księżycowy wrote:"Felt"?
Ná bí dána, a Phóil!
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księżycowy wrote:"Felt"?
kevin wrote:księżycowy wrote:"Felt"?
Ná bí dána, a Phóil!
Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:I hate counting. Numbers are stupid and boring and I hate them.
NB: I understand numbers are important, thank you numbers for all you have done!
Linguaphile wrote:Yay, I can make it to 90!
Linguaphile wrote:Mandarin (1-4): yi, er, san, si... [....] nope
Japanese (1-4): ichi, ni, san, shi... [.....] nope ichi, ni, san, yon... [.....] nope
Of course, the key is to be strategic. I can't count past 10 in Russian, for example, so it would have been a waste to start with anything else. And I can't count all that well in French anymore either but those 80's have stuck with me 'cause they're so... French.
dEhiN wrote:Lol, I remember when I first learned that French uses both numéro and chiffre for the word numbers and you pick which one to use depending on context, I was like, "well, that's dumb!" Now, I've gotten a little more used to it, but I still am never fully sure whenever I use one versus the other. Fortunately, I know most native speakers will understand me.
Dormouse559 wrote:dEhiN wrote:Lol, I remember when I first learned that French uses both numéro and chiffre for the word numbers and you pick which one to use depending on context, I was like, "well, that's dumb!" Now, I've gotten a little more used to it, but I still am never fully sure whenever I use one versus the other. Fortunately, I know most native speakers will understand me.
It does take a while to pick the meanings apart, but there is method to the madness. Numéro is mainly for numbers as identifiers, so that's why you say numéro de téléphone. Chiffre refers to numbers as symbols, similar to "numeral" or "figure". And it's important not to forget nombre, which is used for quantities and grammatical number, as well as for numbers as abstract mathematical entities (e.g. nombre rationnel "rational number").
dEhiN wrote:Can't numbers as identifiers also be used in quantity situations?
Oh, but I guess when the noun number is used, if it's in the context of quantity, then nombre is used?
What about a code? For example, one of the programs we use at work to remote into someone's computer involves a six-digit id assigned to each computer. In English, I would usually just say, "what's your computer's id". In French, I think I say, "quel est le numéro de votre ordinateur". Would that be correct or should I say chiffre or even a more direct translation from English, "quel est l'identification de votre ordinateur"?
By the way, thanks for the explanation. While, over the years, I've gotten a sense of then to use numéro versus chiffre, learning the specific method to the madness helps!
Speaking of French, there's one French Canadian user (i.e., employee of a client) who has used sa for ça several times and has also once used ce for se in the context of a reflexive verb. It was specifically se connecter (so the infinitive form), and he wrote ce connecter. I think he also has written a few times cEst for c'est, which is weird to me as well, because the first time I saw him write that, I thought perhaps the capital E was being used in place of the accented é as a shortcut, but there's no accent in c'est. Oh, unless, he's using the capital in place of searching for the apostrophe. I'm not sure which keyboard layout he uses, but if it's us-international, like I use, then because apostrophe + e gives é, you have to specifically type apostrophe, space and then e to get 'e. And I think for the french canadian standard layout, there's a key specifically for é but it's probably harder to get just an apostrophe. Although, I've seen him type l'ordi before for l'ordinateur, so I don't know if that would be the real reason.
Also, can both libre and disponible be used in the context of free time or availability? I initially used libre but then saw the French users respond with dispo, so I switched to disponible. But then I think I saw some French text somewhere that used libre in the same context, so now I'm not sure. I know libre is used for free in the sense of freedom of speech, free software, etc. But can it also be used for one's availability?
dEhiN wrote:You should see some of the things he says in our Discord chat! (I used GT for what you said, and it gave me, "Don't be naught, Paul!" I hope that's a good translation, if not, my reply may not apply! )
Also, apparently Paul has forgotten how to count in Irish.
