księżyc - Aleut

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księżyc - Aleut

Postby księżycowy » 2009-12-17, 2:15

I am somewhat taken back by the lask of discussion on Aleut or Yup'ik on this forum! All-be-it I do find solace in the fact that their seems to be a some what consistent interest in Inuktitut (which I'm also interested in learning) and Greenlandic. But let's not forget the other two major languages of this language family! In the interest of this ideal, I' ve taken it upon myself to start posting some grammar notes on Aleut as I make it through the book I'm using to learn Aleut. (Do not expect lessons, as I am a learner myself, these are just grammar notes I'm sharing for your viewing pleasure!) Not sure if there will be much interest, but we'll see after my first post, eh?

Aleut Alphabet:
Most of the Aleutian alphabet is approximately pronounced as in English
(IPA is provided for some sounds)

[For font issues see below.]

Vowels:
a = 'a' in 'lava'
aa = 'a' in 'father' (a bit longer)
i = 'i' in 'hit'
ii = 'ea' in 'bead'
u = 'u' in 'put'
uu = 'o' in 'who'

Consonants (similar to English):
ch = 'ch' in 'chip'
d = 'th' in 'the' (ð in IPA) (NOT 'd' in 'dog')
h = 'h' in 'help'
k = 'k' in 'kite'
l = 'l' in 'lamp'
m = 'm' in 'meet'
n = 'n' in 'need'
ng = 'ng' in 'sing' (ŋ in IPA) (not at n+g as in 'ng' in 'finger')
s = 's' in 'sing' (though as 'z' in 'zinc in loan words)
t = 't' in 'top'
y = 'y' in 'yearn'
w = 'w' in 'well'
z = 'z' in 'zinc'

Borrowed Sounds:
b = 'b' in 'book'
f = 'f' in 'face'
p = 'p' in 'pepper'
r = Either as Russian r (r in IPA) or as in English 'r' in 'red' (ɹ in IPA)
v = 'v' in 'vain'

Difficult Letters:
g = French 'r' (ɣ in IPA)
x = German 'ch' as in 'ich' (x in IPA)
ĝ = This sound is hard to describe, it's like Aleut 'g' but deeper in the throat (ʁ in IPA)
= Same as for ĝ only it's a deeper x ( χ in IPA)
hl = similar to the 'lh' in Tibetan, or 'll' in Welsh (ɬ in IPA)
hm = 'h' + 'm'
hn = 'h' + 'n'
hng = 'h' + 'ng'
hy = 'h' + 'y'
hw = 'h' + 'w'

As a note n'g = 'n' + 'g', as a way to differentiate it from 'ng'

Now on to Grammar:
Personal Pronouns:
Like most (if not all) Eskimo-Aleut languages, Aleut has a dual form of personal pronouns and personal endings.
I/WeYouHe/She/It/They
Singulartingtxintxin
Dualtingintxidixtxidix
Pluraltingintxichixtxichix


Ex. txin yaxtakuq = I love you
Note the similarities between the 2nd and 3rd person pronouns in the dual and plural. Also note that these pronouns are used for the person/thing that is being acted upon, not the person/thing that is doing the act. In other words, the personal pronouns in Aleut are generally used for the direct/indirect object of the sentence, not the subject. And finally, the third person personal pronouns and endings do not account for the gender of the person/thing referenced.


Verbs:
Verbs in citation form tend to end in -l
Ex.
yaxtal - to love
tunux̂tal - to speak
ukux̂tal - to see, look at
achigal - to learn, study

This -l ending means more then just the citation form, but I'll get into that later after.

In order to get the base of the verb you simply take off the -l ending:
tunux̂ta-
yaxta-
ukux̂ta-
achiga-
It is this form that the ending for verbs are added.

Personal Endings:
These ending are added to verbs:
I/WeYouHe/She/It/They
Singular-q-t or -x̂t-x
Dual-s-txidix or -x̂txidix-x
Plural-s-txichix or -x̂txichix-s

A note about the 2nd person forms; the basic endings are '-t', '-txidix' and, '- txichix.' But in some cases a '--' is added to the base form. If the '-x̂' is added it will be stated as the following: ( -- for 2nd person) next to the entry about the ending in question.

Examples:
yaxtakuq - I love
yaxtakutxichix - You (pl.) love
achigax - They (dual) learn
ect.


Verb Ending for Present Tense/ General Statement:
-ku- = general statement ending ( -- for 2nd person)
This ending is added to the base of the verb to convey the general statement about what is happening, and conveys the present tense. Note however that where -ku- does denote what English would consider the present tense it does not convey the time that something occurred, it's usual purpose is just to convey a general statement about something.

examples:
yaxta + ku + q --> yaxtakuq = I love (present tense)
achiga + ku + x --> achigakux = They are learning
achiga + ku + + t --> achigakux̂t = You are learning
ect.

-laka- is the negation of -ku- ( -x̂- for 2nd person)

examples:
yaxta + laka + q --> yaxtalakaq = I don't love (present tense)
achiga + laka + x --> achigalakax = They are not learning
achiga + laka + + txidix --> achigalakax̂txidix = You (dual) are not learning
ect.

And that will do it for now.
Last edited by księżycowy on 2010-01-07, 20:11, edited 11 times in total.

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby Struthiomimus » 2009-12-17, 2:25

O wow! Another person interested in Yup'ik! I've learned a bit from Amaqqut...er Tukkumminnguaq, and the numbers from online. What are you using to learn it? (Also pardon for going off topic so early in the thread).
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"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2009-12-17, 2:35

Struthiomimus wrote:O wow! Another person interested in Yup'ik! I've learned a bit from Amaqqut...er Tukkumminnguaq, and the numbers from online. What are you using to learn it? (Also pardon for going off topic so early in the thread).


No worries as far as going off topic, though I had thought of starting Yu'pik thread as well (we'll see). For learning both Aleut and Yu'pik I'm using mostly books from ANCL (Alaska Native Language Center, for those that don't know) For Aleut I'm mainly using 'How the Alkans Talk: A Conversational Grammar" by A. Berge and M. Dirks. And, to answer your question, I'm using "A Practical Grammar of Central Alaskan Yu'pik Eskimo Language" by S. Jacobson. Though I do hope to get the Aleut Grammar and Dictionary by K. Bergsland soon.

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby Tukkumminnguaq » 2009-12-17, 22:17

Unangam tunuu tingis/tingin kidukux̂txin qaĝatakuq ama txin qaĝasaalgakuq!

(Im happy for you helping us about Aleut and thank you very much!)
[flag]en-ca[/flag][flag]sgn[/flag][flag]iu[/flag][flag]kl[/flag][flag]ale[/flag]
[flag]qu[/flag][flag]tr[/flag][flag]yrk[/flag][flag]evn[/flag][flag]ckt[/flag][flag]itl[/flag]

[̲̅̅N̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅b̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅d̲̅][̲̅̅y̲̅] [̲̅̅K̲̅][̲̅̅n̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅w̲̅][̲̅̅s̲̅][̲̅̅.̲̅] [̲̅̅L̲̅][̲̅̅i̲̅][̲̅̅f̲̅][̲̅̅e̲̅] [̲̅̅A̲̅][̲̅̅s̲̅] [̲̅̅T̲̅][̲̅̅h̲̅][̲̅̅e̲̅][̲̅̅y̲̅] [̲̅̅K̲̅][̲̅̅n̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅w̲̅] [̲̅̅I̲̅][̲̅̅t̲̅][̲̅̅.̲̅]

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2009-12-18, 20:47

Tukkumminnguaq wrote:Unangam tunuu tingis/tingin kidukux̂txin qaĝatakuq ama txin qaĝasaalgakuq!

(Im happy for you helping us about Aleut and thank you very much!)


Maqaĝaasakung (Your welcome.) Though I'll probably rely on your help just as much! But I'm happy to help were I can. Aleut is an interesting and very fascinating language (as are Yup'ik and Inuktitut). Though I am curious if anyone knows of any other resources to learn Aleut by. The book I'm using is good and even has audio available (which I have), but the book is not really meant to be an Aleut Textbook. Even the authors say so, though they do hope to create something more like a textbook out of it in the future (which would be great!). Anyway, anyone know of any other resources?

[And yes, I know this is a long shot. Just curious really. I do have the Aleut Grammar and Dictionary by Bergsland coming soon [hopefully] so I should be good between the three, but curious if anything else is out there, though I doubt it . . .]


More on topic, I'll try to add some more grammar in a few days, until then enjoy what I have so far!

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2009-12-23, 16:32

Number Formation:

Ok, this will probably by my last post for Aleut for the year, due to an apparent lack of interest. Though I might continue after the holidays . . . [I'd hate to have the thread die, but I'd also hate to be the only on learning here, though I do understand the fact that this is a 'strange' one to learn for most people]

Numbers 1-10:
ataqan = 1
alax = 2
qankus =3
siching =4
chaang =5
atuung = 6
uluung = 7
qamchiing = 8
sichiing = 9
hatix̂ = 10

To form the numbers 11-19 use the following principle
hatix̂ + [number 1-9] = number 11-19
For example
hatix̂ alax = 12
[10 + 2 = 12]

Two Form Numbers 20-99 the following principle is used:
[number 20-90] + [number 1-9, if necessary]

algidim hatix̂ = 20
qankudim hatix̂ = 30
sichidim hatix̂ = 40
chaangidim hatix̂ = 50
atuungidim hatix̂ = 60
uluungidim hatix̂ = 70
qamchiingidim hatix̂ = 80
sichiingidim hatix̂ = 90

Example:
qankudim hatix̂ sichiing = 39
[3 + 10 + 9 = 39]

For Numbers 100 - 999:
sisax̂ = 100
Thus:
alax sisax̂ = 200
atuung sisax̂ sichiingidim hatix̂ chaang = 695

More Numbers:
tiisichax̂ = 1000
maazaĝulax = 0
Last edited by księżycowy on 2010-01-07, 20:15, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby Mancko » 2009-12-23, 18:32

:hmm:
The translation page for Aleut numbers is a bit different for teens and tens.

That'd be great if you could update the wiki page and explain these (tiny) differences :mrgreen:

Thanks a lot!

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2009-12-23, 19:02

Mancko wrote::hmm:
The translation page for Aleut numbers is a bit different for teens and tens.

That'd be great if you could update the wiki page and explain these (tiny) differences :mrgreen:

Thanks a lot!

Sorry, that was a mistake :oops: I've got to watch that . . . Thanks for the correction (even if it wasn't originally meant to be one). Though there still seems to be a difference in the teens. I haven't gotten far enough in the grammar to know the difference in the endings -x̂, and -m. I would *guess* they're interchangeable, but as far as an explanation, that will have to wait.
[Most of all thanks for giving me faith that people are getting something out of my thread!! :D ]

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2009-12-30, 22:12

Ok, I just got 'Aleut Grammar' by Bergsland, so I decided to expand my first post.
Please excuse the tables right now. I ran out of time :evil: , so I'll fix them as soon as I can. In the mean time, gotta fly. Later.

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2010-01-01, 18:20

Ok, updated all the posts with the 'X' convention [which I'm hoping I can do away with soon, just got to find a good font . . .], and fixed the tables in the first post. I even added a little more to the grammar! Enjoy!

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2010-01-07, 21:01

Ok, I've finally solved the font issue, so this forum can get back on track. Unfortunately I imagine that the rest of you that wish to view this page may need to download the following font: Aboriginal Serif (not any of the other fonts). Also due to the complexity of the font and a necessity to type fluidly I created a windows based keyboard layout (sorry everyone else). Please tell me what you think of the keyboard layout. It uses the standard Qwerty English (USA) layout, but uses 'ctrl' with the 'g' and 'x' keys to get the 'ĝ' and '.'

[The keyboard layout uses the same font described above, so in order to use it you need to download it]

Anyway, more grammar on the way shortly!

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2010-01-22, 14:50

Ok, before anyone thinks this thread is dead (though I don't know how many are actively reading this :? ). I'm back to boggle your minds with more Aleut grammar. Though I have to confess, if you've also been reading my other threads for Inuktitut or Yup'ik, you might be sorely disappointed by my lack of posting. As I've decided to mostly focus on Aleut for now. I'll get back to the other two after I'm done with Aleut (and maybe a few other languages I'm currently learning). Sorry all (especially you, Struthiomimus).

Anyway, back to Aleut.
This post (and perhaps the next post or so) will be considerably shorter then the last few, and it will build off my post on numbers.

Ordinal Numbers:
Basic Concept: [Number] + hiisax̂
In other words:
uluung hiisax̂ -- 7th
sichidim hatix̂ hiisax̂ -- 40th
ect.
However
There are two special forms:
itaangisax̂ - first
agaluuĝix̂ - last


Fractions:
Basic Concept: [Number] + [Noun] + [ama] + [Fraction/Ordinal Number]
(If a number and noun (or just number) is used, then 'ama' is used)
ama = and
Some fractions:
angtaa - half
angtagan angtaa - quarter (i.e. half of a half)
qankum hiisax̂ sanaa - a third
sichidim hatim hiisax̂ sanaa - a fortieth
ect.

'sanaa' is a form of the verb 'sanal' which means to be sufficient; enough; the due amount. More on this later. For now consider sanaa as a form in-and-of-itself used for fractions.

now you can say:
qankus ama angtaa - 3 and a half
chaang qax̂ ama qankum hiisax̂ sanaa - 5 and a third fish (lit. 5 fish and a third; where qax̂ = fish)

you might have noticed the slight changes in qankum and hatim. This -m ending is used to show that these words are part of a phrase. This is the same ending that can be used in hatix̂ in counting from 11-19.
Ex.
hatim uluung - 17
hatix̂ uluung - 17
Both of these forms are interchangeable (to final answer your question Mancok). However it is my impression that hatix̂ uluung would be more common in the Aktan dialect (which is what I'm studying, and basing my notes on).

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby Struthiomimus » 2010-01-22, 23:26

Eh, no worries. Although it's kind of a bummer you won't be hanging around the Yup'ik thread as much, there's no need to apologize. Life is short and you have to study what you like, yeah? Although, how you manage studying twelve (or however many languages you're up to now) simultaneously still boggles my mind. :doggy: I can't even keep up with three properly :|
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"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2010-01-23, 0:28

Struthiomimus wrote:Eh, no worries. Although it's kind of a bummer you won't be hanging around the Yup'ik thread as much, there's no need to apologize. Life is short and you have to study what you like, yeah? Although, how you manage studying twelve (or however many languages you're up to now) simultaneously still boggles my mind. :doggy: I can't even keep up with three properly :|

Well I am studying quite a few, but I'm really only focusing on a few at a time. Not really trying to do them all at once, that would be insane, even for me! :twisted:
Right now I'm focusing mostly on Aleut, Kazakh, Mongolian, Pashto and Tibetan (though that's subject to change)

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2010-02-03, 11:09

Those with any observant aptitude towards people's signatures might note that I no longer have Aleut listed as one of my languages I'm learning. This is not to say I don't still have interest in Aleut, it just seems that it was always more of a passive learning, rather then active (like I'm going to go out and speak it or something). Anyway long story short, I'm still going to learn Aleut (though is will be quite slowly).
Thus the posts here will still be coming, just not as often (and I know they haven't been with any great speed lately :( ).

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2010-10-19, 21:13

Put some links to resources in the NAIL sub-forum.

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-17, 15:49

Well, ffrench has got me talking some Aleut in the new Multilingual thread, so I figure I'll resuscitate this (very! :shock:) old thread of mine.

I won't be as whiny as I was back then. It's surprising to read this thread and see how focused I was on how actively others were reading it.

I don't really want to dive into the deep end of the pool just yet, but I think for now I'll just post and parse sentences, and post other things I notice that catch my eye.
I'll save really learning Aleut for later. This is just to get my feet wet again. :P

At least I'm happy I'm reviving one of my old "projects." :D

Aang! Paweł asax̂takuq. Rochester ilagaan angix̂takuq. Alqutat? (From the multilingual thread)
What is interesting to note, much as ffrench already said there, is that there is no afix needed on your actual name or where you live.

The verbs asax̂takuq and angix̂takuq are also perfect examples of some of the verb forms we looked at ages ago:

asax̂ta-ku-q (asax̂tal = to have a name, be called)

angix̂ta-ku-q (angix̂tal = to originate/come from) [ilagaan = from]

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-22, 22:07

Here's a sentence from the "textbook" Aleut for Beginners. It's actually the very first sentence in the introduction.

Unangam tunu ax̂sasalix̂ agux̂tatgumin imin achigasada.



NOTE: I'll parse it later today or tomorrow.

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Re: Aleut Grammar

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-24, 17:57

I'm having a bit more trouble with the above sentence then I thought I would. :?

I'll keep working at it, but in the meantime I'll find/make a new sentence.

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Re: księżyc - Aleut

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-25, 11:27

Ah, the joys of digging up old threads..... :P

Anyway, Vijay has convinced me to work on some Aleut for the Powwow this year (I'm not so sure I'll keep working on it afterwards, due to my already full plate), so I thought I could use this thread again. I've also renamed it.

Would anyone like to start an Eskimo-Aleut study group (not restricted to Aleut), or shall we just use this thread for our purposes, Vijay?


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