Ainu

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Karavinka
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Re: Minority language rights in Japan

Postby Karavinka » 2011-05-24, 17:52

Japan maintains an extremely assimilationist approach towards all minorities, including Ainu and Ryukyu. It has to be remembered that Ainu territory (Hokkaido, formerly Ezo) and Ryukyu never was under Japanese administration until the modern times.
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Re: Minority language rights in Japan

Postby hashi » 2011-05-24, 23:45

Karavinka wrote:Japan maintains an extremely assimilationist approach towards all minorities, including Ainu and Ryukyu. It has to be remembered that Ainu territory (Hokkaido, formerly Ezo) and Ryukyu never was under Japanese administration until the modern times.


Don't forget Korean immigrants.

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Re: Conversation in Ainu

Postby Śrāmaṇera » 2011-05-25, 10:36

削除した方がいいと思います。

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Re: Conversation in Ainu

Postby hashi » 2011-05-25, 10:53

Nejimakidori wrote:削除した方がいいと思います。


どうして?

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Re: Conversation in Ainu

Postby Śrāmaṇera » 2011-05-25, 14:23

いつも傲慢と誇りがあいまって各国の言語がうまく話せると言っているのに、書いた文は間違いだらけです。カラビンカさんにはセザレさんのことが頭にくるでしょう。 同感しますよ。

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Re: Conversation in Ainu

Postby hashi » 2011-05-25, 22:52

Nejimakidori wrote:いつも傲慢と誇りがあいまって各国の言語がうまく話せると言っているのに、書いた文は間違いだらけです。カラビンカさんにはセザレさんのことが頭にくるでしょう。 同感しますよ。


オケ :)

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Re: Conversation in Ainu

Postby Karavinka » 2011-05-26, 6:22

削除するのは簡単ですけど、このまま置いたほうがいいでしょう。馬鹿がまた自分で憤慨して騒ぐのもめんどうですし。
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Re: Conversation in Ainu

Postby Unknown » 2011-05-30, 10:53

Ok, I think we should end that discussion. Let's actually start the Ainu conversation so I can practice the language:

ウウェランカラプ  アン ナー。 イランカラプテー。 ヘマンタ ネプキ ア・キ コロ アナン? 

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Re: Ainu Basic Vocabulary

Postby Eginhard » 2011-06-09, 22:57

3. About Facilities around the House - 家屋の周辺施設について (20)

アシニasinitoilet
メノコアシニmenokoasiniwomen's toilet
オㇰカヨアシニokkayoasinimen's toilet
オソマosomafeces
オクィマokuymaurine
カムィセッ
ヘペㇾセッ
ヘペㇾチセ
kamuyset
heperset
hepercise
cage to keep a bear cub
ヘペㇾheperbear cub
pufood storehouse
プケマpukemastilts of the food storehouse
プアパpuapaentrance to the food storehouse
ニカラnikarastairs
ヌサコㇿカムィnusakorkamuygod responsible for the nusa (offerings)
ポンヌサponnusasmall nusa
ポロヌサporonusabig nusa
ポンponsmall
ポロporobig
ruroad, path
ウナunaash


These nusa are "clusters of inao which the Ainu place outside their east windows or upon the seashore as offerings to the gods". And these inao are "whittled pieces of willow, lilac and other wood which are stuck in the ground as offerings to the gods." [John Batchelor - An Ainu-English-Japanese Dictionary] The bear cubs are also used for religious purposes.
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Re: Ainu Basic Vocabulary

Postby md0 » 2011-06-09, 23:26

Is Ainu completely unrelated to Japanese? Because I see some patterns and I don't know if they derive from the same root or if they are loan words or just plain coincidence.
kamuy-神
menoko-女(め)の子
okkayo-おとこ
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Re: Ainu Basic Vocabulary

Postby hashi » 2011-06-10, 2:11

meidei wrote:Is Ainu completely unrelated to Japanese? Because I see some patterns and I don't know if they derive from the same root or if they are loan words or just plain coincidence.
kamuy-神
menoko-女(め)の子
okkayo-おとこ


Totally unrelated. They're not even ethnically the same.

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Re: Ainu Basic Vocabulary

Postby Eginhard » 2011-06-10, 12:37

Japanese 神 originates from Ainu カムィ as far as I know. The other two are probably mere coincidences and rather far-fetched.

By the way, Wikipedia offers some more information on that nusakorkamuy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nusakoro_Kamuy
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Re: Ainu Basic Vocabulary

Postby md0 » 2011-06-10, 12:47

hashi wrote:Totally unrelated. They're not even ethnically the same.

Shared the same region though, I wouldn't be surprised if they shared some words as well.
But these 3 I noticed are probably coincidences.
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Re: Ainu Basic Vocabulary

Postby hashi » 2011-06-11, 0:45

meidei wrote:
hashi wrote:Totally unrelated. They're not even ethnically the same.

