I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

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Synalepha

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Synalepha » 2020-02-07, 15:57

Shark of Capitalism wrote:
Synalepha wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists


Why?

Maybe because they are somehow related to languages as well as linguists!
Do you know, how?


No, I don't know how.

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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 16:24

Synalepha wrote:No, I don't know how.

Does anybody know?
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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 17:10

Also I should say that arguments for latin are really quite weird: it is more prestigious, it is more computer... But in any case it is people's sovereign decision. And all Turkic latin alphabets I know are definitely better than cyrillic ones! Other point is that those linguists who make them should be asked the question too...
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Synalepha

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Synalepha » 2020-02-07, 18:34

Shark of Capitalism wrote:
Synalepha wrote:No, I don't know how.

Does anybody know?


Do you know?

And all Turkic latin alphabets I know are definitely better than cyrillic ones!


By what standards?

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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 19:02

Synalepha wrote:Do you know?

I don't know: only Russians know

Synalepha wrote:By what standards?

There are no standarts: only Russians are standarts
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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby voron » 2020-02-07, 23:21

Russia's decision to enforce Cyrillic in all its territory is apparently based on political and not linguistic reasons and they openly say it. Even in the article that you quoted:

введение латиницы в Татарстане поставило бы под угрозу общую безопасность и целостность России, а прецедент мог бы создать условия для появления подобных тенденций и в других регионах страны.

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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-08, 6:08

voron wrote:Russia's decision to enforce Cyrillic in all its territory is apparently based on political and not linguistic reasons and they openly say it. Even in the article that you quoted:

введение латиницы в Татарстане поставило бы под угрозу общую безопасность и целостность России, а прецедент мог бы создать условия для появления подобных тенденций и в других регионах страны.

Are you trying to say that it is not square of incredible idiocy?
So mighty state is afraid of ABC :lol:


BTW

Russian linguists usually claim that only latin could be because of political reasons but cyrillic is because it fits to every possible language better than every other writing system. Because latin has digraphs and polygraphs diacritics and other "linguistic" bullshit. So their only decision is that cyrillic is the best and the only possible choice because Stalin said so. Sometimes they do say cyrllic is a political decision but only in context that any alphabet is political decision so everybody should write in cyrillic. Or that there is no difference between alphabets at all and make the same "conclusion". But in fact there is no reason in discussion latin vs. cyrillic having such a prohibition! And they also like to talk about "economy" a lot. Without jokes they can say that the reforming of the Russian orthography is a great economy because they don't write Ъъ after almost every single word. I think, they go mad about "optimising" alphabets since that time... They also like to reuse matches or keep gas fired "for economy". So because Russian linguists are "beyond politics"(tm) they avoid to say that cyrillic was 100% politics.


Shark of Capitalism wrote:Some people say that alphabets are just matter of politics (somebody said that he just obeyed the orders) but outlawing alphabets is Stalin's nazi politics!



Shark of Capitalism wrote:But the question in general is important too: like the human rights declaration: we have the right or we haven't?



So if it's political decision we may do nothing, what do you think?
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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-08, 7:29

Saim wrote:Shark of Capitalism, this in fact isn’t a linguistics forum

So no linguistics is allowed, isn't it?
And no politics in the "Politics and Religion" section)))))
(because somebody became very upset... https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php ... 0#p1142714)

Saim wrote:(Hint: the part where they use Cyrillic is a sovereign state).

HINT Mongolia was as sovereign that time as South Ossetia now. So it was a sovereign state de jure but totally controlled by Russia de facto so they use cyrillic not because they realised its dukhovnost'... In fact I don't know the modern-time example of accepting cyrillic without Russian enforcing.


As to "linguists" I mean not only scholars but everybody who are related somehow to linguistics. E.g. learning grammar rules in school is linguistics!


PS

As far as I can say, Serbia is trying to outlaw latin too https://www.segodnya.ua/world/wnews/v-s ... 58901.html
;-)


PPS

Saim wrote:this in fact isn’t a linguistics forum

So what is this forum in fact???
I see a lot of moderators here, so I expect an official answer!
Backseat moderators, please don't disturb.
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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-08, 8:32

Johanna wrote:The minority languages of the Soviet Union were a bit of an oddity, to be honest.

Saim wrote:I don’t see why Swedish in Cyrillic is any more absurd than, say, Mongolian in Cyrillic (in fact Swedish is a great deal closer to Old Church Slavonic than Mongolian is).

Johanna, I have to warn you that Swedes are the next "bit of an oddity"...
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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-08, 8:50

Shark of Capitalism wrote:Maybe linguists don't like alphabets themselves, just may not say it! Now they are allowed to)))))

Saim wrote:I don’t think alphabets are particularly important to linguists or discussed all that much in linguistic research. I guess they’re somewhar relevant to sociolinguistics and language policy, sure.

Super!
Maybe they even communicate with each other using IPA or something like this!!!
Oops: IPA is an alphabet too...
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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Saim » 2020-02-10, 9:25

Shark of Capitalism wrote:As far as I can say, Serbia is trying to outlaw latin too https://www.segodnya.ua/world/wnews/v-s ... 58901.html
;-)


Nope, false.

So what is this forum in fact???


https://unilang.org/about.php?sid=bcb8f ... 0fd53e0b30

Hope that helps.

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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-10, 10:08

Saim wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:As far as I can say, Serbia is trying to outlaw latin too https://www.segodnya.ua/world/wnews/v-s ... 58901.html
;-)


Nope, false.

Do you not think that you are betraying Mother Russia!?


Saim wrote:Shark of Capitalism, this in fact isn’t a linguistics forum
Saim wrote:
So what is this forum in fact???


https://unilang.org/about.php?sid=bcb8f ... 0fd53e0b30

Hope that helps.
UniLang is a non-profit organisation dedicated to languages and language learning. We have aimed to build an on-line language community where people from all over the world with the same passion for languages, whether a language in particular or languages and LINGUISTICS in general, can come together to communicate with one another and find friends and resources to facilitate their learning. -- Help yourself, my Serbian friend)




So are alphabets important for the people from all over the world with the same passion for languages, whether a language in particular or languages and linguistics in general?
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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-10, 10:16

And through the pleasant community atmosphere here at UniLang, new friendships with people from all over the globe can easily arise.

!
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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Saim » 2020-02-10, 11:34

Shark of Capitalism wrote:So are alphabets important for the people from all over the world with the same passion for languages, whether a language in particular or languages and linguistics in general?


Sure, I guess for at least some of them it would be "important". I don't consider alphabets to be "important", really, but I do enjoy learning them. So far I know Latin, Cyrillic, Arabic (both Naskh and Nastaleeq), Devanagari and Gurmukhi. I don't have much reading fluency in the latter two but I'm working on it -- in any case, that's more tied to learning to read Hindi and Punjabi (so again, the alphabet itself is secondary).

I've also been studying Chinese characters as part of my journey through Mandarin but that's a whole different ball game.

Shark of Capitalism wrote:
And through the pleasant community atmosphere here at UniLang, new friendships with people from all over the globe can easily arise.

!


To what extent would you consider that you're contributing to that atmosphere?

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Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-10, 17:03

Saim wrote:To what extent would you consider that you're contributing to that atmosphere?

Why are you asking me?
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