Chechen

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Qaanaaq
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Re: Chechen

Postby Qaanaaq » 2012-09-09, 21:32

księżycowy wrote:т - тт - т1
/t~th/ - /t:/ - /t'/


That is right :-) You must be aware, that the Chechen orthography is very badly suited for the language’s phonological richness. Johanna Nichols of the University of California, Berkeley, has worked a long time to develop a practical (and phonological) Latin spelling for Chechen and Ingush. You can enjoy the result of her work here. The dictionary is not fully available on Google Books, yet it is fully searchable. I always use it to check the vowels; Chechen Cyrillic е can stand (in the middle of the word) for four different phonemes, which Nichols spells as e, ee, ia, and ie. The correct pronunciation is crucial for having Chechens understand your even simplest utterances.

Here is a table of Latin equivalents of the Chechen Cyrillic. Nichols doesn’t use any diacritics in her dictionary; the ones I use are my own innovation: ä for ae, ǧ for gh, ž for zh, ö for oe, ü for y, č for ch. I also mark long ää and öö after Matsiyev and for consistency (Nichols doesn’t distinguish their length, as their length is extremely predictable with few exceptions).

——————————————————————————

А а — a — adam (адам) human
— aa — aarie (аре) plain, steppe, field
(ай) — ai — aiǧar (айгIар) stallion
— aai — ǧalǧaai (гIалгIай) Ingush (pl.)
Аь аь — ä — ärzuu (аьрзу) eagle
— ää — äälla (аьлла) said
Б б — b — butt (бутт) moon
В в — v — vota (вота) drum
Г г — g — gezga (гезга) spider
ГI гI — ǧ — ǧaapaq (гIапакх) pumpkin
Д д — d — dig (диг) axe
Е е — je — je’ara (еара) Thursday
— jee — jees-aarie (ес-аре) wasteland
— jia — jiatt (етт) cow
— jie — jiešap (ешап) sorceress
— e — c̕e (цIе) name, fire
— ee — bwee (бIе) hundred
— ia — p̕ialg (пIелг) finger
— ie — süürie (суьре) evening
(ев) — jeu — jeuzina (евзина) recognised (fem.)
— eu — veuza (вевза) he knows him
Ж ж — ž — žwäla (жIаьла) dog
З з — z — zaza (заза) blossom, flower
И и — i — ituu (иту) iron
(ий) — ii — iiǧina (ийгIина) angry
Й й — j — jii (йий) beer
К к — k — kor (кор) window
Кх кх — q — qoqa (кхокха) dove
Къ къ — q̕ — q̕oolam (къолам) pencil
КI кI — k̕ — k̕ant (кIант) son, boy
Л л — l — laam (лам) mountain
М м — m — maalx (малх) sun
Н н — n — niaq̕ (некъ) road
О о — o — omar (омар) order
— oo — ooram (орам) root
— oa — oalxazar (олхазар) bird
— uo — uočaq (очакх) pothole, rut
(ов) — ou — ou (ов) skewer
(ой) — oi — oila (ойла) thought
Оь оь — ö — örsi (оьрси) Russian
— öö — ööpa (оьпа) gopher
П п — p — polla (полла) butterfly
ПI пI — p̕ — p̕eeraska (пIераска) Friday
Р р — r — raaǧ (рагI) queue
С с — s — sai (сай) deer
Т т — t — taxana (тахана) today
ТI тI — t̕ — t̕om (тIом) war
У у — u — u (у) plank, board
— uu — uuram (урам) street
(уй) — ui — gui (гуй) washtub
Уь уь — ü — üstaǧ (уьстагI) ram
(уьй) — üü — üür (уьйр) connection, friendship
Ф ф — f — fevraalj (февраль) February
Х х — x — xox (хох) onion
Хь хь — ẋ — ẋač (хьач) plum
— w — pwaagal (пхьагал) hare, rabbit
ХI хI — h — hord (хIорд) sea
Ц ц — c — cerg (церг) tooth
ЦI цI — c̕ — c̕a (цIа) room, house
Ч ч — č — ča (ча) bear
ЧI чI — č̕ — č̕aara (чIара) fish
Ш ш — š — šura (шура) milk
Щ щ — šč — (only in Russian loanwords)
Ъ ъ — ’ — cwa’ (цхьаъ) one
Ы ы — y — (only in Russian loanwords)
Ь ь — j/Ø — (only in Russian loanwords)
Э э — e — emkal (эмкал) camel
— ee — eesa (эса) calf
— ia — iaẋ (эхь) shame
— ie — ieca (эца) to take, to buy
(эв) — eu — eula (эвла) village
Ю ю — ju — jurt (юрт) town
— juu — juumoza (юмоза) wasp
Юь юь — jü — jüẋ (юьхь) face
Я я — ja — jalta (ялта) bread
— jaa — jaalx (ялх) six
Яь яь — jä — jäwna (яьIна) nape of neck
I I — w — wa (Iа) winter


