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So how is rise of fascism and war a better response?
Sol Invictus wrote:So how is rise of fascism and war a better response?
I didn't like austerity either, but it kind of worked for my country
Sol Invictus wrote:[code] and it is rather disrespectfull to victims of crimes against humanity to devolve the concept by calling everything you dislike a crime against humanity, unless you can demonstrate how it is that (and in general concept of austerity does not automaticaly equate crime against humanity the way, say, the concept of ethnic cleaning does)
IpseDixit wrote:Sol Invictus wrote:So how is rise of fascism and war a better response?
This is a gigantic strawman and is quite offensive to an average person's intelligence.
And anyway the rise of fascism is a direct consequence of austerity.
I didn't like austerity either, but it kind of worked for my country
Latvia's success with austerity is very questioned. Many economists are very critical about that, one of this is Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman.
Sol Invictus wrote:[code] and it is rather disrespectfull to victims of crimes against humanity to devolve the concept by calling everything you dislike a crime against humanity, unless you can demonstrate how it is that (and in general concept of austerity does not automaticaly equate crime against humanity the way, say, the concept of ethnic cleaning does)
Crimes against humanity, as defined by the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court Explanatory Memorandum, "are particularly odious offenses in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of human beings."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity
Whoever thinks that the Greek people (and probably not only the Greek people) hasn't been constantly humiliated in the last years is in a deep state of denial.
In that case the whole thread is a giant strawman. It is a very common assumption that WWII and rise of fascism (not just Italian, btw) was caused by economic issues. Similarily the global crisis was the first such occurance and they did not know what to do about it, the new deal too was not implemented at once
Old news. There is no economic crisis here any longer, nor is anyone, but Putin supporters, who like historical revisionism, comparing it to crimes against humanity.
Mind you that the article lists particular examples. Is austerity trying to wipe Greeks off the face of earth, turtoring and raping them or something? Also you missed the part where it says that such crime is deliberate act.
Sol Invictus wrote:So basicly he's arguing that Latvia's example won't work for other countries. That does not prove your point that it didn't work for Latvia too
Sol Invictus wrote:Those are the consequences of economic crisis
Those are the consequences of economic crisis, even asuming that austerity made the crisis worse it still shows no deliberation
IpseDixit wrote:Sol Invictus wrote:Those are the consequences of economic crisis
No, those are the consequences of austerity.
Austerity is a deliberate political decision.
Ergo, that is deliberate crime against humanity.
The IMF has been admitting miscalculations more than once. After how many apologies is the rest of the Troika accountable in continuing to enforce that policy?
Making them accountable and blaming them for crimes against humanity are two different things.
There's the understanding, at least in Greece, that politicians cannot be prosecuted for their policy
And as I said earlier, austerity will most probably not be criminalised, because it's a policy. It would be a huge legal shake-up if the courts even accept the case.
you'll note that government wasn't trying to do anything about the issue or most likely intended it to happen and the victims could not protest or seek help in any way or they would be persecuted even further
You never said you don't think it is a crime against humanity (in fact you likened it to holodmor), just that you think it won't be punishedmeidei wrote:Er...
And in the countries under a Troika deal, freedom of press and freedom of gathering is heavily restricted, police brutality increased, the formerly unthinkable use of military force to disperse protests was brought forward, and elections are held under an atmosphere of terror (in Greece whenever people call for elections, the government says something along the lines of "do you want us to become Tahrir/Gezi/Aleppo/Maidan, depending on the year).
Holodmor was not caused by austerity, it was caused by idiotic economic system, poor harvest and possibly the father of nations
It is not happening in every single country that has had austerity implemented.
meidei wrote:Yes, but I described Holodomor as bureaucracy gone horribly wrong and was caused by a ridiculous economic system.
I think you have a similar description, unless I missed somethingHolodmor was not caused by austerity, it was caused by idiotic economic system, poor harvest and possibly the father of nations
Austerity is not a new concept that applies only to Eurozone crisisIt is not happening in every single country that has had austerity implemented.
Holds true for Greece and Spain (where they even got a law criminalising gathering near government buildings, which is similar to Greece's closing whole sectors of Athens where government is situated, when there's an underlying hint of unrest). I can't tell about Portugal and Ireland.
I didDo you want to address my point by any chance? Are the EC and ECB responsible in any way, for implementing austerity with a religious zeal, when the outcomes contradict them for 6 years, and when their partner IMF notices grave errors in the policies themselves suggest?
Ie, do they at least deserve to see their mandate removed?
I did
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