ruut (nice recommandation).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Kpt0fFgME
I've found some lyrics and information in the comments...:
► Show Spoiler

...but not sure if it's 100% correct - I hear some words differently. And maybe the diacritics missing? And also there are some more lines at 1:57 - could you please correct and complete the text and translate it, too? What kind of Estonian is this? Do you know any archive recording for this song?


3. Siidisulist linnukene sung by Maarja Nuut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmplmxzXjHs
I've searched a lot also, but still missing the last verse - also not sure if everything is correctly written here:
► Show Spoiler


Here's a translation from the video's description - could you have a look at it, add some footnotes to make me understand more the content?
► Show Spoiler

Linguaphile
Posts: 3340
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-09, 6:30

hajoseszter wrote:Does this non-standard southern dialect has a name?

Võro dialect from Hargla (near the Latvian border), or something similar to it.

hajoseszter wrote:1. Väikene olli, es ma näe
Kui mul kuuli esä, emä.
Karjan käise, lõusen ma,
Kos oll emä matõtu:

2. Valge liiva mäe sisse,
Suure halja turba all.
Emäkene, tõsta pääd.
Mina tõsta turbakõst.

I also happenned to see a fragrant of the translation, could you finish - or make a whole new one?
1. (?)
When I heard the rain, mother,
(?)
(?)

2. White sand is on the hill,
Green peat lies bellow,
Mother, raise your head,
I shall lift the peat off you.


I was small, I didn't see it
When my mother and father died.
I went out with the herd, I found
Where mother was buried.

White sand in the hill,
Below big green peat.
Dear mother, raise your head,
I will lift the peat.


There is nothing about hearing rain. Probably the confusion in the version you found comes from the fact that the word "kuuli" is not used in standard (northern) Estonian. It is from the Võro verb "kuulma" (meaning "to die" in Võro), but in standard northern Estonian "kuulma" means "to hear".

hajoseszter wrote:Tuule sõnad (Wind Words) sung by Duo Ruut
I hear some words differently. And maybe the diacritics missing? And also there are some more lines at 1:57 - could you please correct and complete the text and translate it, too? What kind of Estonian is this? Do you know any archive recording for this song?

Kuusalu dialect from the northern coast. Normally (in the standard dialect) pohjatuuli would be põhjatuul(i) and lounast would be lõunast and so on, but in the Kuusalu dialect õ is replaced by o in these words.
The lyrics you posted seem to be a slightly different version. I think it is this one:

Mis sina puhud pohjatuuli,
idatuuli eeruteled,
kagutuuli kaaruteled,
lounatuuli lueruteled,
edeltuuli eeruteled,
läustuuli längüteled,
veskaari veereteled,
luest tuuli loiguteled.
Puhke puida, puhke maida,
Maria mageda maida.


I don't understand enough of the dialect to translate all the verbs that end with -teled, but basically it is asking "Why do you blow, north wind? Why do you swirl, east wind? and so on, from the different directions. The -teled verbs are just different ways of saying the wind is blowing, whirling, spinning, turning and so on; they are chosen for their alliteration with the different wind directions, not so much for their precise meaning. So it would be like saying "why do you wave, west wind? Why do you eddy, east wind? Why do you sway, south wind? " and so on, with the choice of verb based on the initial sound of the word for the wind direction.
"Tuul(i)" means "wind", and the different directions precede it so "põhjatuuli" means "north wind" and so on.
Põhja = north (pohja in this dialect); ida = east; kagu = southeast; lõuna (louna) = south; edel = southwest; lääs (läus) = west; vesikaar (veskaari) = west-northwest. "Vesikaar" (veskaari here) is a word that means "direction of the water" and from Kuusalu (a bit east of Tallinn) I'm guessing winds coming off the Kolge Bay of the Baltic Sea primarily arrive from that direction (the eastern side is protected by the Juminda peninsula). I may be reading too much into that, but I had some fun looking at the map and in any case, veskaari refers to a direction between northwest and west. The reason for this "odd" direction to be included is because it is important in terms of the direction of the sea.
The last lines of the song are something along the lines of "rest the trees, rest the land, Mary's sweet land" (I think here it is asking the wind to let the trees and land rest, but I'm not certain.)

hajoseszter wrote:Lendäs kullast põesa peale,
lendäs kullast põesa peale,
vale-rale-raa.

pääle rather than peale (here and elsewhere in this song), but otherwise it looks good! (This doesn't change the meaning. Peale and pääle are different forms of the same word, with peale being more common in the standard dialect, but with pääle also quite widespread.)

hajoseszter wrote:13. (?)
(?)
vale-rale-raa.

I hear it as:
Sest siis maailm loodud sai,
sest siis maailm loodud sai,
vale-rale-raa.

But I'm wondering if what I am hearing as sest might instead be some shortened/dialect form of sellest. Then it would mean "from this the world was created", which makes perfect sense. Se'st siis maailm loodud sai?

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ainurakne
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Gender: male
Country: EE Estonia (Eesti)

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby ainurakne » 2021-03-20, 11:10

Linguaphile wrote:But I'm wondering if what I am hearing as sest might instead be some shortened/dialect form of sellest. Then it would mean "from this the world was created", which makes perfect sense. Se'st siis maailm loodud sai?
Short forms ses, sest, sel, selt, seks are quite common in Standard Estonian also. At least in spoken language and literature. I don't think I have ever heard sesse, but that one doesn't sound wrong either.
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away


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