Sample text in the official Cyrillic spelling and Nichols’s Latin spelling (after my diacritical improvement; I also spell the particle a as a, while Nichols spells it as ’a. There is a glottal stop in front of all word-initial vowels, that’s why I leave it out. After vowels it’s pronounced only as a glottal stop, I’ve seen it spelled in Cyrillic even as ):

Лев Николаевич Толстой оьрсийн а, дуьненан а литературан куралла ю. Александр Сергеевич Пушкин оьрсийн сийлахь-воккха поэт ву. Волга Европехь уггаре а доккха хи ду. Пхоьазза ялх — ткъе итт. Кхетаме низам — муьлххачу а белхан коьрта хьал ду. Дахаран маьІна Іалашонашка кхача гІортаран — хазаллехь а, ницкъехь а ду. Жима меттиг ю Берездов, Гаврилов дозанхо ву. Доза — иза ши бІогІам бу. Хьаьжа-Мурдан некъахой виъ стаг вара. Цхьана агІор керт ю, вукху агІор — беш. Аьхка мало — Іай хало.

Lev Nikolajevič Tolstoj örsiin a, dünienan a literaturan kuralla ju. Aleksandr Sergejevič Puškin örsiin siilaẋ-voqqa poet vu. Volga Jevropiaẋ uggarie a doqqa xi du. Pxö’azza jaalx — tq̕ai itt. Qietamie nizam — mülxxaču a bialxan körta ẋaal du. Daaxaran mäwna waalašuonaška qaača ǧortaran — xazalliaẋ a, nicq̕iaẋ a du. Žima mettig ju Berezdov, Gavrilov doozanxuo vu. Dooza — iza ši bwooǧam bu. Ẋäža-Murdan neeq̕axoi vi’ stag vara. Cwana aaǧor kiart ju, vuqu aaǧor — biaš. Äxka maluo — waai xaluo.



The pronunciation of the phonemes as far as I get it (I’ve been praised for my pronunciation, though!)

a [ə] in closed syllables
[a] in open syllables
aa [a] in closed syllables
[aː] in open syllables
ai [əj]
aai [aj]
ä [æ]
ää [æː] (not a phoneme according to Nichols, the only instances I know of are a couple of past tense verbs in Matsiyev’s dictionary: äälla ‘said’, bääxna ‘said (iterative)’, däälla ‘left’, qäädda ‘cut’)
b [b]
v [v~w]
g [ɡ]
ǧ [ʁ]
d [d]
e [jɛ] mostly in closed syllables
[ɛ] mostly in open syllables
ee [eː]
ia [jæ] ?
ie [ieː]
eu [ɛw~øw] (the latter pronunciation is so widespread that the phoneme is sometimes spelled оьв ‘öu’ in Chechen publications)
ž [ʒ~ʤ] (ʤ is more dialectal I think, definitely found in Kist and Ingush)
z [z]
i [i~ɪ]
ii [iː]
j [j]
k [k]
q [q]
q̕ [q’]
k̕ [k’]
l [l~ɫ] ?
m [m]
n [n]
o [wʌ] mostly in closed syllables
[o~ɔ] mostly in open syllables, notable exception: noxchi ‘Chechen’
oo [oː]
oa [wɔ] ???
uo [uoː]
ou [ɔw]
oi [ɔj]
ö [ʏ̯ø] mostly in closed syllables, Nichols lists a short list of exceptions
öö [yøː] mostly in open syllables
p [p]
p̕ [p’] (rare, disappeared in some dialects substituted by t̕ if I remember correctly)
r [r]
s [s]
t [t]
t̕ [t’]
u [u]
uu [uː]
ü [y]
üü [yː]
f [f] (only loanwords,formerly substituted by p)
x [χ]
ẋ [ħ]
h [h]
c [ʦ]
c̕ [ʦ’]
č [ʧ]
č̕ [ʧ’]
š [ʃ]
’ [ʔ] (not spelled in the beginning of the word)
w [ʕ] (there’s an audible difference whether it follows a voiced or voiceless consonant)

That’s pretty much how far I got with the Chechen phonology :para: I hope you found this post useful!

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Qaanaaq
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Re: Chechen

Postby Qaanaaq » 2012-09-09, 21:39

And of course all vowels can be nasalised 8-) I simply spell the nasalisation as -n at the end of the word, as it’s pretty easy to tell whether it stands for [n] or a nasalised vowel. Nichols marks it with ~ which I find pretty bizarre (нохчийн мотт: noxchii~ mott). In Cyrillic the nasalisation is very often not marked!

дан — dan [də̃] ‘to do’
мала — malan [malə̃] ‘to drink’
мала! — mala! [mal(ə)] ‘drink!’ (imperative)

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księżycowy
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Re: Chechen

Postby księżycowy » 2012-09-09, 22:17

I actually have a copy of the Chechen-English/English-Chechen dictionary, which has been quite helpful! I was using Nichols' Latin system all the time!
I like Chechen being written in the Cyrillic script (I have a thing for Cyrillic), but they could make a much better system then the one they're using now!

Thanks for all the info! :D

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Ekberg
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Re: Chechen

Postby Ekberg » 2012-10-01, 15:10

Chechen music (russian lang.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTDfrN4NpoA

song about chechen brotherhood (Nohchij, mashar be vay):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM2tiIYqPOU

Tashi Mariem - Mohadjerin illi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8s9_0qqHS4

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Lauren
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Re: Chechen

Postby Lauren » 2013-02-04, 7:00

Is Chechen really that complex and irregular? :shock: I was looking into learning it, but if so, that's a definite turn-off for me. :?
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księżycowy
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Re: Chechen

Postby księżycowy » 2013-02-04, 12:03

Well, the verbs are not too bad. They have vowel changes similar to Germanic languages.
The nouns have generally will fit into one of the 4 classes. It's not highly irregular, but it is a bit odd in spots.

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Re: Chechen

Postby Lauren » 2013-02-04, 12:45

I should've said, that if I had a verb conjugator (a program or a book or whatever), or a noun declining tool, then I wouldn't have a problem, but I don't have any of those. :( But it's good to hear it's not too bad.
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księżycowy
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Re: Chechen

Postby księżycowy » 2013-02-04, 20:18

Granted, I'm far from an expert, nor am I currently studying Chechen. But from what I remember from when I was studying it wasn't so bad.

Just get a good dictionary and you'll be fine.

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Re: Chechen

Postby Petrovitch » 2013-04-21, 16:47

I've been collecting resources on Chechen for a while now, just in case I want to come back to it.
Here's the link

I've bought the 9000 word vocab book, just waiting for it to arrive. If anyone can find the verb conjugation book any cheaper than $65 let me know :P
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Re: Chechen

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-21, 17:08

Interesting. I might pick up a copy of the Vocab book soon. Thanks for the links! :)

I've put a little too much money into Chechen not to give it a go sometime. :P

Petrovitch wrote:If anyone can find the verb conjugation book any cheaper than $65 let me know :P

I'd hate to say it, but Dunwoody books aren't very circulated. It'd be very doubtful to find in cheap. though if you've looked into Chechen and Dunwoody (I looked at the links you posted on Tumblr), you know that already.

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Re: Chechen

Postby Petrovitch » 2013-04-21, 18:56

księżycowy wrote:Interesting. I might pick up a copy of the Vocab book soon. Thanks for the links! :)

I've put a little too much money into Chechen not to give it a go sometime. :P

Petrovitch wrote:If anyone can find the verb conjugation book any cheaper than $65 let me know :P

I'd hate to say it, but Dunwoody books aren't very circulated. It'd be very doubtful to find in cheap. though if you've looked into Chechen and Dunwoody (I looked at the links you posted on Tumblr), you know that already.


