Help needed

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lu:ka

Help needed

Postby lu:ka » 2006-05-16, 22:15

Hi to everyone,
I'm going to have a Romance Philology exam very soon... I must (...I only like to) know the correct pronunciation of these words:

decacdència
renaixença
països catalans
llengua català
paìs valencià
Franja de Ponent
Les Illes
normalitzaciò
fer
folla
fugir
blau
formatge
res
menjar

muchas gracias a todos

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Guillem
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Postby Guillem » 2006-05-16, 23:55

I'll give you the standard Central Catalan pronunciation. I'm impressed you deal with some of these concepts btw Is the exam about Catalan language history? Just ask if you want me to offer some insight into any of these.


decadència [dəkəˈðɛnsjə]
renaixença [rənəjˈʃɛnsə]
països catalans [pəˈizus kətəˈɫans]
llengua catalana [ˈʎeŋgwə kətəˈɫanə]
paìs valencià [pəˈiz βəɫənˈsja]
Franja de Ponent [ˈfɾaɲʒə ðəpuˈnen]
Les Illes [ɫəˈziʎəs]
normalització [nuɾməɫidzəˈsjo]
fer [fe]
folla [ˈfoʎə]
fugir [fuˈʒi]
blau [blaw]
formatge [fuɾˈmadʒɛ]
res [rɛs]
menjar [məɲˈʒa]
Last edited by Guillem on 2006-05-17, 12:18, edited 2 times in total.

lu:ka

Postby lu:ka » 2006-05-17, 7:17

Many thanks Guillem ;)

Yes, the exam deals with the evolution of the main romance languages from latin... and llengua catalana is, of course, among them so I must know the main events of its history and some basic differences between Spanish and Catalan... that's all, but being a "perfection-seeker" I want be sure to correctly pronounce the catalan words I will cite during the exam.

thanks again my dear friend
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Guillem
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Postby Guillem » 2006-05-17, 12:40

You're welcome :)
De res :)

I find history and evolution of languages to be an extremely interesting topic. I have been doing some research on ancient Catalan and Spanish, and their phonologies lately, just out of curiosity. And as I was telling Daniel yesterday, I'd like to study some Old English in a while :) Hehe

Here's some links (for you and anyone interested):
http://www.bl.uk/collections/westeuropean/catalan.html
http://www.llull.cat/llull/estatic/eng/ ... atala.shtm
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Catalan/Catalan.html
http://web.gc.cuny.edu/BrookCenter/Catalan_Hist.htm
http://www6.gencat.net/llengcat/noves/h ... j_sole.pdf

:P

lu:ka

Postby lu:ka » 2006-05-17, 13:29

Thanks for the links, they'll be useful, can you please upload some recordings, i'd like to hear how are exactly pronounced the /ɫ/ sound and the groups /ɲʒ/ and /ɲgw/ (which for me are hard to produce).


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(as a sign of friendship and gratitude)

thanks again

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Guillem
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Postby Guillem » 2006-05-17, 19:39

No worries Lu:ka dear :P I'll do that recording soon (I don't have any microphone here at the moment )

If you don't mind, I'll comment on this in "text format" for now :)
lu:ka wrote:/ɫ/

This is called "dark l" in English. The Catalan l is most commonly represented as a plain /l/ but the /ɫ/ transcription is becoming more and more popular since it's what our "l" sounds exactly like on most if not all positions, so it's much more accurate. Catalan native speakers are mocked on Spanish TV because of their perceived inability to pronounce the "normal" /l/ ;)

lu:ka wrote:/ɲʒ/

/n/ becomes /ɲ/ before /ʒ/, /ʎ/, /ʃ/ or another /ɲ/. You can find this initial sound in your own language written as "gn". It's written as "ny" in Catalan when found in its own, just like in Hungarian :P

lu:ka wrote:/ɲgw/

Hmm maybe it's because of the encoding, but I implied this combination to be actually /ŋgw/ :) (since /n/ becomes /ŋ/ when it's found before /k/ or /g/).
Pronouncing this one shouldn't pose any problem for you, I believe... it's like your lingua


And thanks for the flowers 8)

lu:ka

Postby lu:ka » 2006-05-18, 7:38

Thanks for the explanations...

Guillem wrote: The Catalan l is most commonly represented as a plain /l/ but the /ɫ/ transcription [...] it's what our "l" sounds exactly like on most if not all positions


Does it mean that /ɫ/ is just an allophone of /l/?


Guillem wrote:/n/ becomes /ɲ/ before /ʒ/, /ʎ/, /ʃ/ or another /ɲ/. You can find this initial sound in your own language written as "gn".


I know the single sounds, but they just sound "unnatural" to me when I try to pronounce them together, that's why I asked for your audio-help; maybe it's only because in italian the /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ sounds are always long (/ɲ:/ and /ʎ:/) so I tend to strengthen the first sound.

Guillem wrote: Pronouncing this one shouldn't pose any problem for you, I believe... it's like your lingua


Yes, it's exactly the same, I guessed it should have been this way, but reading /ɲ/ instead of /ŋ/ I thought it was better to ask you for confirmation...

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Guillem
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Postby Guillem » 2006-05-18, 9:20

lu:ka wrote:Thanks for the explanations...

Guillem wrote: The Catalan l is most commonly represented as a plain /l/ but the /ɫ/ transcription [...] it's what our "l" sounds exactly like on most if not all positions


Does it mean that /ɫ/ is just an allophone of /l/?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velarized_ ... pproximant

Hmmmm I must admit I'm a bit confused :oops: I was trying to imply there's only one sound, and not both, but that this sound, written as "l" has traditionally been transcripted as /l/ (SAMPA: /l/) but it sounds more like /ɫ/ (SAMPA: /5/), and that's why I (and more people nowadays) choose to use this notation.
Additionally, the digraph l·l would come to represent a geminated version of this sound.

lu:ka wrote:
Guillem wrote:/n/ becomes /ɲ/ before /ʒ/, /ʎ/, /ʃ/ or another /ɲ/. You can find this initial sound in your own language written as "gn".


I know the single sounds, but they just sound "unnatural" to me when I try to pronounce them together, that's why I asked for your audio-help; maybe it's only because in italian the /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ sounds are always long (/ɲ:/ and /ʎ:/) so I tend to strengthen the first sound.


Oh ok... I promise I'll send you the sound as soon as I get a mic (very very soon lol) sorry about the delay :oops:
When is your exam anyway?

lu:ka

Postby lu:ka » 2006-05-18, 9:59

It's on the 6<sup>th</sup> of june ... you can take it easy!!!

btw thanks for the wikipedia link ;)


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