Language Course 1

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schalke81
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Postby schalke81 » 2004-08-16, 17:33

its true...it seems to be dying out.
daniel さんどちらですか。

DarkPlague07
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Postby DarkPlague07 » 2004-08-16, 21:24

Hey,

I've also found another place to study with. It's yesjapan.com. Although, I will still continue here, especially if I have questions.

Yes, hopefully we can keep up the thread.

Hajimemashite Kei. (Did I say that right? :oops: ) I understand now. :) I can help with any English things.

I would expalin to your question, but I didn't have a confidence to do it cause of my english ability.


Ok, that's pretty good. But you would say: "I would have explained your question earlier, but I was nervous because of my English ability."
You could say it the other way, but this makes more sense. I hope you understand, I can explain it if you want.


I hope you can understand.
If you notice, please correct my english

Well, you don't have to put 'can' in there. It's not a big deal, it still works, it just sounds more natural. The second part is fine. But you could say "If you notice anything wrong with my English, could you correct it?" Once again, it sounds more natural.

I really think Daniel's work is so great to study Japanese. I hope Daniel comes back, too.

The first sentence is just the way you put it together. You could say "I think Daniel's work is very good for studying Japanese." It's kind of an odd sentence either way, but it works. The second sentence is perfect, except I don't think you need the comma. Just a little grammar thing. I'm not very good with grammar, :oops: but I am very sure there is no comma there.

Don't think that your English is not good. It's very good! Just mostly a natural type of thing. :wink: English is supposed to be very difficult to learn, how long have you studied it?


I'll be back another time, bye!

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kei
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Postby kei » 2004-08-19, 13:14

hajimemashite DarkPlague07,
ogenkidesuka?
Thank you for your correcting. :D
= machigaiwo tadashitekurete arigatou.
when I was a student, I learned it for 8years.
=watashiwa gakuseinotokini 8nenkan benkyousimasita.
But I forgot most of them.
=demo, hotondo wasuretesimaimashita.
So I began to study English again 2years ago.
=sorede(dakara), 2nenmaeni futatabi(mata) eigono benkyouwo hajimetanodesu.(hajimemashita)
I think it's really tough to learn it as you wrote.
=anataga kaitatoori, minitukerunowa hontouni taihendato omoimasu.
Studying Japanese is also hard though.
=nihongowo benkyousurunomo taihendakedone.
Isshoni ganbarimashou :wink:

DarkPlague07
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Postby DarkPlague07 » 2004-08-29, 15:17

Hey,
I'm sorry I did not post earlier, school has started again and they give us a lot of work to do. Actually, I need to do my math homework for tomorrow and study for my biology quiz for Tuesday. But this is a very easy workload.
Wow, you studied for 8 years, and then another 2 years. That's a long time! I'm sure it will take me just as long to learn Japanese and Chinese. (I take Chinese class in school.) But I think Japanese is a lot easier. I don't know what ogenkidesuka? or Isshoni ganbarimashou mean, but I think I have heard them before. It is difficult to learn English that way, but it's the natural way to speak. I'm sure it's very hard to learn the natural way of speaking for any language.If you want, I can continue correcting for you, let me know.
Anyway, I should do my homework now, bye!

BobMaster0
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Postby BobMaster0 » 2004-08-29, 16:04

ogenki desuka? (お元気ですか?)
isshoni ganbarimashou. (一緒に頑張りましょう。)
The first one means basically "How are you?" That's not an exactly translation, but it's the one that makes the most sense. A standard answer would be, "Genki desu" or "Genki" in an informal situation. The question literally means something to the effect of, "Are you healthy?"
The second means "Let's do our best together." Isshoni means together and ganbarimashou comes from ganbaru. I'm sure you've heard it used with ganbatte before.
Also, what makes you say that Japanese is easier than Chinese. I've just started studying Chinese about a week ago, but there doesn't look like there will be enough hard stuff to make it more difficult that Japanese. The tone are kind of strange getting used to, but I think that will go away after a while. The other part that usually causes problems for learners is of course the characters. I don't think that will be too bad because of my Japanese background. Since I started studying Japanese last fall I've memorized about 1500 characters, so I think that knowing those will help a lot with Chinese characters. Also, in Japanese most of the characters have two or more readings where in Chinese most have only one. To me the Japanese characters are much harder to read.

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schalke81
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Postby schalke81 » 2004-08-30, 18:06

hey bobmaster, if you are talking strictly about the kanj i, tehn ok maybe it is more difficult becaus eof the teo readings (one chinese and one japanese- on and kun i think they are called) but the fact that japanese uses katakana and even hiragna *which is especially helpful for verb conjugations( and that there are no tones in japanese , i would think japanese is a lot more easier...plus the infiltration of loan words too..what makes you think chinese is easier? maybe if you hadnt learnt the 1500 kanji from japanese the chinese wouldnt be easier!!

Guest

Postby Guest » 2004-08-31, 1:28

Hey

Bobmaster- Thanks for telling me. I thought I'd heard those before.

I agree with schalke81, it would be a little easier knowing some Kanji for Chinese. But, I have studied Chinese for about 3 straight years now. My teacher said that now the non traditional and most used characters have about 3,000 characters. Even without the characters, I still think it's more difficult. There is a lot more pattern to Japanese then Chinese I think. Things make a lot more sense. Chinese is a lot more complicated. It may not seem like it right now, but it really is. It will most likely take me a few good years to get the pinyin (pronounciation) part of it. It'll take a while. It appears easy now, but it is very difficult. If you have questions about it, I can probably help.

Anyway, I'm going to go to bed now, I need to be up for school. Bye!

DarkPlague07
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Postby DarkPlague07 » 2004-08-31, 1:30

I'm sorry, that was me. I didn't know I was not logged in.

Zai Jian!

BobMaster0
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Postby BobMaster0 » 2004-08-31, 4:40

I don't necessarily think that Chinese is easier. I've barely gotten started with Chinese so I have no way of knowing yet. I was just saying that there are some aspects of Japanese that make it seem more difficult. Then again the absence of tones is certainly a plus. I haven't even gotten into the grammar or vocabulary of Chinese so I don't have anything to base a judgment on. My previous statements were mere speculation. Nonetheless, for English speakers both are certainly difficult languages.
Maybe the reason I'm looking at things the way I did is because I've gotten to a point where I feel comfortable using Japanese and internalized many of the grammatical patterns. Thinking about things in an entirely different way isn't a problem anymore and, once I had the basics down, I took in everything I could and went through my entire 100 and 200 level book by the end of my first month of 102.
I'm just hoping that I'll be able to repeat that success in Chinese and Korean.
Sorry for veering off topic.

DarkPlague07
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Postby DarkPlague07 » 2004-09-02, 20:31

da jia, hao!

Yes, both languages are quite difficult. I hope you do have as much success in other languages as well. If you would like, I would gladly practice Chinese with you! :)

zai jian!

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LJ
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Postby LJ » 2004-09-19, 12:15

Well, bit late to give the answers of exercise 1. But well, I'm pretty new here so... :)
Answers exercise 1
1. Anata wa kōhī o nomimasu
2. Inu wa neko o mimasu
3. Onna no hito wa kēkī o tabemasu
4. Kare wa konpyūta o kaimasu
5. Gakusei wa hon o yomimasu

Tell me if I make mistakes, learning a language is making mistakes :D

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LJ
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Postby LJ » 2004-09-19, 12:49

Daniel wrote:By the way, the pronunciation of the Japanese 'i' behaves exactly the same way as the 'u':

Doitash(i)te mash(i)te! - You are welcome! / Don't mention it!
H(i)to - Person

You all have the right answers to Exercise 1! Congratulations! This proves that Japanese at basic level is easy.

---------------------------------------

JAPANESE LESSON TWO

Negation

Negating a Japanese verb is very easy. Just change the last -masu to -masen:

Watashi wa cha o nomimasen.
I don't drink tea.

Vocabulary:

bīru – beer
kakimasu – write
tegami – letter
terebi – TV

EXERCISE 2: Translate into Japanese:

1. I don't drink beer.
2. The man does not write the letter.
3. The student isn't watching the TV.
4. The woman doesn't eat the cake.
5. The cat doesn't see the dog.

Types of verbs

Because of the level of politeness in the Japanese society, this is reflected in the Japanese language itself, the verbs can have certain endings to express the level of politeness. Here, I am using the -masu form because it is the simplest as well as the most polite form. In the next few lessons, however, I will teach you how to use the plain form (that is, the informal ending that is used by people in informal situation).

Desu

You have already met a few but most useful verbs above and in the previous lesson. Now you are going to meet this most useful and important verb in the Japanese language - desu. It is irregular so has to be memorised when changing its endings. This special verb means 'be'. Look at below:

Watashi wa sensei desu.
I am a teacher.

