Moderator:JackFrost
MikeL wrote:What is your usage with these two verbs?
In UK, Aust, NZ (at least in theory!) we have 3 distinct verbs:
(1) to lie (tell a falsehood); past tense and past participle: lied
(2) to lie (recline), intransitive; past tense lay, past participle lain
(3) to lay (set, put down), transitive, occasionally intransitive, e.g. of birds; past tense and past participle laid
MikeL wrote:Leaving aside the first one, which I think is fairly universal in all dialects...
MikeL wrote:...the interesting question is whether AE has a uniform usage in regard to lie/lay.
Would it be true to say that in most American dialects lay is used instead of lie?
E.g.: He was laying on the ground.
It seems to me that the forms that occur most often are the present continuous and past continuous tenses (is laying/was laying). What about the simple past? Lay? Laid/layed?
MikeL wrote:Thanks, svenska. What you say tends to confirm my suspicions: that at least in AE, "lie" and "lay" are converging, or more accurately, that "lay" is becoming generalized for both. I think you are in a transition phase, with "lain" already obsolete, "lay" as the past tense of "lie" replaced by "laid", and hesitation between "lie" and "lay" for present tense. I confidently predict the disappearance of "lie" within another 2 generations!
It will be interesting to see how long the distinction survives in non-American dialects...
SpaceFlight wrote:I had read somewhere that the past tense of ''lie'' as ''lay'', was how the present tense words ''lay'' and ''lie'' (definition 2) started getting confused.
svenska84 wrote:This is similar to something that happened in Spanish. In Spanish the words "estoy" "soy" and "doy" (1st person singular indicative of 'to be' 'to be [permanent]' and 'give') were once "estó" "so" and "do" but since the words were often followed by "yo" (1st person singular pronoun) and the [o] was stressed, the [o] acquired an assimilatory [j] accommodating the following [j] of [jo] which then became reanalyzed as essential to the words even in the absence of "yo." So what was once:
MikeL wrote:What is your usage with these two verbs?
In UK, Aust, NZ (at least in theory!) we have 3 distinct verbs:
(1) to lie (tell a falsehood); past tense and past participle: lied
(2) to lie (recline), intransitive; past tense lay, past participle lain
(3) to lay (set, put down), transitive, occasionally intransitive, e.g. of birds; past tense and past participle laid
Alcadras wrote:i sometimes lie
i lay down on my bed.
Alcadras wrote:i laid my book
MikeL wrote:(1) to lie (tell a falsehood); past tense and past participle: lied
(2) to lie (recline), intransitive; past tense lay, past participle lain
(3) to lay (set, put down), transitive, occasionally intransitive, e.g. of birds; past tense and past participle laid
svenska84 wrote:Alcadras wrote:i sometimes lie
i lay down on my bed.
Just a little correction above "Lay down my bed" implies you picked it up and are now putting it back on the floor.Alcadras wrote:i laid my book
That means you had sex with it Better say something like "I laid my book down" or "I laid down my book" unless you're really referring to having extracurricular fun with your book
jonathan wrote:In other words, "lay down" sounds like something you might say to your spouse to coax them to bed, and "lie down" sounds like something you might say to force your hyperactive 9 year-old to SETTLE DOWN AND SHUT UP BECAUSE IT'S PAST YOUR BEDTIME AND YOU HAVE SCHOOL TOMORROW.
If you know what I mean.
ZombiekE wrote:jonathan wrote:In other words, "lay down" sounds like something you might say to your spouse to coax them to bed, and "lie down" sounds like something you might say to force your hyperactive 9 year-old to SETTLE DOWN AND SHUT UP BECAUSE IT'S PAST YOUR BEDTIME AND YOU HAVE SCHOOL TOMORROW.
If you know what I mean.
Do you have several wives? xD
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests