General Conlang Discussion

[hashi]

I was consolidating all my Niđalos notes, and came across an old "proverb" I made (one of the first sentences I ever wrote in Nithalos), and so I have translated it into every variety of Nithalos I have the notes to do so with.

IN ENGLISH / ENKLIŠ VAŠ
If you continue to look behind you, you will eventually run into your own tail.

NÏXALOS VAŞ / IN CLASSIC NITHALOS / VROÐ NIÐALOS VAŠ
Möya uşïra ox skalïčana čuker, yačö möya mïavoxi şïkanxra öb kaşïrana kreş.

NIÐALOS VAŠ / IN MODERN NITHALOS / ATAŠOÐ NIÐALOS VAŠ
Moa ušira ot skalitaya tukra, ato moa mayađ šikanđa ot kašiya kreš.

NEZEN VÉS / IN NEZEN / NEŠEN VAŠ
Maj úze ąlt zalétiję tokę, jato maj mejaf zikénðre ąlt kaziriję kréz.

GOVÞAE NIÞALOS VEX / IN GOVTHAN NITHALOS / GOVÐAE NIÐALOS VAŠ
Mue oxiyal þuka salita, ato mue maivoþ xikaþayal krex kaxi.

NANKA'A NIZALUS VAJ / IN SOUTHERN NITHALOS / NANKAE NIÐALOS VAŠ
Mu'a üjira uz halita'a tükra, atu mu'a maz jikanza uz haji'a hret.

[hashi]

Ą atraf toréði okoviviję daze, dú ą kol zrafe. Ko "Nezen" ub júvin aj atraf okojątek, em ko niðalosa bukąna jątek ąre. Zutaf fąt vuruf niðalos iv okoval. Zetajal Nezena zrafigąði em flúmidąji zrafav. Mo kon dazét, kurąv oj ą niðalosa zrafigąðe of zraféz.
I didn't want to make a new thread, so I am writing here. This is my new conlang called "Nezen", and it is Nithalos' sister language. All the words are derived from "Old Nithalos". Below, I have written the Nezen alphabet and pronunciation. If you want it, I can write the Nithalos alphabet for comparison.

Aa [ä]
Ąą [ɒ]
Bb [b]
Dd [d]
Ðð [ð]
Ee [ɛ,ə]
Éé [e]
Ęę [ø]
Ff [f]
Gg [g]
Ii [i]
Jj [j]
Kk [k, x]
Ll [l]
Mm [m]
Nn [n]
Oo [o]
Pp [p]
Rr [ʁ]
Ss [s]
Tt [t]
Uu [u, ʊ]
Úú [y]
Vv [v]
Zz [z]

Mo feli ame ją?
What do you think?

[Dormouse559]

Ti if busöd xüfrazyà pà xîsi Letera kö mezimà uehüâ öriksonine piasue. Gîf masuüâco má?
I think it looks great Some of the letters have multiple pronunciations. When are these used?

[hashi]

Ti if busöd xüfrazyà pà xîsi Letera kö mezimà uehüâ öriksonine piasue. Gîf masuüâco má?
I think it looks great Some of the letters have multiple pronunciations. When are these used?

<k> is most commonly [x] when in a final position. [ʊ] and [ə] are unstressed vowels. The other vowels don't have allophones based on stress.

[Kuba]

Hey people,
I have a little question about my locatives in Miwonša. I noticed that having locative cases leads to a very rare usage of prepositions so that most place descriptions are quite imprecise. So I was thinking about whether it would be a good idea to change the locative cases from a productive inflectional category into something extinct that only persists in combination with certain and very frequent nouns, like for example in such expressions like "at home", "at school", "at work" etc.
In this case it would make sence to treat such old locatives like adverbs and not like declined nouns anymore. However, I wonder if such locative adverbs that all share the same ending wouldn't automatically lead to the reconstruction of a locative case, if my conlang were a natural spoken language. Weird problem

It doesn't have to lead to reconstruction of the case - "frozen" locatives are quite common, like in Latin "humi" (on the ground) or Russian "doma" (at home). There are also "petrified" directives, like Hebrew "habayta" (to my home, to my house) or Russian "domoj" (with the same meaning). Just don't overdo it - at home, on the table, on the ground and a few others would be completely normal.
As for lokatives and prepositions, you could also go the Slavic route, like in Polish, where some prepositions take the locative: "na stole" (on the table) and so on...

[hashi]

Just before when walking home, I was thinking about Nithalosian adjective negation and came to a realisation. Traditionally, I have been negating adjectives with the suffix -ni (for example: inui okođni - The dog was not big). I then also realised that occasionally to make new adjectives, I have the habit of attaching the modal negative on to the front as a prefix (for example: dintalošti onyođ - the movie was bad (where yođ means "good").

So then I got thinking about what the difference between the two would be, and came up with the following distinctions.

1. on- can be used to show an absolute opposite, while -ni is anything up to it.

For example if we draw these on a crudely constructed charts:

inui okođ
tinođ <------------------------------------------------------> okođ
small <------------------------------------------------------> big

inui onokođ
tinođ <------------------------------------------------------> okođ
small <------------------------------------------------------> big

inui okođni
tinođ <------------------------------------------------------> okođ
small <------------------------------------------------------> big

The colour on the chart represents the scope of the meaning.

2. On- would be used to denote a permanent or holistic state, whereas -ni would denote something temporary or partial.

Koa tenki onvutođ - This weather is unusual
Koa tenki vutođni - This weather is unusual

The former would imply that this is the way the weather always is in this place, which is out of the normal when compared to other places. The latter would imply that perhaps at that moment the weather was strange, or that day it was out of character (the difference being the first 'strange' weather is still in character for the place/time).

Perhaps a better example to explain:

Koa dintodoi onunsođ - This show is uninteresting
Koa dintodoi unsođni - This show is uninteresting

The first meaning the entire series is uninteresting, while the latter meaning just that episode, or the part you're watching is uninteresting.

--

What do you think of this? Are there any similar traits in natural or your constructed languages?

[Kaylee]

I didn't know we had a conlang discussion thread! Cool!

As for your question Hashi, I don't have anything similar like that in my conlangs. Well, except I had (for Čáluŋka) a negative enclitic like Lakȟóta does, but I haven't decided if I wanted to keep it or not.

But, anyways, the other question! I do like usage/difference of the two. I haven't seen anything like that before, either. :b

EDIT:

Nevermind! Unless this book I am reading is wrong, then Spanish has something like that. For example: the adjective "feliz" means ‘happy’, and to determine if it is inherent or permanent it is signaled by the verb it is used with, like "Maria es feliz" (‘Maria is happy (a happy person)’) versus "Maria está feliz" (‘Maria is happy (now, at this moment but not necessarily always)’).

(verb "be") ser + adjective (es in this example) = inherent or permanent attribute
(verb "be") estar + adjective (está in this example) = indicate non-permanent, transitory attributes

That is assuming I understood what you meant.

[razlem]

Move omo kalim-mabada kalim-bukos ve Angos de moyol-ango, ye wo istinu balaki! Mice senso otali kwe wo, te kue move omo kona wi angos. Fove omo, te kove wo nae me oma, nesteu kinoa Angos ye kotayu des-kalim-mabadas 500 kalimo mwe le li le kinoo. Wo nue me eska, wi angos kinoa. Mice wo begina fue eska, Angos yeveu ba sele makto

Someone is translating the Angos dictionary into Hungarian, and I'm really excited! But it's a strange feeling for me when someone studies my conlang. This person, who I've never met, uses Angos fluently and freely offers to translate 500 words and meanings. I didn't really have high hopes for this conlang, but now I'm starting to believe that Angos is getting off the ground

[Dormouse559]

Lo kali! Ce omo me aksala ine ans-ipos? Ye wo me ba, wo bisa-kalim-mabada kalim-bukos de fulans-ango, be to lo bisaa. Wo nae me noa kwe lo, mice lo naevame bali bayto de wo.

That's great! Has the person posted in the discussion board? And I realized that I can translate the dictionary into French, if you want. I hadn't thought about it, but it shouldn't be too much trouble for me.

[razlem]

Ce omo me aksala ine ans-ipos?

Se, lo namas "hetcsillag", ye moyol-kalim-mabados de subo ve "Hilos Soyusos".
Yep, their name is "hetcsillag", and the Hungarian translation is at the bottom of the "Quick Links".

Ye lo istinu kali be to desa kalim-mabada de fulans-ango. Wo bisau dewe mwe espan-ango oe doyc-ango.
And that'd be great if you want to translate to French. I'll probably do it with Spanish or German.

[Dormouse559]

Ye lo istinu kali be to desa kalim-mabada de fulans-ango. Wo bisau dewe mwe espan-ango oe doyc-ango.
And that'd be great if you want to translate to French. I'll probably do it with Spanish or German.

Oke, wo nue me fewe; kewe wo mate begina?
Okay, I haven't done this before; what do I do to get started?

[Kaylee]

Wow Razlem! That is absolutely amazing news! Very happy for you!

I was just looking over your official website for the site, and I very much like a lot of the words in your dictionary! "dohi", "safal", and "ang" were among my favorites!

[razlem]

Thanks Kaylee!

Dormouse, be to desa kas-ipas, to bisa-nesumas kulosos nive "Pages and Files" de hasi kimao.
Dormouse, If you want to make a page, you can click on the cross by the "Pages and Files" at the top-left.

[Irkan]

I wanted to ask... what do you prefer, creating languages qith standard parameters or trying to invent something new, including unseen tenses or cases? Because I don't feel complete until my conlang has a brand new feature, either in the phonology or the grammar.
For example, Hiranai has no oclusives, Ħattayssë has infixes indicating happiness or unhappiness, or ONC (Other Nameless Conlang) wich uses different affixes to indicate, for example, absolutive-definite and absolutive indefinate.
Does this happen to you?

And still another question... what are your bases when deciding your conlang's name? Coz I really got troubles when naming mines.

[Kaylee]

Well, I like to create my conlangs with features I like, even if its quite common in other conlangs (though I'd have no way if telling.

As for your second question, I name the language, or try to, after the people. I consider where they live, who they are, how they act, culture, religion etc etc before I name them. Some, though, I make very simple names for, because that's really cool to me.

[razlem]

I try to do something interesting in all of mine. Angos derives verbs and descriptors from nouns, for example. Another one of my conlangs has only 3 cases, but they're rare ones.

The names of all my conlangs are just translations of the word "language"

[hashi]

I don't try to do anything in mine really. I only try to make it suit what makes most sense to me, and what feels the best to me. Surprisingly my conlang is not a cypher The conlangs I actually sit down and engineer to be a certain way never end up very good, or I lose interest in them very quickly. Niđalos is the exception.

I cannot remember where I came up with the name for my conlang. The other one I kind of have at the moment, Nezen, is just a "regionalisation" of the main language, Niđalos.

[Dormouse559]

I like to set certain goals or parameters for my conlangs, an aesthetic or a set of features, things like that. Culëaca, a conlang I've posted on here with, was an attempt to create a conlang with historic roots (a new thing for me at the time) and a slightly Latin-esque vibe. Mirona was partially intended to take the idea of a proto-language even farther (almost every Modern Mironese word has an Old Mironese equivalent); I also wanted to make a conlang set in the modern world. Jattonkvo is an attempt to work with a more minimal phonology and include features I've been wanting to use, such as phonemic consonant/vowel length, lack of phonemic voicing, and SOV word order.

Often when I first start a conlang I can't stand it, but if I stick with it long enough to work out the major kinks, I grow really attached to it.

On language names, I often do like Kaylee, look at the conculture around the conlang and decide what elements stand out in the collective psyche of the people. But I will also often form the roots I use specifically for the name, so that it sounds attractive to me. Jattonkvo is a bit of an exception to that since it means simply "Our Language". I'm considering making that the informal term and creating a more imaginative formal name.

[Irkan]

I want to ask something and, as it's just a small doubt, I think I'll post it here.
The thing is... how do you call a sentence ending with an interrobang? (for example: What‽) Because it's neither a quastion nor an exclamation...

The names of all my conlangs are just translations of the word "language"

I do the same thing XD
But I think I'll try to create something better this time...

[Dormouse559]

I want to ask something and, as it's just a small doubt, I think I'll post it here.
The thing is... how do you call a sentence ending with an interrobang? (for example: What‽) Because it's neither a quastion nor an exclamation...

I'd call it both. So an exclamatory question or an interrogative exclamation, something like that. (And it's so cool to find someone else who knows of the interrobang!! )