The negative form of desu is de wa arimasen or just ja arimasen:

Otoko no hito wa gakusei de wa arimasen / ja arimasen.
The man is not a student.

---

Daniel


So if understand good, the o isn't used with the verb desu 8) ?

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LJ
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Answers exercise 2 & 3

Postby LJ » 2004-09-19, 13:08

Exercise 2

1. Watashi wa bīru o nomimasen
2. Otoko no hito wa tegami o kakimasen
3. Gakusei wa terebi o mimasen
4. Onna no hito wa kēkī o tabemasen
5. Neko wa inu mimasen


Exercise 3

1. You are mechanic
2. You are not a scientist
3. My mother is a teacher
4. He isn't a doctor
5. My friend is a farmer


That was it, tell my mistakes if I made one :D

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LJ
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Answers exercise 4

Postby LJ » 2004-09-19, 13:40

Wow, 4 messages on a row (sorry! :P ). It's just so easy!

1. The farmer is from Portugal
2. The scientist is not Brazilian
3. The mechanic speaks Chinese. (It seems that after each object there must be a partical :D )
4. Is this coffee from India?
5. Isn't the student's television from Japan?

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IkimashoZ
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konnichiwa

Postby IkimashoZ » 2004-09-28, 15:23

こんにちは。始めまして。マットです。終身はイリノイ州です。趣味はラッケと・ボールとテレビゲームです。どうぞよろしくお願いします。

この所は誰が日本語を話せますか?私は二年前大学で日本語を勉強しました。日本語が上手じゃないから、たくさん練習したいと思います。

ありがとうございます。

BTW, I was noticing that a lot of people were translating "you" and "I" into "anata wa" and "watshi wa" respectively. I was taught never to do this in my classes, especially with "anata" because it implies a very personal relationship. Or perhaps the author of the course just wanted a literal translation??

- Matt

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Kubi
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Re: konnichiwa

Postby Kubi » 2004-09-29, 14:14

IkimashoZ wrote:この所は誰が日本語を話せますか?

はい、ここの所に日本語が話せる人がいます。

BTW, I was noticing that a lot of people were translating "you" and "I" into "anata wa" and "watshi wa" respectively. I was taught never to do this in my classes, especially with "anata" because it implies a very personal relationship.

I also learned that prudence with "anata". As for "watashi", that's more on a neutral level, in my opinion you can use it without problems. Another point to remember, however, is that the pronouns are anyway skipped altogether usually if the context is clear.
Je défendrai mes opinions jusqu'à ma mort, mais je donnerai ma vie pour que vous puissiez défendre les vôtres. - Voltaire

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IkimashoZ
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hello Kubi

Postby IkimashoZ » 2004-09-29, 14:46

Yeah, I just finished scanning over the forum and I noticed a few other errors too. Pronouns were way overused in the beginning. Like you said, they simply aren't used that frequently in Japanese because context takes care of them in most situations and the grammar of the language doesn't demand their presence.

Another big flaw was the use of を (object particle "o") in sentences with たいです (-tai desu). One thing that was drilled into my head in class was never use を with たいです. Even though it's the object, you have to use が (ga).

ドイツで大学院をしたいです。(X)
doitsu de daigakuin o shitai desu. (X)

ドイツで大学院がしたいです。(O)
doitsu de daigakuin ga shitai desu. (O)

I want to do grad school in Germany.

Also, the definition given for だいたい (daitai) is usually, generally, normally. Perhaps this can be used idiomatically in this way, but I had learned だいたい to mean about or approximately. たいてい (taitei) is the word I used for usually.

Finally, 小さい and 大きい (chiisai and ookii) are more common than 小さな and 大きな (chiisana and ookina). Though the latter two are still correct, technically speaking.

Is there still interest on this board to continue with Japanese?? I would be interested in doing more lessons, if there's interest.

DarkPlague07
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Postby DarkPlague07 » 2004-09-29, 19:41

Da Jia Hao!

I would gladly like to continue to study. Although I have not had much time lately, I do have spare time every couple days. It would be nice for someone to continue lessons. :)

Zai Jian

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IkimashoZ
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ok, so...

Postby IkimashoZ » 2004-09-29, 23:23

So, would it be better to try to start from where Dan left off? Perhaps do a review? What do you think?

DarkPlague07
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Postby DarkPlague07 » 2004-09-30, 2:06

Sounds good to me. :)


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