Shared the same region though, I wouldn't be surprised if they shared some words as well.
But these 3 I noticed are probably coincidences.


It's natural for there to be loan words, particularly when the more technologically advanced Japanese bring all these new ideas, the Ainu are naturally going to stem words from the Japanese.

They have only shared the same land for the last 200 years, and by share, I mean they were robbed of their land because Japan only colonised and decided to "cleanse" Hokkaido because they did not want Russia claiming control of such a "barbaric" population first.

*Is writing his thesis partially on this*

</rant>

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Re: Ainu Basic Vocabulary

Postby Karavinka » 2011-06-11, 3:24

Eginhard wrote:Japanese 神 originates from Ainu カムィ as far as I know. The other two are probably mere coincidences and rather far-fetched.

By the way, Wikipedia offers some more information on that nusakorkamuy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nusakoro_Kamuy


Ainu word "Kamuy" is cognate with both Japanese "Kami" and "Kuma" (bear) and the Korean word for "bear" is 곰 kom, and certain Shamanist texts have -감 -kam as "God" (rarely as an independent word, though). This is a shared loanword from Old Chinese: *Gum (熊): bears were identified with gods, and uttering the words for "bear" in the native languages were taboo. The word "bear" is likewise taboo'ed and replaced with laonwords in the Tungusic languages as well.
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Re: Ainu Basic Vocabulary

Postby Eginhard » 2011-06-11, 21:32

Thanks for the clarification!

This time the words are a bit more useful. :D

4. Family Terms - 親族呼称 (30)

オㇰカヨokkayoman
メノコmenokowoman
エカㇱekasgrandfather
フッチfutcigrandmother
ミチmicifather
ハポhapomother
ユポyupoolder brother
サポsapoolder sister
アキakiyounger brother
トゥレㇱturesyounger sister (from a male's perspective)
マタキmatakiyounger sister (from a female's perspective)
アチャポacapouncle
ウナㇻペunarpeaunt
クアニkuaniI
エアニeaniyou
ヘカチhekaciboy
マッカチmatkacigirl
マチカチmacikacigirl (Shiraoi dialect)
ポンメノコponmenokogirl (lit.: small woman, a little bigger than matkaci)
カッケマッkatkematwife (of someone else)
マッmatwife
ホクフhokuhuhusband
カㇻクkarkunephew
マッカㇻクmatkarkuniece
アィアィayaybaby
ミㇷ゚ポmippograndson, granddaughter
サニsaniancestry
ウェンペwenpebad person
ウタㇻutarrelatives
ウタリutarirelatives (Shiraoi dialect)


Some examples sentences are also provided, I'll just summarise the gist:

1. For people older than you you use "ク コㇿ/エ コㇿ - ku kor/e kor":
ク コㇿ ハポ。 - Ku kor hapo. - My mother.
エ コㇿ ユポ。 - E kor yupo. - Your older brother.

2. For people younger than you the "コㇿ - kor" is always left out:
ク アキ。 - Ku aki. - My younger brother.

2.
For people of one's own family the "コㇿ - kor" can also be left out:
ク フッチ。 - Ku futci. - My grandmother.
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Romaji -> Ainu Katakana Converter

Postby Eginhard » 2011-06-13, 21:30

Ever been annoyed by copying the small special Katakana for Ainu from somewhere to type something in Ainu or didn't bother to type something in Katakana because of that?

Here's the solution: http://ainu-itak.de.vu/ (sorry, no proper domain yet)

I had some free time this afternoon and wrote this little tool because I didn't know any other comfortable way to write Ainu. It is very intuitive to use, just type and you'll get the conversion into Ainu Katakana immediately. All small Katakana can also be accessed with a preceding "l" or "x" like in the Japanese IME, but now including the special Katakana as well. However, usually there should be no need for this, just typing will already give you the correct result.

It should work quite accurately, but if you spot any mistakes in converting or have any other suggestions, let me know!
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Re: Romaji -> Ainu Katakana Converter

Postby md0 » 2011-06-13, 21:53

Wow, congrats. It's great. You can't easily type the small katakana consonants even with a Japanese IME (only small ア行、ヤ行, ヮ, ヵ, and ヶ are available on my IME).
I tried the few words I know and no misconversions as far as I can tell.

PS. Speaking about IMEs, I think it's easy to develop a conversion machine for iBus. I think it uses python.
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Re: Romaji -> Ainu Katakana Converter

Postby Karavinka » 2011-06-14, 6:37

Thank you for sharing this wonderful work! I'm pretty sure that it'll help those who prefer Katakana over Roman in writing Ainu...
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Re: Ainu and Inuit (Yupik/Aleut) comparison

Postby hindupridemn » 2011-07-31, 23:20

I know the Ainu have a lot of genetic similarities to the eskimo-Aleut peoples.


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