I suppose if someone else who doesn't consider English to be a native language were doing this, the rule would probably be to not use their native language(s). In my case, I could only really do 1-40
Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:I hate counting. Numbers are stupid and boring and I hate them.
kevin wrote:Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:I hate counting. Numbers are stupid and boring and I hate them.
That numbers are generally too boring must be a common Irish sentiment. Or at least it would explain the numbers in Irish.
Nothing beats five boat teen big and three twenties.
kevin wrote:I'm almost tempted to ask for the link, but I already spend too much time on Discord...
kevin wrote:Very disappointing. But then, he always forgets to participate in the study groups he started himself, so maybe we can't set the expectations too high?
kevin wrote:Czech: jedenáct, dvanáct, třináct, čtvrnáct, patnáct, šestnáct, sedmnáct, osmnáct, devatenáct, dvacet
kevin wrote:Irish: fiche a haon, fiche a dó, fiche a trí, fiche a ceathair, fiche a cúig, fiche a sé, fiche a seacht, fiche a hocht, fiche a naoi, tríocha
kevin wrote:Nothing beats five boat teen big and three twenties.
kevin wrote:And yes, I know this forum well enough that I am fully prepared to be proved wrong.)
Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:There seem to be very few languages that are happy to just leave a nice, simple counting system unmarred by some strange complexity. Japanese, for example, has a very elegant system - one, two, three etc.. ten, ten-one, ten-two etc..., two-ten, two-ten-one, two-ten-two etc... But then they had to go and have dozens of different counters for different classes of noun, it makes duine, beirt, triúir look completely sane.
Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:I'll be honest, when I see a long number in the middle of a text, even when reading in English, I usually don't bother "saying" it in my head, I just think "bla bla bla".
dEhiN wrote:I wonder how English got four, since it looks like Irish (and presumably, by extension, the Celtic branch in general) uses a form more similar to that found in the Romance languages where the number starts with /k/ and includes some form of /t/ or /θ/. Though, I guess English does have the word fourth.
dEhiN wrote:kevin wrote:I'm almost tempted to ask for the link, but I already spend too much time on Discord...
I can give it to you if you'd like. Or I'll pm you my Discord name and you can add me as a friend, then I can share it with you. It's just Meera, Hidson, Vijay, Paul, and me. It was called "los cuatro amigos" before Hidson joined, and now it's "năm người bạn", which apparently means the five friends in Vietnamese. If you joined, we'd have to pick another language though (and no, Paul, we're not doing another SEA language...I could be persuaded to consider a micro/mela/polynesian language that's part of the greater Austronesian family).
dEhiN wrote:kevin wrote:Irish: fiche a haon, fiche a dó, fiche a trí, fiche a ceathair, fiche a cúig, fiche a sé, fiche a seacht, fiche a hocht, fiche a naoi, tríocha
What does a mean in Irish - and?
dEhiN wrote:WIthout looking anything up, I guess Czech is similar to English where a form of or the word for ten is appended to the end of the number? Compare -teen vs -náct.
What does a mean in Irish - and?
I wonder how English got four, since it looks like Irish (and presumably, by extension, the Celtic branch in general) uses a form more similar to that found in the Romance languages where the number starts with /k/ and includes some form of /t/ or /θ/. Though, I guess English does have the word fourth.
kevin wrote:Nothing beats five boat teen big and three twenties.
Ok, you'll definitely have to explain this to me, the non-Irish speaker in this convo.
Interesting, for me, it feels more natural to say "to be proven wrong". I wonder if that's a (North) American vs British English thing.
kevin wrote:I can't add much to the explanation that you were already given. Just a particle before standalone numbers. You don't use it for counting objects, so you get "a cúig" for the number five, but "cúig bhád" (five boats) without "a".
księżycowy wrote:Good, my memory isn't as faulty as I feared.
kevin wrote:What does a mean in Irish - and?
I can't add much to the explanation that you were already given. Just a particle before standalone numbers. You don't use it for counting objects, so you get "a cúig" for the number five, but "cúig bhád" (five boats) without "a".
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