[Scottish Gaelic] Questions about pronunciation

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[Scottish Gaelic] Questions about pronunciation

Postby alois » 2005-05-29, 1:16

I was taking a look at a table that shows the lenition process in the Scotish Gaelic language, presenting mutations such as:

C [k] before a, o, u ---- C [k_j] before e, i ---- Ch [x] word final position

This makes sense, absolutely, since they're all velar consonats, but what about:

D [d] before a, o, u ---- D [d_j] before e, i ---- Dh [G] word final position
L [l] before a, o, u ---- L [L] before e, i ----- ph [f] word final position

Could anyone explain me what fonological process could cause a d or a l to become /G/ and /f/ as their fricative couterparts respectively? I'm really wondering about it. I've also seen some other "oddities" like this one in Welsh or Irish, I think.

Thank you.

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phonectic pronunciation of seanmhair

Postby mom2gone » 2006-01-03, 6:26

I hope someone can help me with the correct phonetic pronunciation for seanmhair. I would like something special for my grandkids to call me.
And is this plural or singular, also if possible what is the possessive form?

thank you,

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2006-01-03, 18:37

From checking around, the little I could get (since I've already forgotten most of the little I used to know about Scottish Gaelic) was:

seanmhair = indefinite nominative singular
seanmhar = indefinite genitive singular
seanmhairean = indefinite nominative plural

Trying to remember some rules, I'd guess that:

sheanmhairean = indefinite genitive plural

an t-seanmhair = definite nominative singular
na seanmhar = definite genitive singular
na seanmhairean = definite nominative plural
nan seanmhairean = definite genitive plural

but this is something I'm definitely not sure of.

And then, in theory, seanmhair might be pronounced, in an IPA transcription, /ʃɛnvʲɪɾʲ/. However, any of these is yet to be checked and confirmed by a native speaker or a more advanced student.
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Postby Psi-Lord » 2006-01-03, 19:23

Daniel wrote:It very roughly sounds like "shannuh ver". :wink:

Gotta love the Svarbhakti / fuaimreag-chuideachaidh. ;)
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I need help pronouncing a Scottish Gaelic word

Postby Bails » 2006-01-10, 13:50

Hi there!

Can someone pretty please tell me how to correctly pronounce this Scottish Gaelic word
spèiread

It means a lot to me. I would appreciate any help. Thankyou so much!
Love bails xo

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Some questions

Postby Aszev » 2006-05-07, 17:44

I picked up a book about Gaelic at the library, but there are some things that confuse me.

'cladhach' is described as [kɫɤ.əx][k57.@x]. But as <a> is described as [a], I wonder why it is [ɤ][7] here. <aidh> is described as [ɤi][7i] though, is that where it comes from?

Also, the word 'airgead' is described as [ɛrʲɛgʲəd][Er'Eg'@d], why is <a> pronounced as [ɛ][E] here?

On wikipedia's page about Gaelic, it says Gàidhlig is pronounced [kɑːlʲəkʲ][kA:l'@k']. In my book [ɑ][A] isn't there at all, and I also wonder wouldn't <idh> be a diphthong with a long first vowel?

Final question, how important is it to separate [n] and [nˠ][n_G], [r] and [ɹ][r\]? Will you be understood if you don't?

I've just read the pronounciation part and hardly begun reading chapter 1, but these were the things that I felt I didn't really get.

~Àiseabh (or however ['aːʃɛv]["a:SEv] would be written) 8)
Last edited by Aszev on 2006-05-07, 20:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Aszev » 2006-05-07, 20:26

I added X-Sampa. It's funny because I'm more used to X-Sampa but I didn't use it because I thought you would prefer IPA :D

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Spèiread

Postby Freebooter » 2006-06-15, 3:53

Feasgur Math,
I am no expert, only a student. But as I see no one has answered you I will try. I believe it is pronounced like "Speh-rat".
I hope I was of some help.
Leis gach deagh dhùrachd,
David Edelen
Millbrook, Alabama

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Consonant clusters

Postby Sectori » 2007-06-11, 19:50

Can one consonant in a cluster be slender, and the other broad, e.g. -endu-?
agus tha mo chluasan eòlach air a’ mhac-talla fhathast / às dèidh dhomh dùsgadh
(mona nicleòid wagner, “fo shneachd”)

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Postby wilsonsamm » 2007-06-19, 20:07

That's impossible.

Apart from in compound nouns and certain loanwords like baidhsagal.

And unless a native comes along and says otherwise.

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Postby Sectori » 2007-06-20, 22:33

That's what I thought, but I figured I should check.
agus tha mo chluasan eòlach air a’ mhac-talla fhathast / às dèidh dhomh dùsgadh
(mona nicleòid wagner, “fo shneachd”)

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Postby nighean-neonach » 2007-06-21, 11:03

baidhsagal is an ugly word, you should rather say rothair :)

And to answer the original question, a consonant cluster is either broad or slender, so this is signalled by the vowels written before and after the consonant cluster. e and i signal a slender consonant (cluster) and a, o, u signal a broad one.
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Pronunciation of Cineadh

Postby Kenna » 2007-10-12, 10:08

Hi, my name is Kenneth and even though I don't find it to be particularly beautiful, the gaelic name from which it originates is most definately beautiful.

Kenneth comes from gaelic Cineadh, which means "born from fire", and I'm wondering how would I pronounce it? Is it /ki-neid/, like in Sinead? With the stress on /neid/?

Also, is it scottish gaelic, irish gaelic, or something else? I'm not really sure...

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Postby DelBoy » 2007-10-12, 11:25

I don't think it's Irish - the Irish version of Kenneth is Cionna (KYUN-nuh)
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

Labharfainn níos mó faoi, dá dtuigfinn an bhrí...

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Postby Kenna » 2007-10-12, 11:33

DelBoy wrote:I don't think it's Irish - the Irish version of Kenneth is Cionna (KYUN-nuh)


At least I have that sorted out ^__^

EDIT: Btw, english speakers would probably spell it /kih-neyd/ instead of /ki-neid/.

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Postby nighean-neonach » 2007-10-12, 13:52

People whose English name is Kenneth are usually Coinneach in Scottish Gaelic. That's pronounced sort of like "conyach" (too lazy for real IPA at the moment).
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Postby Kenna » 2007-10-12, 13:57

hmm...perhaps it's welsh then? I really have no idea, but from several sites than I've read the origin is listed as Cineadh...which I actually like ^_^

Not that I'm about to change name or anything ^~^ Just curious.

The other one is american (native american?) and means handsome, which I guess is ok, but not as beautiful as Cineadh, and gaelic/welsh is closer to my heart than whatever american/native american language they might refer to.

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Postby Quevenois » 2007-10-12, 22:44

I'm not 100% sure of the spelling of "Kenneth" in Irish. I've seen Cionaoith, Cionaodh, Cionnaith...
Etymologically, i think it should be Cionaodh (since it was Cináed in Middle Irish).

In Scottish Gaelic, Kenneth is Coinneach.

Pronunciation:

Cionaoith, Cionaodh [ˈcɔnˠi]

Coinneach [ˈkʰɔɲɔχ] . Daniel, why have you put a long ɔ there? Shouldn't it be short?

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Postby nighean-neonach » 2007-10-13, 7:49

It's quite a clear "a" in the second syllable anyway.
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Postby Quevenois » 2007-10-13, 8:41

Depends on the dialect. I think they say [ɔX] in northern Lewis. Don't they?


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