Scots

Any language which does not have a specific forum can have a thread made for it here.
tuckstruckin17
Posts:1
Joined:2009-09-27, 6:06
Gender:male
Location:richmond
Country:USUnited States (United States)
i need a translation

Postby tuckstruckin17 » 2009-09-27, 6:12

i was wondering if anyone could translate a tattoo idea i have.. the word "breathe" and l"ive laugh and love" into scottish gaelic

User avatar
Johanna
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:6679
Joined:2006-09-17, 18:05
Real Name:Johanna
Gender:female
Location:Lidköping, Westrogothia
Country:SESweden (Sverige)

Re: i need a translation

Postby Johanna » 2009-09-27, 13:35

Wrong forum, posting a question about Gaelic here is about as smart as asking one about Icelandic in the Italian forum ;-)
Swedish (sv) native; English (en) good; Norwegian (no) read fluently, understand well, speak badly; Danish (dk) read fluently, understand badly, can't speak; Faroese (fo) read some, understand a bit, speak a few sentences; German (de) French (fr) Spanish (es) forgetting; heritage language.

YngNghymru
Posts:1537
Joined:2009-05-21, 10:08
Location:Wrexham (Wrecsam)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: i need a translation

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-09-27, 18:29

Not QUITE as stupid, since the two are at least spoken in the same country. But still pretty stupid. :P

Brethe. Lyve, lacht an lov (hurrah for archaic spellings).
[flag]en[/flag] native| [flag]cy[/flag] mwy na chdi | [flag]fr[/flag] plus d'un petit peu| [flag]ar[/flag] ليتي استطعت

ég sef á sófanum!

User avatar
Johanna
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:6679
Joined:2006-09-17, 18:05
Real Name:Johanna
Gender:female
Location:Lidköping, Westrogothia
Country:SESweden (Sverige)

Re: i need a translation

Postby Johanna » 2009-09-27, 23:33

YngNghymru wrote:Brethe. Lyve, lacht an lov (hurrah for archaic spellings).

That's really beautiful :)

I wonder why people always want tattoos in Gaelic when Scots is just as cool, easier to pronounce and certainly isn't any less pleasing to the ears :hmm: Especially since the chance that someone's ancestors spoke Scots is bigger than that they spoke Gaelic.
Swedish (sv) native; English (en) good; Norwegian (no) read fluently, understand well, speak badly; Danish (dk) read fluently, understand badly, can't speak; Faroese (fo) read some, understand a bit, speak a few sentences; German (de) French (fr) Spanish (es) forgetting; heritage language.

Eoghan
Posts:2169
Joined:2008-06-12, 9:34
Gender:male
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: i need a translation

Postby Eoghan » 2009-09-28, 0:02

Johanna wrote:
YngNghymru wrote:Brethe. Lyve, lacht an lov (hurrah for archaic spellings).

That's really beautiful :)

I wonder why people always want tattoos in Gaelic when Scots is just as cool, easier to pronounce and certainly isn't any less pleasing to the ears :hmm: Especially since the chance that someone's ancestors spoke Scots is bigger than that they spoke Gaelic.


Ehem. You shouldn't forget the fact that Scottish Gaelic was and is still spoken all over mainland Scotland and the Western Isles, so it's not that unusual with a Gaelic ancestor if you're Scottish. Regarding the tattoos I still agree though.
And Scots is not easier to pronounce. Its spelling just seems to be easier than the Gaelic one.

Anns a' Ghàidhlig;

Ehem, Chan chuir thu air cùl gun robh Gàidhlig a bha bruidhinn feadh gach mòr-thir agus na h-Eileanan Siar an Alba, is às a seo, chan eil e annasach gun robh Gàidhlig aig na sinnseaire a bha agad ma tha Albannach a th'annad. Ach, mu na sgeadan-craicinn, tha mise còrd riut a dh'aindeoin sin.
Agus chan eil Beurla Ghallda nas farasta a' labhair. Bi mar an speiligeadh aige nas furasta na an litreachadh Gàidhlig air eiginn.

User avatar
Johanna
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:6679
Joined:2006-09-17, 18:05
Real Name:Johanna
Gender:female
Location:Lidköping, Westrogothia
Country:SESweden (Sverige)

Re: i need a translation

Postby Johanna » 2009-09-28, 0:50

Eoghan wrote:Ehem. You shouldn't forget the fact that Scottish Gaelic was and is still spoken all over mainland Scotland and the Western Isles, so it's not that unusual with a Gaelic ancestor if you're Scottish. Regarding the tattoos I still agree though.
And Scots is not easier to pronounce. Its spelling just seems to be easier than the Gaelic one.

From what I've read the lowlands have always been more densely populated than the Highlands, and very few in the Lowlands have been speaking Gaelic the last 500 years or so.

I think Scots seems easier to pronounce, but that's maybe because I've heard it a lot more, and I may have some help from speaking Swedish natively, English at an advanced level and knowing some German, all of those closely related to Scots :hmm:
Swedish (sv) native; English (en) good; Norwegian (no) read fluently, understand well, speak badly; Danish (dk) read fluently, understand badly, can't speak; Faroese (fo) read some, understand a bit, speak a few sentences; German (de) French (fr) Spanish (es) forgetting; heritage language.

Travis B.
Posts:2019
Joined:2005-06-13, 6:35
Real Name:Travis Bemann
Gender:male
Location:Maryland
Country:USUnited States (United States)

Re: i need a translation

Postby Travis B. » 2009-09-28, 1:59

I was under the impression that much of the Lowlands of Scotland, especially the eastern parts thereof, as well as the extreme northeast of Scotland were never Gaelic-speaking but rather have been Germanic-speaking (whether Anglic-speaking or Norse-speaking) since about the time presumably Brythonic language previously spoken there had been displaced, and that the notion of a uniformly previously Gaelic-speaking Scotland is more a modern Romantic notion more than anything else. (That is, that only the far west of the Lowlands, particularly Galloway, were ever Gaelic-speaking to begin with.)
secretGeek on CodingHorror wrote:Type inference is not a gateway drug to more dynamically typed languages.

Rather "var" is a gateway drug toward "real" type inferencing, of which var is but a tiny cigarette to the greater crack mountain!

YngNghymru
Posts:1537
Joined:2009-05-21, 10:08
Location:Wrexham (Wrecsam)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: i need a translation

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-09-28, 7:25

That's about right. If I remember correctly, the gaels came from Ireland in the first place, making the native celtic language of Scotland Pictish, rather than Gaelic, which is a descendant of Old Irish.

Interestingly, the Gaelic name for the Western Isles means 'isles of the foreigners' (or something like that)... and now they're pretty much the only place it's spoken. [/trivia]
[flag]en[/flag] native| [flag]cy[/flag] mwy na chdi | [flag]fr[/flag] plus d'un petit peu| [flag]ar[/flag] ليتي استطعت

ég sef á sófanum!

Eoghan
Posts:2169
Joined:2008-06-12, 9:34
Gender:male
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: i need a translation

Postby Eoghan » 2009-09-28, 8:29

YngNghymru wrote:That's about right. If I remember correctly, the gaels came from Ireland in the first place, making the native celtic language of Scotland Pictish, rather than Gaelic, which is a descendant of Old Irish.

Interestingly, the Gaelic name for the Western Isles means 'isles of the foreigners' (or something like that)... and now they're pretty much the only place it's spoken. [/trivia]


That's true, na h-Innse Gall means the Foreigners' Isles, and it refers to the fact that these islands belonged to the Vikings for quite some time. This is also one of the reasons why Lewis Gaelic has a distinct Nordic/Scandinavian feel to it ... And whether Pictish was a Celtic language or not we cannot but guess, no written sources remain so it's really up to our fantasy I guess. What is sure though is that some of the oldest Welsh texts stem from southern Scotland, as Cumbrian Welsh was spoken in Cumbria and the Clyde Valley (Ystrad Cluid) whereas Gaelic, as you say, came from Ireland and was spoken in the Dàil Riata areas of Scotland until it gradually erased every trace of the Picts and became the main language of Scotland. Beurla Ghallda, or Scots, existed alongside Gaelic, but mainly in the Lallans area, and thus the traditional northern Scottish dialects sound less Scottish to some listeners, and more sing-songy, and soft, as they are heavily influenced by Scottish Gaelic.

Gaelic was spoken in Argyll before the Roman invasion, it was spoken in the Galloway area by the 5th century, and we mustn't forget that modern Scottish Gaelic is rather a Highland version, as a Lowland Gaelic did exist in the southern parts of Scotland. Caithness Gaelic as a different dialect is now extinct, but certainly was a living language during the 18th century and was spoken all the way up north to Wick.

YngNghymru
Posts:1537
Joined:2009-05-21, 10:08
Location:Wrexham (Wrecsam)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: i need a translation

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-09-28, 16:19

Yes indeed.