I was really surprised to find that book, and for under £20! I hope it's as good as the preview..
Yeah I asked just in case. $65 is a lot of money for a student :(

FOUND IT FOR UNDER £50
here
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Re: Chechen

Postby johnklepac » 2013-04-21, 21:26

[flag]en-us[/flag] I wonder if the Boston Marathon bombing will have any noticeable effect on Chechen's popularity.
[flag]cs[/flag] Chci vědět jestli Bostonové Maratóna bombardování bůde dát skutečnou vliv k obliba čečenštinu.
[flag]ja[/flag] ボストン・マラソンの原爆をつけられることはチェチェン語の人気の少なさを変えさせるかな。

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Re: Chechen

Postby Yasna » 2013-04-22, 1:10

johnklepac wrote:[flag]ja[/flag] ボストン・マラソンの原爆をつけられることはチェチェン語の人気の少なさを変えさせるかな。

I haven't gotten radiation sickness yet so I'm pretty sure they weren't atomic bombs.......
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Re: Chechen

Postby Meera » 2013-04-22, 2:53

johnklepac wrote:[flag]en-us[/flag] I wonder if the Boston Marathon bombing will have any


It will probably be listed as a critical language now.
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Re: Chechen

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-22, 11:26

It seems to be becoming more noticed at the least. I mean you guys are here now. :wink:

Now, getting back to the alphabet conundrum from a few posts/months back . . .
[rant]Why can't they just double up the long vowels and write the diphthongs out!?
For example:
ааре instead of аре, or йиатт instead of етт (to steal examples from Qaanaaq above). Or something like that! I mean other languages written in Cyrillic do that! (Mongolian being my main example, but there are others)[/rant]

Oh well, I suppose that just gives Chechen some extra "charm." :twisted:

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Re: Chechen

Postby Qaanaaq » 2013-04-22, 13:22

księżycowy wrote:It seems to be becoming more noticed at the least. I mean you guys are here now. :wink:

Now, getting back to the alphabet conundrum from a few posts/months back . . .
[rant]Why can't they just double up the long vowels and write the diphthongs out!?
For example:
ааре instead of аре, or йиатт instead of етт (to steal examples from Qaanaaq above). Or something like that! I mean other languages written in Cyrillic do that! (Mongolian being my main example, but there are others)[/rant]

Oh well, I suppose that just gives Chechen some extra "charm." :twisted:


In the official Cyrillic spelling, double/subsequent vowels mean that there is a glottal stop between them, e.g.:
кхаара = qa’ara as I spell it, [qʰɐʔər] ‘Wednesday’
ца хаьа = ca xä’a [t͡sʰə xæʔ] ‘doesn’t know’
еара = je’ara [jɛʔər] ‘Thursday’

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Re: Chechen

Postby johnklepac » 2013-04-22, 13:29

Yasna wrote:
johnklepac wrote:[flag]ja[/flag] ボストン・マラソンの原爆をつけられることはチェチェン語の人気の少なさを変えさせるかな。

I haven't gotten radiation sickness yet so I'm pretty sure they weren't atomic bombs.......

It's the only "bomb" word I know.

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Re: Chechen

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-22, 13:44

Qaanaaq wrote:
In the official Cyrillic spelling, double/subsequent vowels mean that there is a glottal stop between them, e.g.:
кхаара = qa’ara as I spell it, [qʰɐʔər] ‘Wednesday’
ца хаьа = ca xä’a [t͡sʰə xæʔ] ‘doesn’t know’
еара = je’ara [jɛʔər] ‘Thursday’

I forgot about that. :oops:
Oh well.

Moving on, does anyone have any links to any texts in Chechen? Whether they are books, newspapers, or whatever?

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Re: Chechen

Postby Petrovitch » 2013-04-22, 14:08

księżycowy wrote:
Qaanaaq wrote:Moving on, does anyone have any links to any texts in Chechen? Whether they are books, newspapers, or whatever?


in the list of links that i posted there's a few newspaper articles. I don't think all of them work though.
There's also a folk song on omniglot.
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Re: Chechen

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-22, 14:22

Cool. I'll have to check them out while I'm studying! (Which might be sooner then I planned :whistle: )

I'm also taking a look at Archi, seeing as there are some materials online. :P


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