Massimiliano - Montana Salish (Séliš) (Salish-Pend d'Oreille)

[Massimiliano B]

That's good! I would like to see that I'm not alone in the universe.

[księżycowy]

Nope, you're not the only weirdo here.

(I'm joking of course)

[Massimiliano B]

So the particle t has two meanings:

1) it indicates the object or thing receiving the action of a verb in its intransitive form:

iɫn t pataq ɫu Stipn = Stephen ate a potato (iɫn = he ate; t pataq = object of the verb);

2) it expresses the agent of a transitive verb:

iɫis ɫu pataq t Stipn = Stephen ate a potato (iɫis = he-ate-it; t Stipn = Stephen-agent).

iɫn and iɫis are two forms of the same verb: the first form means "he/she/it ate", while the second means "he/she/it ate it". The second form is transitive because it incorporates the object (it), and the first is intransitive because it expresses only the subject (he, she, or it).

The particle ɫu means "secondary importance" (A grammar of Spokan, page 53): so, when a verb is intransitive (as in sentence number 1), the subject has secondary importance; on the other hand, with a transitive verb it's the object that has secondary importance (sentence number 2) (I'm not sure of this. )


The transitive paradigm (see here, page 37) in Montana Salish has a great complexity. Object and subject suffixes are added to the verb stem in its transitive form, which ends in -nte- . Let's look again first at the intransitive conjugation:

čn čšt̓im = I guarded
kʷ čšt̓im = you guarded
čšt̓im = he/she guarded
qe čšt̓im = we guarded
p čšt̓im = you (plural) guarded
čšt̓iʔim = they guarded


čšt̓ is the base of the verb. It is unstressed, because there are no vowels. The particle -nte-is added to it in order to make it transitive:

čšt̓nte

To this stem the object and subject suffixes are added. The following are the subject suffixes:

n = I
xʷ = you
s = he/she/it
qe (before the verb) -m = we
p = you (plural)
ʔes = they


The forms which refer to general third person singular object have only a subject marked; third person object is understood:

čšt̓nten = I guarded her/him/it
čšt̓ntexʷ = you guarded her/him/it
čšt̓ntes = she/he guarded her/he/it
qe čšt̓ntem = we guarded her/him/it
čšt̓ntep = you all guarded her/him/it
čšt̓nteʔes =they guarded her/him/it

The stress is on the vowel e.

At the beginning of this post I've written that "she/he/it ate it" is iɫis. The regular form should be iɫntes. This depends on the base: here, the base iɫn is stressed and this causes some phonetic changes in the object and subject suffixes (see here, pages 31-32): iɫ-nte-s becomes iɫ-nt-s, then iɫ-n-s and then iɫ-i-s.

That's all for today.

[Massimiliano B]

Today I studied some elementary sentences taken from here, lesson 1, and from other resources I have:

kʷ ec̓ščén̓ = How are you?
i čn x̣es = I'm well

x̣es is a stative verb. It means "she/he/it was (and still is) well". In Montana Salish and Kalispel languages you have not to say "I'm well", but "I've been well (and still I am)", because the state of wellness began before the present time. This is the complete conjugation:

čn x̣es = I'm well (literally "I was well")
kʷ x̣es = you're well
x̣es = he/she/It is well
qe x̣es = we are well
p x̣es = you all re well
x̣eʔes = they are well

"I'm tired" is čnes ʔáyx̣ʷti, which means "I'm (right now) tired". The particle -es in čnes and the letter i at the end of ʔáyx̣ʷti transform the verb into a present tense. I wonder why the form is not čn ʔáyx̣ʷt


Another sentence:

swet ɫu askʷest? = What is your name? (skʷést = name)
John ɫu iskʷest = My name is John.

"My name" should be inskʷést and "your name" anskʷést, but ins- and ans- become is- and as-.

Another way to answer this question is:

čn John = I (am) John.



And now the numbers (from here, lesson 2):

nk̓ʷuʔ = one
ʔesél = two
čeʔɫés = three
mus = four
cil = five
t̓aq̓n =six
sisp̓l̓= seven
heʔén̓m = eight
x̣n̓ut = nine (the dot should be under x)
ʔupn = ten
ʔupn eɫ n̓k̓ʷuʔ = (ten + one) eleven
etc.
ʔeslʔúpn = (two times ten) twenty
ʔeslʔúpn éɫ nk̓ʷuʔ = twenty-one
etc.
čeɫlʔúpn = thirty
m̓sɫʔupn = forty
clčɫʔupn = fifty
tq̓nčɫʔupn = sixty
ssp̓l̓č̓ɫʔupn = seventy
heʔn̓mɫʔupn = eighty
x̣x̣n̓tɫʔupn = ninety
nk̓ʷoʔqéy= one hundred


I greet you with this tangle of sounds:

kʷ sk̓ʷnšspentč? = how old are you? (spentč means "year")

The answer may be this:

čn _____smx̣ʷop = I'm ______ years old; literally this means "I'm ____ snows"

or this:

čn ______ spentč (I'm _____ years old).

[Struthiomimus]

And now the numbers (from here, lesson 2):

nḱʷuʔ = one
ʔesél = two
čeʔɫés = three
mus = four
cil = five
t̓aq̓n =six
sisp̓l̓ = seven
heʔén̓m = eight
x̣n̓ut = nine (the dot should be under x)
ʔupn = ten
ʔupn eɫ n̓k̓ʷuʔ = (ten + one) eleven
etc.
ʔeslʔúpn = (two times ten) twenty
ʔeslʔúpn éɫ nk̓ʷuʔ = twenty-one
etc.
čeɫlʔúpn = thirty
m̓sɫʔupn = forty
clčɫʔupn = fifty
tq̓nčɫʔupn = sixty
ssp̓l̓č̓ɫʔupn = seventy
heʔn̓mɫʔupn = eighty
x̣x̣n̓tɫʔupn = ninety
nk̓ʷoʔqéy = one hundred

Cool. Numbers rock

I greet you with this tangle of sounds:

kʷ sk̓ʷnšspentč? = how old are you? (spentč means "year")

hahaha I see you've scared yourself again!

[Massimiliano B]

I greet you with this tangle of sounds:

kʷ sk̓ʷnšspentč? = how old are you? (spentč means "year")

hahaha I see you've scared yourself again!

I like the consonant clusters of this language!!



Today I studied a little how a polysynthetic language works (taken from here). So:

kʷtunt = literally "it is big"
citxʷ = literally "it is a house" or "it's a tipi"


kʷtunt citxʷ = the house is big (literally: "it is big it is a house")

Many words (or maybe all the words; I don't know yet) have a short form, which never stands alone. The short form of kʷtunt ("it's big") is kʷtn and that of citxʷ ("it's a house") is eɫxʷ or ɫxʷ. And now the magic: by putting together the short forms I obtain (may I say "obtain" here?) a different sentence:

kʷtneɫxʷ = it's a big house

Here, "big house" is only one word, like an hypothetical english word *biouse.

The long form kʷtunt is a predicative adjective, while the short form kʷtn is an attributive adjective.

That's all for today!

[Massimiliano B]

As I said in a previous post, M. Salish has transitive personal pronouns, used when a verb incorporate the object. They have a past, a present, and a future form.


These are the first three persons of the present tense:

First person singular (ies):

kʷ ies čšt̓im = I guard you (kʷ = you-object; ies = I; čšt̓im = guard)
ies čšt̓im = I guard him her/him/it (the third person singular object is understood)
p ies čšt̓im = I guard you all (p = you all)
ies čšt̓iʔim = I guard them (glottal stop and vowel indicate a third person plural object)

Second person singular (as):

qʷo as čšt̓im = you guard me (qʷo = me; as = you)
as čšt̓im = you guard him/her/it
qe es čšt̓ɫult = you guard us (qe -ɫult = us; as become es maybe because there is the "e" of "qe")
as čšt̓iʔim = you guard them

Third person singular (es verb-s):

qʷo es čšt̓ims = he/she guards me (qʷo = me; es -s = he/she; čšt̓im = guard )
kʷ es čšt̓ims = he/she guards you (kʷ = you-object)
es čšt̓ims = he/she guards him/her
qe es čšt̓ɫuls = he/she guards us (qe -ɫul- = us)
p es čšt̓ims he/she guards you all (p= you all)
es čšt̓iʔims he/she guards them



I studied also that ha is the interrogative particle. For example:

ha anx̣menč ɫu smɫičn? = Do you like salmon?

x̣menč means "to like" or "to love". an means "your". So, anx̣menč literally means "your like/your love"

[księżycowy]

We may be only half way through this 'contest,' but I think we have a winner!*

At least I know what I'm studying after I get a ways with Lakȟótiyapi. Some dxʷləšúcid.


*No, not really. At least not yet.

[Struthiomimus]

We may be only half way through this 'contest,' but I think we have a winner!*

Really? Good, I'll just retire now.

And now the magic: by putting together the short forms I obtain (may I say "obtain" here?) a different sentence:

Yeah, you can.

[Massimiliano B]

We may be only half way through this 'contest,' but I think we have a winner!*


*No, not really. At least not yet.

I like this 'contest' very much! I used to study languages alone, but now I can share what I'm learning .

[księżycowy]

Yes, it's very fascinating to read the grammar notes you've made! Keep 'em coming!

[Massimiliano B]

This is the rest of the transitive paradigm with unstressed base (taken from Selish dictionary and here, pages 38 and 39):


First person plural (es / qe es):

kʷ es čšt̓im = we guard you (kʷ = you-object; es = we)
qe es čšt̓im = we guard her/him (qe es = we; third person singular object is understood)
p es čšt̓im = we quard you all (p = you all - object; es = we)
es čšt̓iʔim = we guard them (es = we; ʔ-vowel = them)


Second person plural (es (verb)-p):

qʷo es čšt̓imp = you all guard me (qʷo = me; es -p = you all)
es čšt̓imp = you all guard him/her (es -p = you all; third person singular object is understood)
qe es čšt̓ɫult = you all guard us (qe -ɫult = us; es = you all)
es čšt̓iʔimp = you all guard them (es -p = you all; ʔ -vowel = them)


Third person plural (es ʔ -vowel and -s):

qʷo es čšt̓iʔims = they guard me (qʷo = me; es ʔ]-vowel and final -s = they)
kʷ es čšt̓iʔims = they guard you (kʷ = you-object)
es čšt̓iʔims = they guard her/him (third person singular object is understood)
qe es čšt̓iʔims = they guard us (qe = us)
p es čšt̓iʔims = they guard you all (p = you all - object)
es čšt̓iʔiʔims = they guard them (this form contains two glottal stops: one of them is part of the way the third person plural subject is marked, and one indicates a third person plural object).

That's all

[Massimiliano B]

Today I studied some basic vocabulary:

unéʔ = "it's true", or "yes".

ʔe = yes.

ta = "no". All the Salish and Kalispel words beginning with a vowel are preceded by a glottal stop, even though it is not marked. So, unéʔ (yes) is pronounced [ʔuneʔ].

lemlmtš = thanks. tš are two distinct sound [t-ʃ], not one [tʃ]. The letter fo [tʃ] is č

nteʔ = need, like

úʔuseʔ = "egg", or "eggs"


Now I can build the following sentence:

ha kʷes nteʔ t úʔuseʔ ? = do you want some eggs? (ha = interrogative particle; kʷes =you-present tense)

to which I can answer

ʔe, or unéʔ

or

ta,lemlmtš

The followings words are stative verbs, translated in english as adjectives. They imply the past tense of the verb "to be":

skʷk̓ʷiml̓t = literally: he/she/it was young. The actual meaning in english is "he/she/it IS young".
p̓x̣ʷót = literally: she/he/it was old.
q̓ʷoct = literally: she/he/it was fat
čta = literally: she/he/it was skinny
kʷtnalqʷ = literally: she/he/it was tall
ɫkʷk̓ʷim̓á = literally: she/he/it was short
č̓sus = literally: she/he/it was ugly-face
swinúmt = literally: she/he/it was beautiful
yoyóot = literally: she/he/it was strong


The word tam, put before a personal pronoun, turns a verb into the negative form.

Now I can describe a person or a thing (it's easy ):

kʷ swiʔnúmt = you are beautiful

tam kʷtnalqʷ = she/he/it is not tall

The first personal pronoun čn turns into čibefore a word beginning with s+consonant.


The word č̓sus (ugly face) is composed by č̓s-, a prefix indicating "ugly", and -us, which is a suffix indicating "face" (also -s). The indipendent word for "ugly" is kʷskʷst (literally "he/she/it is ugly") and that of "face" is skʷƛ̓us (literaly "it is a face").

There are many affixes in Salish and Kalispel. I know the following:

-us and -s = face
-eɫxʷ and -ɫxʷ = house
n-(word)-aqs and n-(word)-qs = nose; road

These words are put together with adjectives or verbs in order to form a sentence. For example: with óol̓ (it's slick) and n- -qs (road or nose) I can say i nóol̓qs = it's a slick road (here n- -qs means "road", because a nose cannot be slick!). The i emphasizes that the situation is to be specially noted.

That's all for today

[Massimiliano B]

Today I studied that some stative verbs refer to recent or new conditions, and they require a present tense (personal pronoun+es and verb+i):

ha kʷes čsq̓mélti? = Are you hungry? (čs̓̓q̓mélti = she/he/it is hungry)
unéʔ, čnes čsq̓melti= Yes, I'm hungry.
ta, tam čnes čsq̓melti = No, I'm not hungry.

The following are some of the stative verbs which require the present tense:

nx̣mpci = she/he/it is thirsty.
áyx̣ʷti = she/he/it is tired.
npiyélsi = she/he is happy.


Other stative verbs indicate old conditions (or "older" than the first kind of condition) or anyway something that affects the subject since long time; this condition is part of the substance of the subject. These verbs require the past tense:

ha kʷ šal̓l̓ = Are you bored? (not: ha kʷes šal̓l̓i?).
uneʔ, čn šal̓l̓ = Yes, I'm bored.
ta, tam čn šal̓l̓ = No, I'm not bored.

Here are some of the stative verbs which require the past tense:

k̓ʷɫpip = she/he is disappointed.
šal̓l̓ = she/he is bored.
sisyús = she/he is smart.
x̣opt = she/he is lazy.
́́ɫen = she/he is serious.
x̣stm̓e = she/he is funny.
c̓eʔšémn = she/he is shy.



Shocking-amazing word of the day:

sčč̓melpstšn = thighs

[księżycowy]

Shocking-amazing word of the day:

sčč̓melpstšn = thighs

Holy crap!

This language is reminding me more and more of Georgian*! Damn, now I want to learn Lushootseed AND Georgian.

*Cause of the crazy phonology and consonant clusters.

[Massimiliano B]

Shocking-amazing word of the day:

sčč̓melpstšn = thighs

Holy crap!

This language is reminding me more and more of Georgian*! Damn, now I want to learn Lushootseed AND Georgian.

*Cause of the crazy phonology and consonant clusters.

I think that Montana Salish has more complicated consonant clusters than Georgian and maybe even than Lushootseed. For example:

šƛ̓mil̓š = row, line. The plural is šƛ̓šƛ̓mil̓š (some words form the plural by a reduplication of the stem or a part of it);

and this

snšlšlčmncútn = round dance;

or this:

nx̣ʷlx̣ʷlq̓šintn = roller skates.

As for complicated consonant clusters, I think this language is invincible!

[księżycowy]

I think that M.Salish and Kalispel have more complicated consonant clusters than Georgian and maybe even than Lushootseed.

Yup, your examples say it all. This language is awesome.
And yes, it's much more complex then either of those. I'll start with the "easy" ones first. Perhaps I should say "easier" instead . . . .


And, yes, I know that Georgian is a Caucasian language, not a NAIL. In case anyone's confused.

[Struthiomimus]

Shocking-amazing word of the day:

sčč̓melpstšn = thighs

Holy crap!

This language is reminding me more and more of Georgian*! Damn, now I want to learn Lushootseed AND Georgian.

*Cause of the crazy phonology and consonant clusters.

[Massimiliano B]

Today I studied different things.

I have always to remember that the basic form of a M. Salish verb is the past tense in the third person singular. Therefore, a verb like sust literally means "she/he drank", and not "to drink".
Also a noun is actually a verb; so, it's better to call it a noun-verb. A noun is something which indicates a substance; a noun-verb is not something: it's a process. A word in the M. Salish language is thus a process of being something. This is the most striking feature of all the languages of the Salishan family. So, kapi means "it's coffee" (or "it was coffee"? I think the second; but the vocabulary sometimes translates the english nouns with the expression "it is (something)"... ).


Here are some drinks:

sqʔém = it's milk.

séwɫkʷ = it's water.

lití = it's tea.

nx̣ʷoskʷ = it's beer. This word is composed by the circumfix n...etkʷ ( = liquid) and the root word x̣ʷos ( = it's foam).

nkʷil̓kʷ = it's wine. The prefix n- indicates inside. It often goes together with the suffix -kʷ (water) because the water is usually inside a container; kʷil means "red".


The sentence "ha kʷes nte kʷqs susti?" means: "Do you want something to drink?". ha is the interrogative particle, kʷes is the present tense of the second person singular, nte means "desire" (the vocabulary has also the form ntels for "want, desire"; I don't understand why this form is shorter), kʷqs is the future tense of the second person singular, and susti comes from sust (literally "she/he drank): the final -i is added to the verb stem in the present tense and in the future. Literally, this sentence is: "Do you want you will drink?"


I can express a desire also using the following circumfix (I've read that circumfixes are a unique feature of the salishan languages): n...els . It comes from ntels (to desire, to want). It indicates a want/desire/need to do some action. Here are some examples:

nxʷyelsm = want to go. xʷuy means "go".
nwnšels = want to war dance. wénš is "war dance"
nčšnmels = want to accompany. čšnim means "go with, accompany".

For example, If I want to say " I want to go" I can say čnes nxʷyelsmi.

I already studied that ...etkʷ or ...tkʷ are two suffixes which mean "water". What I didn't know is that I can add a suffix to a word root in order to give more informations, like in xʷstnetkʷ, which means "walk near water" (from xʷist = "walk", and the suffix ...etkʷ = "water") and nxʷstaqs walk on the road (n...aqs = "nose" or "road". xʷst comes from the root xʷist = she/he went)



Shoking-amazing word of the day :

snčsplqmncútn = old warrior dance song

[Massimiliano B]

Here is the past tense of the transitive paradigm with unstressed base (taken from here (last pages of the book; they have no number) and here, page 38):


čšt̓... is the base. it is unstressed

...nte... is the transitive suffix. It has the stress.


First person singular:

čšt̓ncin = I guarded you (-n = I; second person sing. object: -si-, but čšt̓-nte-si becomes čšt̓ntsi- (written čšt̓nci).
čšt̓nten = I guarded her/him (-n = I; third person singular object is understood).
čšt̓ɫulmn = I guarded you all (-n = I; -ɫulm = you all (object). This suffix replaces the transitive suffix -nte-).
čšt̓nteʔen = I guarded them (-n = I; glottal stop = them).


Second person singular:

qʷo čšt̓ntexʷ = You guarded me (-xʷ = you; qʷo = me).
čšt̓ntexʷ = You guarded him/her (-xʷ = you; third person singular object is understood).
qe čšt̓ɫult = you guarded us (-t = you; qe/-ɫul- = us).
čšt̓nteʔexʷ = you guarded them (-xʷ = you; glottal stop = them).


Third person singular:

qʷo čšt̓ntes= He/she guarded me (-s = he/she; qʷo = me).
čšt̓ncis = He/she guarded you (-s = he/she; -ci- = you-object).
čšt̓ntes = He/she guarded him (-s = he/she; third person singular object is understood).
qe čšt̓ɫuls = He/she guarded us (-s = he/she; qe and -ɫul- = us).
čšt̓ɫulms = he/she guarded you all (-s = he/she; -ɫulm = you all (object). This suffix replaces the transitive suffix -nte-).
čšt̓nteʔes = he/she guarded them (-s = he/she; glottal stop = them).

First person plural:

čšt̓ncit = We guarded you (-t = we; -si- is the second person singular object).
qe čšt̓ntem = We guarded him/her (qe and -m = we; third person singular object is understood).
čšt̓ɫulmt = We guarded you all (-t: we; -ɫulm = you all (object). This suffix replaces the transitive suffix -nte-).
qe čšt̓nteʔem = We guarded them (qe and -m = we; glottal stop = them).


Second person plural:

qʷo čšt̓ntep = You all guarded me ( -p = you all; qʷo = me).
čšt̓ntep = You all guarded her/him (-p = you all; third person singular object is understood).
qe čšt̓ɫult = You all guarded us (-qe/-ɫul = us; t = you all).
čšt̓nteʔep = You all guarded them (-p = you all; glottal stop = them).


Third person plural:

qʷo čšt̓nteʔes = They guarded me (glottal stop and -s = they; qʷo = me).
čšt̓nciʔis = They guarded you (glottal stop and -s = they; -ci = you-object).
čšt̓nteʔes = They guarded her/him (glottal stop and-s = they; third person singular object is understood).
qe čšt̓ɫuʔuls = They guarded us ( glottal stop and -s = they; qe and -ɫul = us).
čšt̓ɫuʔulms = They guarded you all (glottal stop and -s indicate the third person plural subject; the object is ɫulm = you all). This suffix replaces the transitive suffix -nte-).
čšt̓nteʔeʔes = They guarded them (glottal stop and -s = they; the second glottal stop = them).

It's very complicated