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Ó Baoill wrote:I bhfocal ilsiollacha a bhfaightear eadh ina lár tá dhá dhóigh lena rá (a) mar agh agus an gh á fhuaimniú mar a bhíonn i dtús focail agus (b) mar dhéfhoghar mar atá san fhocal Béarla height. Is gnách go bhfaightear fuaimniú (a) ina measc siúd a bhfuil ú neamhchruinn acu mar fhuaimniú ar ao agus fuaimniú (b) acu siúd ar í a deir siad le ao.
There are two ways of pronouncing polysyllabic words ending in eadh, (a) as agh, with gh sounding as it does at the beginning of words, and (b) as a diphthong, as in the English word height. Generally, the (a) sound occurs where ao sounds as unrounded ú and the (b) sound where ao is pronounced as í.
Sectori wrote:Lately I've been idly paging through Dónall P. Ó Baoill's An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Uladh, and I came across a passage in the section on phonology that threw me off:Ó Baoill wrote:I bhfocal ilsiollacha a bhfaightear eadh ina lár tá dhá dhóigh lena rá (a) mar agh agus an gh á fhuaimniú mar a bhíonn i dtús focail agus (b) mar dhéfhoghar mar atá san fhocal Béarla height. Is gnách go bhfaightear fuaimniú (a) ina measc siúd a bhfuil ú neamhchruinn acu mar fhuaimniú ar ao agus fuaimniú (b) acu siúd ar í a deir siad le ao.
Is this an accurate (if somewhat free) translation:There are two ways of pronouncing polysyllabic words ending in eadh, (a) as agh, with gh sounding as it does at the beginning of words, and (b) as a diphthong, as in the English word height. Generally, the (a) sound occurs where ao sounds as unrounded ú and the (b) sound where ao is pronounced as í.
Sectori wrote:If that's accurate: do Ulster people who have í for ao really have [ǝi] for (e)adh? (Examples he gives include ar feadh, is ea(dh), adhradh, and teaghlach, so apparently it's not about word-finality, despite the first sentence, and covers (e)agh.)
Sectori wrote:I'd expect Ulster to (broadly) be closer to Gaelic than southern dialects, and there's no Gaelic dialect that does this as far as I know (my ear revolts at the idea of [fʲǝi] for feadh).
Sectori wrote:This is changing literally everything I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation; what have you guys done to your language??? (I jest, obviously, but actually this does radically change what I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation.)
Sectori wrote:"[tʲǝila(x)]" indeed. (Also, that dictionary does in fact give [ɛr fʲǝi] for "ar feadh" in Ulster. What.)
I feel like Gaelic's consonants make more sense than Irish, but obviously I'm a little biased.Ciarán12 wrote:Sectori wrote:This is changing literally everything I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation; what have you guys done to your language??? (I jest, obviously, but actually this does radically change what I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation.)
Literally exactly what I think when I hear Scots Gaelic. Absolutely baffling.
I'm pretty sure I've looked at it in the past, but at the time I was more focused on the morphology section than the phonology. It's in the library here, in any case, so I guess I'll have to check it out again next week.Ciarán12 wrote:Sectori wrote:"[tʲǝila(x)]" indeed. (Also, that dictionary does in fact give [ɛr fʲǝi] for "ar feadh" in Ulster. What.)
If you want a good overview of Irish phonology you can get yourself a copy of Modern Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail. I have it, I have yet to go through it properly (phonology is not my greatest strength when it comes to linguistics).
That's weird about ar feadh, because feadh on its own has a different pronunciation
linguoboy wrote:An bhfuil tú á léamh fós, a Chiaráin?
linguoboy wrote:Táim ag déanamh dearmhad ar mo chuidse Gaelainne. Do thugas iarracht ar an chéad caibidil den Bhéal bocht cupla oíche ó shin agus is beag an chiall a bhí á buint aisti agam.
linguoboy wrote:Sé an chuid is measa go raibh aithne ar mórchuid desna focail agam, ach bhí a mbrí glan as mo mheabhair. Nach bocht an scéal é!
Léigheas i mBéarla í. Léigheas an tromchuid dí i nGaelainn leis. Is cupla bliain nár fhéachas uirthi.Ciarán12 wrote:Nár léigh tú cheana féin í? Níl a fhios agam cén fáth, ach cheap mé go ndúirt tú gur léigh tú í.
Ní féidir. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil Gaeilgeorí i Siocágo ach níl aithne ar éine acu agam.Ciarán12 wrote:Seachas na leabhair atá agat agus an fóram seo, an bhfuil aon deis eile agat ar úsáid na teanga?
Evenfall wrote:Oh yeah, that looks fine, I will check it out
Go raibh maith agat!
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