here is what Te Rangi Hiroa had to say about O'ahu in
"RECORDING OF POLYNESIAN TEXTS AND PROPER NAMES"
Complications have occurred in some names through the particle o (Maori, ko) having been incorrectly incorporated with the name. An example occurs in the Cook spelling of Otaheetee ('o Tahiti). The Hawaiian spelling of the island of Oahu represents the grammatical construction of'o Ahu. The Tahiti spelling has been corrected, but Oahu remains and cannot be changed.
TheManu wrote:After reading the "Niihau" thread, it seems that the meaning of the island names(most of them) and how they were named are lost.
here is what Te Rangi Hiroa had to say about O'ahu in
"RECORDING OF POLYNESIAN TEXTS AND PROPER NAMES"
Complications have occurred in some names through the particle o (Maori, ko) having been incorrectly incorporated with the name. An example occurs in the Cook spelling of Otaheetee ('o Tahiti). The Hawaiian spelling of the island of Oahu represents the grammatical construction of'o Ahu. The Tahiti spelling has been corrected, but Oahu remains and cannot be changed.
Ahu the original name?
interested in any opinions on that.
2043. Puni Kauai, puni Oahu
2044. I Kahulu'u ka ewe i Waikane ka piko
2045. Ha'ule i Hakipu'u i Kualoa
2046. O Maui-a-ka-malo
2047. O ka ho'okala kupua o ka moku
2048. He moku--no
Mamo wrote:TheManu wrote:After reading the "Niihau" thread, it seems that the meaning of the island names(most of them) and how they were named are lost.
here is what Te Rangi Hiroa had to say about O'ahu in
"RECORDING OF POLYNESIAN TEXTS AND PROPER NAMES"
Complications have occurred in some names through the particle o (Maori, ko) having been incorrectly incorporated with the name. An example occurs in the Cook spelling of Otaheetee ('o Tahiti). The Hawaiian spelling of the island of Oahu represents the grammatical construction of'o Ahu. The Tahiti spelling has been corrected, but Oahu remains and cannot be changed.
Ahu the original name?
interested in any opinions on that.
...example of "Otaheetee" are problems that occurred for European explorers, not for Hawaiians...
TheManu wrote:Mamo wrote:TheManu wrote:After reading the "Niihau" thread, it seems that the meaning of the island names(most of them) and how they were named are lost.
here is what Te Rangi Hiroa had to say about O'ahu in
"RECORDING OF POLYNESIAN TEXTS AND PROPER NAMES"
Complications have occurred in some names through the particle o (Maori, ko) having been incorrectly incorporated with the name. An example occurs in the Cook spelling of Otaheetee ('o Tahiti). The Hawaiian spelling of the island of Oahu represents the grammatical construction of'o Ahu. The Tahiti spelling has been corrected, but Oahu remains and cannot be changed.
Ahu the original name?
interested in any opinions on that.
...example of "Otaheetee" are problems that occurred for European explorers, not for Hawaiians...
errors of European explorers and missionaries could have easily been transplanted in the language via the introduction of a written language and standardized alphabet.
I'll check out the 19th century Hawaiian language newspapers. Either way even if it turns out to be preposition 'O technically all place names start with that preposition when they are being described. Hard to describe what I mean but as a speaker of a Polynesian language place names can't occur without a preposition.
errors of European explorers and missionaries could have easily been transplanted in the language via the introduction of a written language and standardized alphabet.
riki wrote:TheManu wrote:errors of European explorers and missionaries could have easily been transplanted in the language via the introduction of a written language and standardized alphabet.
... because I know for a fact that no Polynesian language has been that influenced by missionaries or outsiders.
TheManu wrote:I did say "could have".riki wrote:TheManu wrote:errors of European explorers and missionaries could have easily been transplanted in the language via the introduction of a written language and standardized alphabet.
... because I know for a fact that no Polynesian language has been that influenced by missionaries or outsiders.
obviously outsiders did have considerable influence on the language & culture which is why the Hawaiian language nearly died.
Mamo wrote:TheManu wrote:After reading the "Niihau" thread, it seems that the meaning of the island names(most of them) and how they were named are lost.
here is what Te Rangi Hiroa had to say about O'ahu in
"RECORDING OF POLYNESIAN TEXTS AND PROPER NAMES"
Complications have occurred in some names through the particle o (Maori, ko) having been incorrectly incorporated with the name. An example occurs in the Cook spelling of Otaheetee ('o Tahiti). The Hawaiian spelling of the island of Oahu represents the grammatical construction of'o Ahu. The Tahiti spelling has been corrected, but Oahu remains and cannot be changed.
Ahu the original name?
interested in any opinions on that.
It might be possible, but I don't think that the name O'ahu is a complication resulting from the nominative particle becoming fixed to the beginning of 'Ahu, because other sited problems like the example of "Otaheetee" are problems that occurred for European explorers, not for Hawaiians, and the 'o did not become fixed to the other Hawaiian island names. We do not find that the other island names have become Ohawai'i, Omaui, Omoloka'i, Okaua'i, Oni'ihau, Okaho'olawe, or Olāna'i. If O'ahu is used to talk about a single person from O'ahu, the noun phrase would be "ke O'ahu." Determiners cannot precede the nominative particle in Hawaiian, so it is unlikely that the "o" is the nominative particle. O'ahu can be preceded by all prepositions (iā, i, ma, me, kō, kā, o, a, no, na, e [agentive] etc.) without the "o" disappearing, while the nominative particle cannot be preceded by prepositions. O'ahu can come after the vocative "e," too, where the following noun phrase would not be preceded by the nominative particle in Hawaiian. When O'ahu is in the subject position, it is preceded by the nominative marker 'o, as 'o O'ahu. The nominative marker 'o cannot precede another nominative marker 'o in Hawaiian.
In the Kumulipo, where only initial names appear with "o," and the other proper nouns do not, we find this:2043. Puni Kauai, puni Oahu
2044. I Kahulu'u ka ewe i Waikane ka piko
2045. Ha'ule i Hakipu'u i Kualoa
2046. O Maui-a-ka-malo
2047. O ka ho'okala kupua o ka moku
2048. He moku--no
So, in this chant, where "o" does not occur in front of proper nouns unless they are initial in the phrase or in sentence structures that require it like the "X lāua 'o Y" pattern, O'ahu is still O'ahu, and not 'Ahu.
obviously outsiders did have considerable influence on the language & culture which is why the Hawaiian language nearly died.
This is what you said earlier..."It might be possible..." and then you offered good evidence countering that. No where did I disagree with. I just offered a possibility as well. Remember Mamo, you can't say definitively either way because you don't even know what O'ahu means or how the island was named.
TheManu wrote:Remember Mamo, you can't say definitively either way because you don't even know what O'ahu means or how the island was named.
Mamo wrote:TheManu wrote:Remember Mamo, you can't say definitively either way because you don't even know what O'ahu means or how the island was named.
Although I can't say that it's 100% impossible, given that this alleged sound change is not present in the other place names, and therefore does not suggest that it is a feature of the Hawaiian language, even post contact, in addition to my grammatical explanations above, it is highly unlikely that the present "O'ahu" is derived from the nominative "o" becoming fixed to 'Ahu.
TheManu wrote:what does O'ahu mean in english?
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