I think that most linguists agree that Pictish was a celtic language, but are unsure as to which branch it should be placed in because of the lack of written records. But the prevalence of apparently p-celtic names in Scotland (Aberdeen, for example, has the word 'Aber' which is a Welsh place-name element as well) suggests p-celtic.
[flag]en[/flag] native| [flag]cy[/flag] mwy na chdi | [flag]fr[/flag] plus d'un petit peu| [flag]ar[/flag] ليتي استطعت

ég sef á sófanum!

Clandestined
Posts:1
Joined:2009-10-02, 14:36
Real Name:Brian McDonald
Gender:male
Location:Summerstown
Country:CACanada (Canada)

Old Scottish Spelling Needed

Postby Clandestined » 2009-10-02, 15:10

I would love to know how to spell both of my kids names in Old Scottish and would appreciate any help.

My boy's name is Kaeden and my girl's name is Kiaryn. I don't think there is a Scottish spelling for Kiaryn (as I created that name as far as I know), but if anyone could give me an idea of a way to spell it in Scottish, that would be great.

As well, I would like to know how to say, "A Mother's Love Eternal" in Scottish.

Thanks so much for your help. :)

YngNghymru
Posts:1537
Joined:2009-05-21, 10:08
Location:Wrexham (Wrecsam)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Old Scottish Spelling Needed

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-10-02, 17:45

Another Celtic romanticist? :roll:

You're probably looking for the Gaelic forum, although frankly, if you can't pronounce the name yourself just by looking at it and neither can anyone else, I don't really understand the point.

Scots has no standard spelling, anyway. So you might have a problem there.
[flag]en[/flag] native| [flag]cy[/flag] mwy na chdi | [flag]fr[/flag] plus d'un petit peu| [flag]ar[/flag] ليتي استطعت

ég sef á sófanum!

Oscararon
Posts:8
Joined:2009-10-02, 19:36
Real Name:Oscar Aron Karlsson
Gender:male
Country:SESweden (Sverige)

Re: Small Scots Wordlist, with norse/germanic+English

Postby Oscararon » 2009-10-14, 18:43

Swedish translation:

Code: Select all

Scots      ->   Norse/Germanic      ->   English

keek      ->   kika (slang)      ->   look
ken      ->   känna         ->   know
dook      ->       ducka     ->   bathe/duck
plouk      ->      finne*      ->   pimple/spot
puggled      ->            ->   exhausted/knackered
crabbit      ->            ->   ill-tempered
howff      ->            ->   haunt/meeting-place/regular
glieket      ->            ->   daft/stupid/gormless
muckle      ->            ->   great/big/mighty
guff      ->      skit*      ->   crap or unpleasent smell
ben      ->            ->   in/towards (eg. to a room in the house)   
hoor      ->      hora      ->   Whore
Midden      ->            ->   Like a tip/mess, slag (human or otherwise)
naebuddy   ->            ->   nobody
radge      ->            ->   mad, furous; mental person
baffies      ->            ->   slippers
hae      ->      ha      ->   have
napper      ->      huvud      ->   head
nicht      ->       natt     ->   night
feert      ->      rädd*      ->   afraid
blaw      ->      blåsa      ->   blow
peenie      ->            ->   apron
gan      ->      gå      ->   go
een      ->      ögon     ->   eyes
dee      ->      dö      ->   die
erse      ->      arsle      ->   Arse (from "irish")
foosty      ->            ->   mouldy, musty
baith      ->      båda      ->   both
craw      ->      kråka      ->   Crow
brae      ->            ->   road on a hill
sook      ->      suga      ->   suck
doon      ->            ->   down
breeks      ->      brallor (slang for byxor)      ->   Trousers
wifie      ->            ->   woman, usually aging
heid      ->            ->   head
poke      ->            ->   bag
drookit      ->            ->   drenched, soaked
dicht      ->            ->   wipe
heifer      ->            ->    cow/big woman
jobie      ->       bajs*     ->   turd/shit
bogie      ->      snor*      ->   snot/mucus
bairn      ->     barn       ->   child
braw      ->   bra         ->   fine, nice
kirk      ->   kyrka         ->   church
seek      ->   sjuk      ->   sick


*The word in Swedish even though it has no connection to the Scots/English word.

It's a few at least, I don't have time for more and some of them might be wrong, it's a start at least. :D
Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.

