European vs. Brazilian

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הענט

Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby הענט » 2014-11-24, 11:38

I can't recall the name right now. I watched it on some Latino channel on my laptop. I used to have a channel on my TV, but they cancelled it for who knows what reason.

Btw. Is there a liaison in Portuguese? For example Ele está na cama. sounds to me like Elistanaikama. I don't mind, since I want to learn French as well. Swedish had it too if I remember correctly. :)

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Osias » 2014-11-25, 14:45

Dr. House wrote:I can't recall the name right now. I watched it on some Latino channel on my laptop. I used to have a channel on my TV, but they cancelled it for who knows what reason.

Btw. Is there a liaison in Portuguese? For example Ele está na cama. sounds to me like Elistanaikama. I don't mind, since I want to learn French as well. Swedish had it too if I remember correctly. :)

Fora esse "i" em Elistanaikama, geralmente as pessoas falam assim, mas isso varia de acordo com a região de origem do falante.
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הענט

Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby הענט » 2014-11-25, 19:29

Entendo, muito obrigado. :)

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Núria Harket » 2016-12-30, 11:41

How Hard Is It To Learn Brazilian PORTUGUESE? - Gabriel Silva
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP1GozBxQ7Q&feature=youtu.be

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-12, 8:45

I've been mainly learning European Portuguese because that's what I first started seriously learning, but I've started to realize that it's hard to find movies from Portugal with English subtitles apart from maybe a few short movies on YouTube.

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Osias » 2017-02-12, 13:40

Or movies from Portugal at all.
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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-15, 6:51

Actually, there are at least a few movies from Portugal that are easily accessible on YouTube. Even the first Portuguese sound film is available online. I found this movie, which is definitely using European Portuguese and not Brazilian, with subtitles in English. I think I'd like to try transcribing the lines in the video, but I got tripped up at one point towards the beginning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zTSbvLxf0
- Eu amo-a. É muito mais do físico ou espiritual. Por mais que eu tente, por mais que eu queira, eu não consigo explicar e sei que também não me vai você compreender. [Is that right? I got stuck after "sei que" at first at least.]
- Já falou muito sobre isso.

I'll try to do the rest later, maybe on my personal thread. :P

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Luís » 2017-02-15, 8:18

vijayjohn wrote:- Eu amo-a. É muito mais do que físico ou espiritual. Por mais que eu tente e por mais que eu queira, eu não consigo explicar e sei que também não me vai você ia conseguir compreender. [Is that right? I got stuck after "sei que" at first at least.]
- Já falou muito sobre isso.

I'll try to do the rest later, maybe on my personal thread. :P


The girl has a slight Northern accent, btw ;)
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Osias » 2017-02-15, 18:50

Acho que é "e sei que também não ia conseguir compreender", o "conseguir" é dito muito rápido.
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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-17, 16:35

Obrigado aos dois! :) Acho um pouco estranho dizer "conseguir" rápido porque fora isso, parece falar bastante claro.
Luís wrote:The girl has a slight Northern accent, btw ;)

I knew she must have had some kind of accent! But I didn't know which one. Is that also why she pronounces the final r in explicar as [ɹ] like in English?

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Osias » 2017-02-17, 16:49

Ouvindo de novo, parece que fala "cons'guir", ficando duas sílabas.
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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-17, 18:33

:yep:

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Luís » 2017-02-18, 13:25

Eu não diria que é "rápido", mas como disse o osias, por causa da redução da vogal uma palavra de três sílabas acaba por ficar apenas com duas e pode dar essa sensação...
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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-28, 22:54

a diferensa na escrita é mini.

die differenz im vokabular is viel plus mega, z um exempel bai den transportmitteln:
der unterschied im wortschatz is viel gröszer, zum beispiel bei den transportmitteln:
a diferensa no vocabulário é bem maior, por ex. nos meios de transporte:

autocarro/ônibus (ou busu, busao), metro/metrô, comboio/trem, eléctrico/bonde.

and brazilians tend to have more loan words, while the portuguese try often to create new words or translate them.
e os brasileiros tem mais palavras estrangeiras, encuanto os portugueses frecuentemente tentam criar novas palavras ou traduzir elas.

par example les brasiliens ont 'mouse' - de lordinateur - les portugais ont 'rato'.
por exemplo os brasileiros tem 'mouse' - do computador - os portugueses tem 'rato'.

e tengo un libro portugués sobre la cocina francesa, yo necesita la diccionario la todo tiempo...
e eu tenho um livro português sobre a cozinha francesa, eu preciso de dicionário o tempo todo...

o problema do português do brasil é que você aprend uma língua, e no brasil falam outra.

in der schul or im curs lerne man:
in der schule oder im kurs lernt man:
na scola ou no curso se aprend:

eu estou, tu estás, ele está, nós estamos, vós estais, eles estao.

e wat do they sey?
and wat do they say?
e o que eles dizem?

eu to, ce ta, ele ta, a gent ta, ces ta(o), eles ta(o)

dans el ecola tu aprens:
dans lécol tu aprens:
na scola ce aprend:

eu o vi.

y que se dice?
e o que se diz?

eu vi ele.

ou seja, a diferens inter o portugueis oficiale de brasil e o brazileis de rua é mega.
ou seja, a diferensa entri o portugueis oficial do brasil i o brazileis di rua é grand.

und dann comme la prononcirung, wo la maisten diferenzen sind.
und dann kommt die aussprache, wo die meisten unterschide sind.
i daí vem a pronúncia, ond tao as maioris diferensas.

once i made some statisticas on la diferences na pronunciacion de lettras between the europan e the american linguas.
once i made some statistics on the difrences in the pronunciation of letters between the europan and the american languages.
uma vez eu fiz uma statística das diferensas na pronúncia di letras entri a língua europan e a american.

entre espanian af espania et espaniano de latin america ai 2 diferences constantes et 6 regionales.
entre espaniano d'espania ee espaniano de latin america y a 2 diférences constantes ee 6 rejionales.
entri o espaniano di espania i o espaniano di america latina tem 2 diferensas constants i 6 rejonais.

inter inglishe britanico e inglish americano i discobrí 11 diferences.
entre inglishe britanico e inglish americano yo descobrí 11 diferencias.
entri inglishe britanico i inglish americano eu discobrí 11 diferensas.

inter europano portugalian e brasiliano portugalian i discobrí 24 diferences.
entri portugalian europan i portugaliano brasilian eu discobrí 24 diferensas.

zwishen europano francian e quebecois, i can no sei fil, i waiss zu pok üba quebecois.
zwischen dem europano francian und dem quebecois, kann ich nich vil sagen, ich weiss zu wenig über quebecois.
eu nao posso falar muinto sobri as diferensas entri u francian europan i o quebecois, eu sei muinto pouco sobri o quebecois.

meibi algi laike watching mai video abaut la portugaliano lingua:
maybe somebody feels like watching my veedeo about the portugaliano language:
talveiz alguen kera ve o meu video sobri a língua portugalian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5_apIpXIY8&t=23s

el ist parlee in portugalian, espaniano, francian, english et alman, plus europano et parfois une otre lingua europan.
el est parlee en portugalian, espaniano, francian, english ee alman, plus europano ee parfoi une ôtre langue europan.
ela é falada im portugalian, espaniano, francian, english i alemao, mais europano i as veiz numa otra lingua europan.

todo co subtitules e sobretítules.
todo con subtítulos y sobretítulos.
tudu cum lejenda im sima i im baxu.

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby OldBoring » 2018-01-28, 23:40

vijayjohn wrote:I knew she must have had some kind of accent! But I didn't know which one. Is that also why she pronounces the final r in explicar as [ɹ] like in English?

I thought that was the stereotypical caipira accent, spoken in the interior of São Paulo state and in parts of Minas Gerais.

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Poirot » 2018-01-31, 18:02

I'm a monolingual English speaker currently learning Brazilian Portuguese. I tried my hand at other Latin languages and Portuguese was the one that I retained information the best. I have a Skype tutor from Minas Gerais and she is teaching me the carioca accent. Once you get the pronunciation down this language is quite fun. She told me Brazilians can't understand Portuguese at all. When she and her mother were visiting Portugal, after a few days her mother said to her, "These people don't speak Portuguese at all." I thought they were exaggerating. But then I watched that Portuguese short and none of it sounded familiar. Without the subtitles I would be lost. It seems like they are speaking one of those northern Italian languages. If I hadn't been told beforehand, I wouldn't have known what language they were speaking.

