Ottoman texts - عثمانلی ترکجه‌سی متینلر

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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby modus.irrealis » 2009-06-25, 16:00

renata wrote:Bu yüzüğü parmağında geçer, yoldan geçerken duvara denemeden yürü, bahçeden lambayı al bana getir.

Should this be "parmağına geçir"? I don't see a "d" and I'm not sure how to understand "geçer".

Orada istediğin kadar elmas da alabilirsin bir zora gelirsen yüzüğünü parmağından çıkar, bir peri gelir ve sana yardım eder.

About "yüzüğünü", I don't see what corresponds to the "n" -- should it be just "yüzüğü"?

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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-25, 16:55

modus.irrealis wrote:
renata wrote:Bu yüzüğü parmağında geçer, yoldan geçerken duvara denemeden yürü, bahçeden lambayı al bana getir.

Should this be "parmağına geçir"? I don't see a "d" and I'm not sure how to understand "geçer".

Orada istediğin kadar elmas da alabilirsin bir zora gelirsen yüzüğünü parmağından çıkar, bir peri gelir ve sana yardım eder.

About "yüzüğünü", I don't see what corresponds to the "n" -- should it be just "yüzüğü"?


Yes, you are right, since I upload the texts late at night, I have many stupid mistakes :cry:, I will correct it, thanks! :)

The translations are right, though. He wants him to put a ring on his finger, that later on can used to summon an peri, a kind of genie, in case of need.
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-26, 11:18

Hello again!

علاءالدین سرایہ کیدہ ن دار یولہ سورونہ رک کیردی۔

Aladdin saraya giden yola sürünerek girdi.

Aladdin went crawling through the path that went to the palace.

لامبایی آغاچلرندہ الماسلر، یاقوتلر، زمردلر بویوین بر باغـچہ دہ بولدی۔

Lambayı ağaçlarında elmaslar, yakutlar, zuhuratlar büyüyen bir bahçede buldu.

He found the lamp in a garden in which diamonds, rubies and unexpected things grew.

لامبایی قولتوغی آلتنہ صوقدی، دار یولہ دونــدی۔

Lambayı kultuğu altına soktu, dar yola döndü.

He put the lamp under his axilla, and returned through the narrow path.

سحرباز یولک کنارندہ باغیردی: ۔

Sihirbaz yolun kenarında bağırdı:

The sorcered shouted near the path:

لامبایی بکا ویر، سکا چیقمق ایچون یاردیم ایدہ یم -

- Lambayı bana ver çıkmak için yardım edeyim.

- Give me the lamp and I will help you to exit.

علاءالدین دہ: ۔

Aladdin'da:

Aladdin:

خایر، دیدی، سن بکا یاردیم ایت چیقایم، سوکرا لامبایی سکا وریریم -

- Hayır, dedi, sen bana yardım et çıkıyım, sonra lambayı sana vererim.

- No, he said, you help me, I go out and then I will give you the lamp.*

* not sure how correct is the translation for this sentece.
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-26, 11:33

بو سوز سحربازی قیزدیردی۔

Bu söz sihirbazı kızdırdı.

This words made the sorcerer upset.

یولک دنیایہ چیقان آغزینی قاپادی، آفریقایہ دوندو کیتدی۔

Yolun dünyaya çıkan ağızını kapadı, Afrika'ya döndü gitti.

He closed the gate* of the path that led to the world (that is, outside),

:shock:علاءالدین بورادہ قاپالی قالدی۔

Aladdin burada kapalı kaldı.:shock:

And Aladdin remained locked here. :shock:**

* lit. mouth
**the smiley does not appear in the original text :P .

We have finished the first part of the story! Are you enjoying it? I think we are learning a lot, and getting more acquainted with the alphabet.

Ok, so there is only one page left! :) Let's see what happens next!
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby Mert » 2009-06-26, 15:38

Renata, I could read 75% of the sentences! I am so happy! :angel:
ه ه
ل
پ

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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-26, 16:00

سرایہ دوردی، ایکی کون اورادہ آچ قالدی۔

Saraya durdu, iki gün orada aç kaldı.

He returned to the palace, and stayed there two days hungry.

قاچــاجق ھیـــچ بر یول یوقـدی۔

Kaçacak hiç bir yol yoktu.

There was no way out.

اوچونجی کونی عقلنہ سحربازک ویردیکی یوزوک کلدی۔

Üçüncü günü aklını sihirbazın verdiği yüzün geldi

The third day, he remembered the ring the sorcered gave him.

یوزوکی پارماغندن چیقاردی، پری قیزی کوروندی۔

Yüzünü parmağından çıkardı, peri kızı görüntü.

He took out the ring from his ring, and a female genie appeared.
Last edited by kalemiye on 2009-06-27, 22:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-26, 16:03

Mert wrote:Renata, I could read 75% of the sentences! I am so happy! :angel:


Good job Mert!! :good4u:

We still have one page left, so keep following this thread. Then, we will start a new text!
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-26, 16:43

علاءالدین دہ: ۔

Aladdin de:

Aladdin:

قوزوم پری ، بنی اویمہ کوتور، دیدی،

Kuzum peri, beni evime götür, dedi,

Dear genie, take me home, he said.

علاءالدیـــن کوزینی آچوب قاپانجہ یہ قادار کندینی اوندہ بولدی۔۔

Aladdin gözünü açıp kapancaya kadar kendini evinde buldu.

In a twinkle of the eyes Aladdin found himself at home.

آننہ سی فقیر بر قادیندی۔

Annesi fakir bir kadındı.

His mother was poor.

علاءالدینہ ویرہ جک نہ یمکی، نہ دہ پاراسی واردی

Aladdine verecek ne yemeği, ne de parası vardı.

She did not have either food or money to give to Aladdin.

علاءالدین لامبایی اننہ سنہ ویردی:۔

Aladdin lambayı annesine verdi:

Aladdin gave the lamp to his mother:

کیت بونی پازاردہ سات، پاراسیلہ بکا یمیک آل، دیدی۔ -

Git bunu pazarda sat, parasıyla bana yemek al, dedi

Go and sell this in the bazaar, with the money buy me food, he said

بو لامبا چوق پیـــس، دیدی۔ بونی برآز تمیزلہ مک لازم۔ -

Bu lamba çok pis, dedi. Bunu biraz temizlemek lazım.

- This lamp is very dirty, she said. It needs to be cleaned.
Last edited by kalemiye on 2009-06-27, 22:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby modus.irrealis » 2009-06-27, 18:02

I finally worked through all of them, without any major difficulties, but I have a few questions:

renata wrote:سرایہ دوردی، ایکی کون اورادہ آچ قالدی۔

Saraya döndü, iki gün orada aç kaldı.

He returned to the palace, and stayed there two days hungry.

Since this does slightly alter the translation, should that be "durdu" instead of "dündü"?

علاءالدیـــن کوزینی آچوب قاپانجہ یہ قادار کندینی اوندہ بولدی۔۔

Aladdin gözünü açığ kapancaya kadar kendini evinde buldu.

In a twinkle of the eyes Aladdin found himself at home.

That should be "açıp" right? And just so I understand the construction with "kadar" here correctly, literally it's "by the time Aladdin opened and closed his eyes, he found himself...", right?

And if it is "açıp", I notice that this is another case where a vowel is represented by a different letter than I would have expected, like here و for ı, and I think the same thing happens with için. Does this represent just something weird with the orthography or does it mean that in Ottoman Turkish there was a different pronunciation, one that didn't obey the vowel harmony rules. I've noticed the same sort of thing also with the endings, which I thought was just a convenient way to make the endings recognizable, but now I'm wondering if there was pronunciation difference there as well.

renata wrote:We still have one page left, so keep following this thread. Then, we will start a new text!

Does that mean no more Aladdin, even though the story isn't finished? I have enjoyed this story, since the language is simpler and lots of words are repeated, so it really helps in being able to read the script.

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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-27, 21:59

modus.irrealis wrote:I finally worked through all of them, without any major difficulties, but I have a few questions:

renata wrote:سرایہ دوردی، ایکی کون اورادہ آچ قالدی۔

Saraya döndü, iki gün orada aç kaldı.

He returned to the palace, and stayed there two days hungry.

Since this does slightly alter the translation, should that be "durdu" instead of "dündü"?


Yes, you are right. I transcribed it wrong, I am going to correct it right now :) .

علاءالدیـــن کوزینی آچوب قاپانجہ یہ قادار کندینی اوندہ بولدی۔۔

Aladdin gözünü açığ kapancaya kadar kendini evinde buldu.

In a twinkle of the eyes Aladdin found himself at home.

That should be "açıp" right? And just so I understand the construction with "kadar" here correctly, literally it's "by the time Aladdin opened and closed his eyes, he found himself...", right?

And if it is "açıp", I notice that this is another case where a vowel is represented by a different letter than I would have expected, like here و for ı, and I think the same thing happens with için. Does this represent just something weird with the orthography or does it mean that in Ottoman Turkish there was a different pronunciation, one that didn't obey the vowel harmony rules. I've noticed the same sort of thing also with the endings, which I thought was just a convenient way to make the endings recognizable, but now I'm wondering if there was pronunciation difference there as well.


The Turkish suffix -ıp, ip, up, üp is written in Ottoman Turkish as وب- . Maybe in an older stage of the language the pronounciation was different (for instance için in Azeri is said in many dialects as içün or üçün); but I tend to believe that the suffixes were fixed to make them easily recognizable :). Also, the different between soft and hard vowels is not represented in Ottoman (kitap --- کتابkitab; although I think the reason behind it is not only to make suffixes recognizable (i.e: as in تورکجہ) but also to respect the original ortography of non-Turkish words .

renata wrote:We still have one page left, so keep following this thread. Then, we will start a new text!

Does that mean no more Aladdin, even though the story isn't finished? I have enjoyed this story, since the language is simpler and lots of words are repeated, so it really helps in being able to read the script.


Well, the story continues, don't worry! :) I will be posting more tomorrow.

We will know the end :wink:. It is a really nice story, and I think it has helped you much with the alphabet, I have another short story we can read after this one :).
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-29, 15:15

لامبایی بزلہ اوغــوشدورور اوغــوشدورماز ینہ بر پری کوروندی۔

Lambayı bezle ovuşturur ovuşturmaz yine bir peri görüntü

As soon as he rubbed the lamp, again a new genie appeared.

انسان اوغلی، بندن نہ ایستہ یورسک؟ دیدی۔-

İnsan oğlu, benden be istiyorsun? dedi

Human, what do you want from me? the genie said.

علاءالدین؛-

Aladdin:

آمان پری، قارنم چوق آچ، بکا یمیک کتیر، دیدی۔

Aman peri, karnım çok aç :( , bana yemek getir, dedi

Oh genie, I am very hungry :(, bring me food, he said.

کوزینی آچوب قاپاینجہ قادار اوکندہ مکمل بر صوفرا بولدی۔

Gözünu açıp kapayınca kadar önünde* mükemmel bir sofra buldu.

In a twinkle of eyes he found in front of him* a wonderful dining table.

* corrected.
Last edited by kalemiye on 2009-06-30, 8:49, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby modus.irrealis » 2009-06-30, 2:41

renata wrote:لامبایی بزلہ اوغــوشدورور اوغــوشدورماز ینہ بر پری کوروندی۔

We can also translate the "ovuşturur ovuşturmaz" as "as soon as he rubbed", right? I learned that this construction emphasized that it happened at that very moment.

About کندہ, I thought it might some weird spelling for "kendi"... Anyway, obviously I can't say, but I agree that "ken-de" makes more sense than "kend-e". What would "he found to/for the town" mean?

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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-30, 7:59

modus.irrealis wrote:
renata wrote:لامبایی بزلہ اوغــوشدورور اوغــوشدورماز ینہ بر پری کوروندی۔

We can also translate the "ovuşturur ovuşturmaz" as "as soon as he rubbed", right? I learned that this construction emphasized that it happened at that very moment.


Yes, I think so, I didn't really know how to translate that to English.

About کندہ, I thought it might some weird spelling for "kendi"... Anyway, obviously I can't say, but I agree that "ken-de" makes more sense than "kend-e". What would "he found to/for the town" mean?


I checked the dictionary and didn't give me any spelling like that, that is why I decided to transcribe it as Ken.

Nevertheless, there are some inconsistencies in the text. I noticed that sometimes sonra was written as سوکرا and not as صوکرا. I checked my dictionaries and the first spelling doesn't appear, so I guess it is a mistake. Let's see.

:!: CORRECTION: I asked my friend, and because in the original text او and کندہ seem to be written separately I thought they were two different words, but actually it is only only one: اوکندہ, önünde.
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-30, 10:33

علاءالدین قارننی دویوردقدن صوکرا کزمکہ چیقدی۔

Aladdin karnını doyurduktan sonra gemeye çıktı.

After fulling his stomatch Aladdin went out for a walk.

بو دقیقہ دہ پادشاھک قیزی، سراینک اوکندہ آتہ بینیوردی۔

Bu dakikada padişahın kızı, sarayının önünde ate biniyordu.

In that moment the daughter of the sultan rode a horse in front of the palace.

علاءالدین قیزی کورور کورمز عاشق اولدی۔ اوہ دوندی، لامتایی اوغــوشدیردی، پری کلدی؛

Aladdin kızı görür görmez âşık oldu. Eve döndü, lambayı ovuşturdu, peri geldi:

Aladdin, as soon as he saw the girl, fell in love with her. He came back home, rubbed the lamp, and the genie came:

قوزوم پری، بنی زنکین یاپ، بکا اک کوزل سراینی قور۔ دیدی۔

Kuzum peri, beni zengin yap, bana en güzel sarayını kur, dedi.

Dear genie, make me rich, built for me the most beautiful palace, he said.

علاءالدین کوزینی آچـوب قاپاینجہ یہ قادار کـنـدینی آلتون سـرایدہ بولدی۔

Aladdin gözünü açıp kapayıncaya kadar kendini altın sarayinda buldu.

In a twinkle of eyes, Aladdin found himself in a golden palace.
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby modus.irrealis » 2009-06-30, 12:02

renata wrote::!: CORRECTION: I asked my friend, and because in the original text او and کندہ seem to be written separately I thought they were two different words, but actually it is only only one: اوکندہ, önünde.

That makes more sense. To be honest, I sometimes have trouble telling where one word ends and other begins, and your transcription has saved me a couple times in that respect.

No questions from me for the last part.

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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-06-30, 21:20

modus.irrealis wrote:
renata wrote::!: CORRECTION: I asked my friend, and because in the original text او and کندہ seem to be written separately I thought they were two different words, but actually it is only only one: اوکندہ, önünde.

That makes more sense. To be honest, I sometimes have trouble telling where one word ends and other begins, and your transcription has saved me a couple times in that respect.

No questions from me for the last part.


Yes, sometimes it is not clear at all :( . Tomorrow I will be posting more! :(
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-07-03, 19:41

آلتی یوز دانہ خدمتجی اوکندہ بکلہ یوردی۔

Altı yüz tane hizmetçi önünde bekliyordu.

Six hundred servants waited in front of him.

بو دنیایی صابین آلابیلہ جک قادار پاراسی واردی۔

Bu dünyayı satın alabilecek kadar parası vardı.

He had so much money that he could buy the world.

سرایک ایچی بوتون الماس ویا قوتلہ ایشلہ نمشدی۔

Sarayin içi bütün elmas veya kütle işlenmişti.

Inside the palace was embroided with rocks and

علاءالدین قرق دانہ آلتون صاندق یاپدیردی، ایچینی انجی و الماسلہ دولدوردی۔

Aladdin kırk tane altın sandık yaptırdı, içini ince ve elmaslar dordurdu.

Aladdin had done forty golden chests and filled them with pearls and rocks.

پادشاھہ کوندردی۔

Padişaha gönderdi.

He sent it to the sultan.

پادشاہ او قادار ممنون اولدی کہ قیزینی علاءالدینہ ویردی۔

Padişah o kadar memnun oldu ki kızını Aladdin"e verdi.

The sultan was so pleased that he gave his daughter to Aladdin.

اوزون مدت علاءالدینلہ قاریسی بو سرایدہ مسعود بختیار یاشادیلر۔

Uzun müddet Aladdinle karısı bu sarayda mesut bahtiyar yaşadılar.

During a long time Aladdin and his wife lived happily in this palace.

سحرباز سحرلی لامبایی آلمق ایچون تکرار بو مملکتہ کلمشدی۔

Sihirbaz sihirli lambayı almak için tekrar bu memlekete gelmişti.

The sorcerer came again to this region to take the lamp.
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-07-04, 13:28

علاءالدینی آلتین سرایدہ کورونجہ، علاءالدینک لامبایی آلوب دیشاری چیقدیغی آکلادی۔

Aladdinin altın sarayıda görünce, Aladdinin lambayı alıp dışarı çıktığı anladı.

Seeing the golden palace of Aladdin, he understood that the lamp had to be taken outside.

لامبایی الہ کچیرمک ایـچون بر اویون یاپدی۔

Lambayı ile geçirmek için bir oyun yaptı.

He played a trick to get out with the lamp.

چارشیدن یکی لامبالر آلدی ، سوقاقلردن کـچہ رک باغرییوردی۔

Çarşıda yeni lambalar aldı, sokaklardan geçerek bağrıyordu.

He bought two new lamps in the market, and he shoted while passing the streets.

یکی لامبالر ویریر، اسکی لامبالر آلیرم۔-

Yeni lambalar verir, eski lambalar alırım.

I give new lamps and take the old.

بویلہ جہ علاءالدینک سراینہ کلدی۔

Böylece Aladdinin sarayına geldi:

Doing this, he arrived to Aladdin's palace.
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Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby modus.irrealis » 2009-07-07, 4:03

I made it through your last two posts and don't have any questions, but I am looking forward to the next instalment.

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kalemiye
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Joined: 2007-01-12, 19:24
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Country: ES Spain (España)

Re: Ottoman texts - عثمالی ترکجہ سی متینلر

Postby kalemiye » 2009-07-29, 19:33

I am really sorry for not positıng anything, but I have been busy lately.

I will try to finish this text today or tomorrow if possible, if not during the weekend. Next week I will be on a trip and I won't be able to post anything here until I come back sometime in August. I am very sorry for the delay :(, I really enjoy this thread.

I don't have much time today to post everything :cry: . I will post the Ottoman text only, and I will post the transcription and translation tomorrow. If in the meantime sb decides to post his/her transcription and translation here, that would be cool. I think we have gone through all the words of today's text, so it shouldn't be difficult! :wink:

علاءالدین آو ايچون دیشاری چیقمشدی۔

قاریسی سحربازہ لامبایی ویردوب یرینہ یکی بر لامبا آلدی، سحرباز لامبایی النہ آلیر آلماز اوغوشدوردی، پری کوروندی۔ سحرباز:

بو سرایی، ایچوندہ کی خدمتجیلرلہ، خانمیلہ برابر آفریقایہ کوتور، دیری۔

سحرباز کوزینی آچوب قاپاینجہ قادار کندینی آفریقادہ سرایدہ بولدی۔

علاءالدین آودن دوندی، سرایک یریکدہ یللر اسیوردی۔

عقلنہ پارماغندہ کی یوزوک کلدی۔

پری کوروندی۔

بنم سرایمی، قارینمی ینہ بکا کتیر، دیدی

بونی بن یاپامام۔ بونی آنجق لامبانک پریسی کتیرہ بیلیر، دیدی

اویلہہ ایسہ، بنی قاریمک یاننہ کوتور۔

کوزینی آچوب قاپاینجہ قادار کندینی سرایدہ بولدی۔

قاریسی اونی کورونجہ شاشیردی۔
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