User avatar
kjeks
Posts:62
Joined:2009-10-04, 10:41
Real Name:Linda M Aukan
Gender:female
Country:NONorway (Norge)

Re: Small Scots Wordlist, with norse/germanic+English

Postby kjeks » 2009-10-14, 19:24

howff -> jakt -> haunt/meeting-place/regular

I don't think this is the right translation. I would sooner associate the word howff with the Norwegian 'hoff' meaning court (as in the king's court)

How about these words:

beck - bekk - stream

flit - flytte - move house
[flag]no[/flag]Morsmål [flag]en-GB[/flag]Fluent
[flag]de[/flag]Dormant [flag]fr[/flag]Foux du fa fa

[flag]cy[/flag]Dwi'n trio dysgu Cymraeg

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts:25540
Joined:2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name:Da
Location:Chicago
Country:USUnited States (United States)

Re:

Postby linguoboy » 2009-10-14, 20:28

DelBoy wrote:I would guess that breeks (or britches in English) comes from the Irish (and Scots Gaelic?) 'bríste', meaning trousers.'

Naw, when you see slender st within an Irish morpheme, it's usually a sign of a borrowed word with a [ʤ] or [ʧ] that got flipped, e.g. page > páiste, bagage > bagáiste, coach > cóiste, etc. So it is with briste; this is merely English breeches (from Common Germanic *bro:ki) in Gaelic guise. Lack of palatalisation is a common Scots/Northumbrian trait, cf. kirk, kist ("chest"), brig ("bridge"), etc., so breeks is exactly the outcome we would expect for Anglo-Saxon bréc in Scotland.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

YngNghymru
Posts:1537
Joined:2009-05-21, 10:08
Location:Wrexham (Wrecsam)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Small Scots Wordlist, with norse/germanic+English

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-10-14, 22:24

Yeah, I think the Gaelic word is a germanic borrowing, rather than Scots/English having borrowed it from Gaelic.
[flag]en[/flag] native| [flag]cy[/flag] mwy na chdi | [flag]fr[/flag] plus d'un petit peu| [flag]ar[/flag] ليتي استطعت

ég sef á sófanum!

User avatar
DelBoy
Posts:3814
Joined:2004-04-22, 12:55
Real Name:Darrach Ó Murchú
Gender:male
Location:i nDún Éideann, in Albain; as Áth Cliath in Éirinn (in Edinburgh, Scotland; from Dublin, Ireland)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Small Scots Wordlist, with norse/germanic+English

Postby DelBoy » 2009-10-15, 17:45

Fair enough, I was young n hadn't a clue what I was talking about :mrgreen:

(By the way, Linguoboy - páiste = child, not page (leathanach)) :wink:
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

Labharfainn níos mó faoi, dá dtuigfinn an bhrí...

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts:25540
Joined:2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name:Da
Location:Chicago
Country:USUnited States (United States)

Re: Small Scots Wordlist, with norse/germanic+English

Postby linguoboy » 2009-10-15, 18:22

DelBoy wrote:(By the way, Linguoboy - páiste = child, not page (leathanach))

Look up the noun "page", boyo, and you'll find two definitions. If your dictionary is the OED, the first one will say:
OED wrote:I. A boy or servant.
1. A boy, a youth. Obs.
2. a. A boy or youth employed as the personal attendant and messenger of a person of high rank. Now hist. (Many pages were youths of high rank who were placed as attendants as part of their education.)

At the time that Norman French page was borrowed into Irish, the meaning "boy" was still current. English page meaning "leaf (of a book, etc.)" is also borrowed from French, but at a much later date (1485 CE); ultimately, the two words are not related.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
DelBoy
Posts:3814
Joined:2004-04-22, 12:55
Real Name:Darrach Ó Murchú
Gender:male
Location:i nDún Éideann, in Albain; as Áth Cliath in Éirinn (in Edinburgh, Scotland; from Dublin, Ireland)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Small Scots Wordlist, with norse/germanic+English

Postby DelBoy » 2009-10-15, 21:00

Ah, sorry didn't think of that type of page (péitse in modern Irish, although, if I understand you right, I can see how páiste came from the same word).
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

Labharfainn níos mó faoi, dá dtuigfinn an bhrí...

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts:25540
Joined:2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name:Da
Location:Chicago
Country:USUnited States (United States)

Re: Small Scots Wordlist, with norse/germanic+English

Postby linguoboy » 2009-10-15, 21:27

DelBoy wrote:Ah, sorry didn't think of that type of page (péitse in modern Irish, although, if I understand you right, I can see how páiste came from the same word).

Péitse is a recent reborrowing; the word isn't found in Dinneen's and Lane's (1918) gives as equivalents of "page" ara, sáilghiolla (now current in the meaning "hanger-on"), and páiste.

Agus aon chomhrá breise is cóir dúinn a bhogadh thart san fhóram s'againne--chur na hAlbanaigh bhochta suas lena ndóthain anso!
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


Return to “Other Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests