Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

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Virankannos
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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby Virankannos » 2014-12-25, 14:25

Buriid juovllaid buohkaide! In dieđe fitnágo giige dáppe šat muhto jearan goittotge :) Maid dii bargabehtet juovllaid áigge? Mus lea rievtti mielde ollu bargu inge danin astta leat luomus nu guhká. Áiggun vuolgit ođđajagimánu gaskamuttus golmma vahkkui reisui ja galggašin dahkat bargguid válbmasii ovdal go vuolggán. Háliidan dál goit veahá vuoiŋŋastit ja gallestallat fulkkiid. Ja dieđusge boran šukkuláde. Naba dii?

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Virankannos
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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby Virankannos » 2015-03-19, 17:57

Jo golbma mánu gollan go čállen ovddit sága iige oktage vástádus. Dáppe eai dáidde leat sámegiela máhttit :( Váivi. Várra galggan nappo iežainan háleštit.

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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby skáhpi » 2015-04-24, 8:57

Dearvva, mu namma lea Shoshana ja orun Englándas. Mon lean eret Belarus.

(How would you say 'Belarus'?)

:)

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Duiskanieida
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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby Duiskanieida » 2015-04-24, 10:36

Bures boahtin!

Belarus lea sámegillii Vilgesruošša.
[flag]de[/flag] [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]en[/flag] [flag]fi[/flag] [flag]sme[/flag]
Jođi lea buoret go oru.

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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby skáhpi » 2015-04-24, 15:13

Giitu!

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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby skáhpi » 2015-04-24, 15:32

Mon in dieđe 'much'! :)

Mii dat 'much' lea sámegillii??

Mus lea ođđa beana- son leat sihke boaris (oktanuppelohkái!) ja bealjeheapmi (? Deaf, right?) maid son leat lihkolaš ja movtta (would prefer 'energetic'), ja BUOREMUS, 'all the same'. Son namma lea Schmatta!

That is meant to say- I have a new dog- he is both old and deaf but he is happy and energetic and THE BEST, all the same. He's called Schmatta.

Energy is energiija, but how does Energiija get to energetic if it does at all? Sorry to be plaguing you with questions.

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Virankannos
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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby Virankannos » 2015-04-26, 20:11

much = ollu: Mun in dieđe olu.

Energetic sáhtášii leat vaikko searalaš (sánis searra 'strength, ability, power')

Juo, bealjeheapmi lea 'deaf', bustávalaččat ”ear-less”.

Du sámegiella lea juo hui buorre! :)

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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-01-11, 5:09

Does anyone know why this happens in Saami languages, or how common it is?
Kas keegi teab, miks see juhtub saami keeltes, või kui levinud on?

Pite (smi-smp) häffne spider (Pite Saami)
Ume (smi-smu) fäyhnee spider (Ume Saami)

Inari Saami (smi-smn) täsni star (Inari Saami)
Northern Saami (smi-sme) násti star (Northern/Davvi Saami)

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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby awrui » 2020-01-11, 12:34

Linguaphile wrote:Does anyone know why this happens in Saami languages, or how common it is?
Kas keegi teab, miks see juhtub saami keeltes, või kui levinud on?

Pite (smi-smp) häffne spider (Pite Saami)
Ume (smi-smu) fäyhnee spider (Ume Saami)

Inari Saami (smi-smn) täsni star (Inari Saami)
Northern Saami (smi-sme) násti star (Northern/Davvi Saami)



I'm not a linguist, so I have no idea, but for me it seems to go all the way back to when finnic and saamic languages still haven't split.
http://kaino.kotus.fi/algu/index.php?t= ... e_id=16274
http://kaino.kotus.fi/algu/index.php?t= ... e_id=52729

I don't think they just switches consonants, there must be some steps in between.

There is a hypothesis that the saami languages took different routes from where they came from to where they are now, and that's why some languages have more "ancient" features than others.

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Re: Discussion in Sámi - Sagastallam sámegillii

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-01-11, 15:38

awrui wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Does anyone know why this happens in Saami languages, or how common it is?
Kas keegi teab, miks see juhtub saami keeltes, või kui levinud on?

Pite (smi-smp) häffne spider (Pite Saami)
Ume (smi-smu) fäyhnee spider (Ume Saami)

Inari Saami (smi-smn) täsni star (Inari Saami)
Northern Saami (smi-sme) násti star (Northern/Davvi Saami)



I'm not a linguist, so I have no idea, but for me it seems to go all the way back to when finnic and saamic languages still haven't split.
http://kaino.kotus.fi/algu/index.php?t= ... e_id=16274
http://kaino.kotus.fi/algu/index.php?t= ... e_id=52729

Your first link didn't work but I'm assuming it's the Álgu page for násti; I'm familiar with that site (see also here for my list for "star", here for my list for "spider", and here where I cited that site as one of the sources), but thanks.

awrui wrote:I don't think they just switches consonants, there must be some steps in between.


awrui wrote:There is a hypothesis that the saami languages took different routes from where they came from to where they are now, and that's why some languages have more "ancient" features than others.

Yeah, but the metathesis of initial and final consonants doesn't follow those geographic patterns. For example, with the words for "star", Eastern Saamic has tCsnC (in some cases tCstC) and Western Saami has nCstC. But with the words for "spider", it doesn't follow that pattern at all; Ume (a Western Saamic language) has fChnC while Eastern and other Western languages, including its neighbors on both sides, have the consonants the other way around (some with additional changes as well).
I know I've seen metathesis like this with a few other words, but can't remember right now which ones, which was in part why I asked.
The way in which it is so sporadic (only a few words) and scattered (no consistent or distinct geographical pattern that tends to lead to this type of metathesis, i.e. not consistently in the same varieties of Saami nor consistently Eastern versus Western etc.) and yet still consistent (each time it happens it seems to be the reversal of the first consonant and the final consonant) made me wonder if there were some other factor involved. In the back of my mind I have a vague sense that I may have read somewhere that it could have been for purposes of euphemism, but I'm honestly not sure if it could be some other language family I read that about, and can't find the source now.
Anyway my question is not about the differences among Saami languages in general but specifically about those sporadic ones that involve metathesis, very specifically the reversal of initial and final (or medial) consonants. (Even internal metathesis like -vk- to -kv- is more common, and seems more natural, and is not what I'm looking for.) Does anyone have other examples of initial consonants being metathesized with final or medial consonants among Saami languages? I'm sure these aren't the only two I've seen before, but at the moment I can't think of or find more examples besides the words for "star" and "spider". (Which of course is making me question whether or not I'm even right that there are others.)


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