So Brazilian Portuguese is the one I go with. However, that doesn't mean I dislike Euro Portuguese. On the contrary, I think it sounds great. And it's good that the two Portuguese languages are significantly different because it would be boring if they sounded both the same. :yep:

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Osias » 2018-01-31, 18:14

Porque ela não te ensina o sotaque mineiro, se ela mora em Minas? :hmm:
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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Poirot » 2018-01-31, 22:39

Osias wrote:Porque ela não te ensina o sotaque mineiro, se ela mora em Minas? :hmm:

Hahaha. I'm glad I can get the jist of a Portuguese sentence even if I can't speak it well. I picked up that sentence better than expected. "Why is she not something or something mineiro, se she mora in Minas?" I figured out mineiro was the name for the Minas accent. I thought se was either "we, us, one, people". After I that mora meant she dies. But I figured it out to mean you're asking why she's not teaching the way mineiros speak. Then I used my dictionary at hand to translate it. I'm sorry if I messed up in some ways. I have been speaking Portuguese for only a few months. Falo portugues para treis meses. I still mix my Portuguese with what I remember from my high school Spanish. :P

To answer your question: she said because carioca is the most widely spoken accent, it's best to give Portuguese learners knowledge in the most widely spoken one.

Thanks for the convo. Any convo in Portuguese helps. Just when I think the language is easy, I learn something knew and I find the new challenge is rewarding as well as fun. Amo falar portugues! 8-)

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Osias » 2018-01-31, 23:11

Poirot wrote:
Osias wrote:Porque ela não te ensina o sotaque mineiro, se ela mora em Minas? :hmm:

Hahaha. I'm glad I can get the jist of a Portuguese sentence even if I can't speak it well. I picked up that sentence better than expected. "Why is she not something or something mineiro, se she mora in Minas?" I figured out mineiro was the name for the Minas accent. I thought se was either "we, us, one, people". After I that mora meant she dies. But I figured it out to mean you're asking why she's not teaching the way mineiros speak. Then I used my dictionary at hand to translate it. I'm sorry if I messed up in some ways. I have been speaking Portuguese for only a few months. Falo português três meses. I still mix my Portuguese with what I remember from my high school Spanish. :P

To answer your question: she said because carioca is the most widely spoken accent, it's best to give Portuguese learners knowledge in the most widely spoken one.

Thanks for the convo. Any convo in Portuguese helps. Just when I think the language is easy, I learn something knew and I find the new challenge is rewarding as well as fun. Amo falar português! 8-)

Vai fundo! :yep:
2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: European vs. Brazilian

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-02-01, 10:49

Poirot wrote:
Osias wrote:Porque ela não te ensina o sotaque mineiro, se ela mora em Minas? :hmm:

Hahaha. I'm glad I can get the jist of a Portuguese sentence even if I can't speak it well. I picked up that sentence better than expected. "Why is she not something or something mineiro, se she mora in Minas?" I figured out mineiro was the name for the Minas accent. I thought se was either "we, us, one, people". After I that mora meant she dies. But I figured it out to mean you're asking why she's not teaching the way mineiros speak. Then I used my dictionary at hand to translate it. I'm sorry if I messed up in some ways. I have been speaking Portuguese for only a few months. Falo portugues para treis meses. I still mix my Portuguese with what I remember from my high school Spanish. :P

To answer your question: she said because carioca is the most widely spoken accent, it's best to give Portuguese learners knowledge in the most widely spoken one.

Thanks for the convo. Any convo in Portuguese helps. Just when I think the language is easy, I learn something knew and I find the new challenge is rewarding as well as fun. Amo falar portugues! 8-)


(koy)eu no sa de onde ela tirou isso, que o carioc accento é o accento mais falado de brasil. wenn si das sagt, denn cann ich imaginiren, dass si de südest-minas is, also von der saide die is neher an rio, e somit was enliches spricht. les principales characteristicas du carioquês sont la guturale R avant les consonnes (porrtu, porrta) et un /S/ (sh) pour la S si cette lettra nest pas suivi par vocal. por mais calculos, la mayorie de los brasileros realmente dice la guturale R del carioqués, mas solo 1/5 pronunce la S como 'sh'. eu pessoalmente no posso ouvir todos esses ch-ch, é como um rádio mal sintonizee...

(en)i dont know ware she has that from, that carioquês is the most widely spoken accent in brazil. if she ses that, i can imagine that she comes from soud-est minas, from the side that is neerer to rio, and so she speeks something like carioquês too. the main feetures of the carioquês ar the guttural R befor consonants (porrtu, porrta, almost like english pohtoo, pohta) and /S/ (sh) if the letter S isnt followed by a vowel. acording to my calculations, the majority of brazilians really say the guttural R of the carioquês, but only 1/5 say the S as 'sh'. i personally cant stand all those sh-sh, it is like a poorly tuned radio...


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