Finnic loans in Latvian?

[Ada H.]

Could someome please give me some examples of the Finnic (Livonian, Estonian, Finnish etc) loans in Latvian language, if there are any?

Paldies!

[Levo]

Hi!
I have just looked in a Latvian study-book and was amazed how many Finnish-Estonian words I found for the very first sight!
I don't remember clearly for the Latvian, so I write here the finnish-estonian ones:

poika - puika ?
kaappi
veel
raamatu
...

Cool

[Sol Invictus]

Levo is correct about first one, but I don't understand other words - are those in Finnic, if so could you translate them to english, so it will be easier to find Latvian variant ?

I think istaba (room) is loan from Livonian, then there is ķīris (type of large seagull) and laiva (boat, it however is loanword in finnish itself)

[Vertaler]

raamat = grāmata is a Russian loan word both in Estonian and in Latvian, I think. Well, it at least is a loan word in Estonian.

I think there are far more Baltic loans in Finnic languages than Finnic in the Baltic languages. It’ll be quite difficult to determine which one was first where.

maksāt = maksaa/maksama seems like a loan word to me, and another one is probably Somija.

[Alcadras]

maksat means "aim" in Turkish.

[Sol Invictus]

maksat means "aim" in Turkish.

It means to pay in Latvian, so it has similar meaning only if we speak about bribery (like "to pay someone in order to reach some aim")

I think there are far more Baltic loans in Finnic languages than Finnic in the Baltic languages.

I guess you're right - I've heard more about loanwords from Baltic languages in Finnic languages than vice versa

[Mantaz]

Hi!
I have just looked in a Latvian study-book and was amazed how many Finnish-Estonian words I found for the very first sight!
I don't remember clearly for the Latvian, so I write here the finnish-estonian ones:

poika - puika ?
kaappi
veel
raamatu
...

Cool

Are you sure about "veel"? There's a a word "vėl" [again; pronounced same as veel] and bunch of probably related words with root "vėl-" in Lithuanian.

For other Latvian loans, I know:
bura [sail];
vai [or; whether]

[Zorba]

I've noticed quite a few words to be similar on my visits to Latvia and Estonia, but I can only remember three offhand and I'm not sure which language they originated in

piim / piens = milk
Õlu / alus = beer
maja / mājā = house

[Alcadras]

Hi!
I have just looked in a Latvian study-book and was amazed how many Finnish-Estonian words I found for the very first sight!
I don't remember clearly for the Latvian, so I write here the finnish-estonian ones:

poika - puika ?
kaappi
veel
raamatu
...

Cool

Are you sure about "veel"? There's a a word "vėl" [again; pronounced same as veel] and bunch of probably related words with root "vėl-" in Lithuanian.

For other Latvian loans, I know:
bura [sail];
vai [or; whether]

And i think estonian also has the word "veel".

[Mantaz]

I've noticed quite a few words to be similar on my visits to Latvia and Estonia, but I can only remember three offhand and I'm not sure which language they originated in

piim / piens = milk
Õlu / alus = beer
maja / mājā = house

piim / piens / pienas (lith.) – Baltic
Õlu / alus / alus = Germanic
maja / māja = Finnic (from Livians?)

[Mantaz]

And i think estonian also has the word "veel".

Yes, I know that! The question is where have this word originated from

[Levo]

Hi!
I have just looked in a Latvian study-book and was amazed how many Finnish-Estonian words I found for the very first sight!
I don't remember clearly for the Latvian, so I write here the finnish-estonian ones:

poika - puika ?
kaappi
veel
raamatu
...

Cool

kaappi - shelf
the others has already been discussed

[Sol Invictus]

I seached with google and found that there are about 80 loanwords from Livonian in standard Latvian (there are dialects heavily impacted by Livonian, I guess that such dialects should should have more loanwords), joma, kāzas, ķilda, māja, puisis, puķe, salaka, selga, suga, tērauds, vai?, vajag, veseris were given as examples. Apparently many loanwords are connected to sea (unfortunatly no examples were given). I found some names borrowed from finnic: Aino, Aiko, Ārne, Endo, Ēro, Illo, Raimo, Raivo, Taivo, Vaino, Vello, Helmi, Olavi, Elju, Ilū, Lelū, Aiga, Aigis, Aigo, Aigins, Aigija, Aigisa, Aigita, Imants, Imanta, Imanda, Imandra Jumārs, Lelū, Vanema, Elemede, Eino, Endo, Jullo, Kadrija, Kaira, Kaija, Koidula, Maima, Maimu, Raivo, Valve, Vello. Aila, Aino, Arvo, Ilmārs, Ilma, Kalle, Kusta, Laila, Laine, Linda, Taivis, Taivo, Hilja, Silja, Helmi, Kaija, Katarīna, Aigars, Imatra, Imetra, Leila, Leilī, Lempija, Maija, Maira, Mairis, Mairita, Mairits, Mairīte, Mairims, Mairina, Raitis. However not all of these are popularly used and some may have not orginated from finnic. Along these names
Kaija, Paija, Selga were also mentioned - these orginate from everyday words that have orginated from finnic. Introduction of Livonian phrasebook gives examples of placenames Ainaži, Ādaži, Ropaži, Suntaži, Ikšķile, Matkule, Puikule, Nurmuiža, Tārgale and hydronyms Aģe, Irve, Jugla, Korģe, Salaca, Līlastes ezers, Valguma ezers, Usmas ezers borrowed from Livonian. In my oppinion Kangari (because, if you would look in map you would see that historical livonian territory is full of placenames kangari) and urga also come from Livonian and I guess that swearword Lunis might orginate from estonian.

kaappi - shelf

Then I guess you mean skapis

[Loiks]

Kaappi is in Finnish and means 'cupboard', Estonian kapp. It's very Germanic, Finnic languages have lost the initial s.

What does that Lunis mean? I can't think of any Estonian word similar to that except lunima 'to cadge' according to my dictionary; lunis 'he/she cadged'.

A book I have "Sissejuhatus läänemeresoome keeltesse" (Introduction to Balto-Finnic Languages) knows only three Finnic words in Baltic languages: LT bure ET puri FI purje 'sail'; LT laivas ET laev FI laiva 'ship'; LT kadagys ET kadakas FI kataja 'juniper'. To compare: there are more than three pages of examples of Baltic loanwords in Finnic languages in this book. It says also that there are more loanwords in some Latvian dialects but nothing more specific.

[Sol Invictus]

Kaappi is in Finnish and means 'cupboard', Estonian kapp. It's very Germanic, Finnic languages have lost the initial s.

What does that Lunis mean? I can't think of any Estonian word similar to that except lunima 'to cadge' according to my dictionary; lunis 'he/she cadged'.

A book I have "Sissejuhatus läänemeresoome keeltesse" (Introduction to Balto-Finnic Languages) knows only three Finnic words in Baltic languages: LT bure ET puri FI purje 'sail'; LT laivas ET laev FI laiva 'ship'; LT kadagys ET kadakas FI kataja 'juniper'. To compare: there are more than three pages of examples of Baltic loanwords in Finnic languages in this book. It says also that there are more loanwords in some Latvian dialects but nothing more specific.

Nothing, therfore it is so suspicious, I think it could come from estonian because I heard simmilar estonian word in Latvian-Estonian movie, it was "lunn" or something like that, it was translated as stupid (person). While live is borrowed from finnic it is loanword in Finnic too - it comes from germanic (gothic if I remmember correctly) hlaiv

[amoeba]

Aside from the lexicon, there is believed to be phonological influence on Latvian from Finnic (i.e. mandatory stress on initial syllable, unlike Lithuanian - with very few exceptions). It's supported by the idea of a Finnic (Livonian) substratum in Latvian. In some respects Latvian sounds more like Estonian than Lithuanian.

Also there are morphological influences - one case which I don't have the right words to describe, but it has to do with phrases like "iet iekšā" (to go inside), which supposdely follows a Finnic pattern, opposed to the alternative "ieiet" prefixal construction common with Lithuanian and Slavic languages. It is related to perfectivization but I'm not fluent enough in any of those languages to explain it well.

It seems the Finnic languages, being in the region for much longer, borrowed heavily from Indo-European (Germanic, Baltic, Slavic [?]), but not vice-versa.

[Loiks]

The main areas on which the Finnics have borrowed words from Baltic are: hunting and fishery, agriculture and cattle-breeding, building and domestic household, social and affinity relations, personal qualities, nature, some particles. The words are usually more similar to modern Lithuanian.

There are some typical sound mutations:

š > h LT šalna - FI halla 'frost'

ti > si LT tiltas - FI silta 'bridge'

ln > ll LT vilna - FI villa 'wool'

ie > ai (in South Estonian and Livonian), ei (in other languages)

[amoeba]

The main areas on which the Finnics have borrowed words from Baltic are: hunting and fishery, agriculture and cattle-breeding, building and domestic household, social and affinity relations, personal qualities, nature, some particles. The words are usually more similar to modern Lithuanian.

That could give support to the idea of Indo-Europeans introducing livestock and more advanced farming to the region, as well as a new social order, religious system, new technology, and especially warefare. Apparently the Pre-Indo-European folk were a much simpler and harmonious bunch

[Zorba]

Really? To me "hunting and fishery, agriculture and cattle-breeding, building and domestic household, social and affinity relations, personal qualities, nature" just sounds like a catalog of anything pre-historic peoples might have talked about, except warfare!

[Sol Invictus]

http://books.google.com/books?id=8hdjY_ ... over&hl=lv