As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

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As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-06, 19:54

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... d-russians

I insist that everyone who calls himself linguist or everyone who learns languages or just everyone who speaks listens reads and writes has to fight against such an idiocy as aphabet prohibition!

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You can now save litertally dozens of languages just in two clicks: to register there is as simple as at the forum.


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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Saim » 2020-01-06, 22:04

Is this about Crimean Tatar or Volga Tatar?

Why should we appeal to an ethnocidal assimilationist state to stop another one? Shouldn’t we be making petitions about indigenous peoples and Cajuns and the Pennsylvania Dutch?

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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-07, 6:22

Saim wrote:Is this about Crimean Tatar or Volga Tatar?

As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation and the other people still are occupied by russians

В Российской Федерации алфавиты государственного языка Российской Федерации и государственных языков республик строятся на графической основе кириллицы.

The alphabet of the official language of Russian Federation [Russian] and the alphabets of the republics [of RF] are based on the graphic basis of cyrillic at Russian Federation.
(The translations looks ugly, but first of all the sence is ugly: it is practically impossible to formulate alphabet prohibition using alphabet but russians have managed to do it%%%%% Secondly it is the original style))))))

So as we could see this is about Crimean Tatar Volga Tatar and many other nations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republics_of_Russia For example see the official languages of Dagestan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagestan# ... _languages

Saim wrote:Shouldn’t we be making petitions about indigenous peoples and Cajuns and the Pennsylvania Dutch?

As I see it is not yet prohibited to write latin in Serbia)))))
It means that you are allowed to make such a petition even in cyrillic by the way!

Saim wrote:an ethnocidal assimilationist state

I was to China Town in NY. They barely speak English!!! There are lots of Chinese hieroglyphs everywhere even in subway signs so they are used officially! But russians forced Dungan people(Chinese speaking Muslims) to use cyrillic instead of arabic script they used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiao'erjing !!! I know some US Ukrainians and they speak Ukrainian pretty well in spite they live in the USA for four or even more generations while to speak Ukrainian is still a problem in Ukraine! 10% of Crimean Tatars just migrated from Crimea to unoccupied Ukraine! (And it is definitely not the worst case((((( A half of Kazakhs died or escaped to China while russians took off their herds and tried to stop them to left them all die using machineguns. Up to 50% of Crimean Tatar died during Deportation... The point is that russians claim really want and try to REPEAT all of it!!!!! (The occupation of Crimean is the repeating of WWII.)) What about migrating Cajuns to France or Pennsylvania Dutch to the Netherlands? Yes we know about Trail of Tears and so on but nobody prohibits Cherokee people to write their own script! Russians is definitely the only case when not speakers edify speakers how to speak https://prognadzvy4ajn.livejournal.com/112643.html %%%%% And it is the only nowdays case of such a prohibition! Note that russians obliterated almost all arabic script books at AD 1920s and murdered almost all literate people. Then they do the same with latin script books and their authors in AD 1930s. That is how we got that bloody cyrillic. For example immediately after the first occupation of Crimea at the end of the AD XVIIIth century russians collected and burnt all the Crimean Tatar manuscripts! By the way, if a russian says that you are clever it almost always means that he wants to offence or threaten you %%%%% So if I can stop such an impossible thing as alphabet prohibition I do it even appealing to the USA!

As to language prohibition there is no such official restriction, but unofficially russians do it quite "frankly": e.g. Сообщения следует писать на русском языке. Использование английского языка и транслитерации допускается только в крайнем случае. Использование любых других языков запрещается. (using of any language except Russian or maybe English is prohibited) It is the main Russian Federation IT site BTW!!! (Do you know something like that in Ukraine the USA EU etc?!)

Saim wrote:Why should we appeal to an ethnocidal assimilationist state to stop another one? Shouldn’t we be making petitions about indigenous peoples and Cajuns and the Pennsylvania Dutch?

OK We have understood that the USA is a bad country. But what do you exactly propose now to save all the nations and indigenous peoples and Cajuns and Pennsylvania Dutch in particular? To force all of them to write in cyrillic?
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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-07, 7:01

But you are right, my Serbian friend!
I think you will definitely like this one http://chng.it/5G7VPxGyc9 and definitely will sign it as I will definitely sign your petition about indigenous peoples and Cajuns and the Pennsylvania Dutch!

Thank you for the idea!
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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Vlürch » 2020-01-08, 1:43

As much as I wish Russia was balkanised and all the minorities gained freedom, there's simply no way that's going to happen no matter what kind of international campaigns are started. Russia will genocide all minorities and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. Any attempt to even slow down the genocides is only going to make the Russian government amp up their genocidal policies. There are only a couple of regions in Russia that aren't at least 50% ethnically Russian, and if there was any attempt from the outside to stop the genocide(s) in one region, all the other regions would kill all the non-Russians within a week to prevent the spread of freedom. I mean, Russia has arguably the strongest military in the entire world. They even have nuclear, biological and chemical weapons!

All non-Russians in Russia and all non-Chinese in China will be genocided within our lifetime, and all their languages will go extinct by 2050. By 2070 only 1% of the languages currently spoken in the world will remain. There's nothing we can do about it. It's depressing and makes me want to die, but the future will be dominated by a Russo-Chinese fascist coalition. At the very least the majority of European and Asian countries will descend into being anarcho-capitalist hellholes that make the world of Mad Max seem like a socialist utopia (because somehow that's possible, I don't know how but I know it will happen), where the extremely overpopulated masses overconsume cheap Chinese goods and where there's no law enforcement aside from private Russian companies that the rich racist gang leaders hire to kill undesirables.

Being Finnish, I may be safe, but that only makes me feel even worse about it. Like, the chances of Russia invading Finland are very slim (there's nothing here that they'd want) and even though we will become economically dominated by China, the people are so xenophobic that any attempt by China to colonise Finland would lead to 99% of Finns to rise up in arms and kill everyone who isn't "white" enough since Finns are racist as fuck. I almost wish Russia invaded Finland so that I could die before I see the world as it will be in 2030, let alone 2040 or 2050 or whatever... but I don't really want that to happen, obviously, but I really wish I could die before the point of no return is reached.

The only way to stop the Russian and Chinese genocides is to stop global capitalism and create a system that enables enforcement of human rights, but neither is going to happen so both happening is beyond impossible. Literally even the "good things" about the future are bad things because down the line they'll only lead to even worse things; I love multiculturalism and wish for melting pot societies, but with the global rise of nationalism and xenophobia and growing inequality and segregation, that means more genocides are right around the corner...

The world is doomed. It's probably best to try not to think about it and focus on the little things that are good in your life.

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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-08, 8:19

Vlürch wrote:The world is doomed. It's probably best to try not to think about it and focus on the little things that are good in your life.

For example you may sign the petitions: Without doubts it would be a very good little thing in your life!
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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-08, 14:25

Vlürch wrote:balkanised

I would præfer "USised*"...
Capital city of Russian Federation** should be Novosibirsk***.
Flag of Russian Federation should be this:
Image
Official language of Russian Federation should be French****.



__
*It is very important to say that there may not be any secret balloting! (I have a lot of experience of the election of AD 2004-2005 in Ukraine, just for case))))))
**Have you known that officially USSR was not even a federation but a confederation? E.g. soviet Ukraine is a cofounder of UN! But russians still cannot realise that Ukraine is an independent state%%%%%
***Moscow and Saint Petersburg(it was a russian capital for some period but Moscow still was a "sacral capital") have very bad karma. E.g. dozens of thousands Ukrainians Kazan Tatars and other peoples were forced by russians to build Saint Petersburg as slaves and a lot of them died there so Saint Petersburg stays literally on human bones. In Moscow russians now keep the mummy(!) of Lenin in the pyramid(!!). Have you known that he was a sort of a live mummy for dozen of years because of brain syphilis but still was an official head of USSR? After Lenin died russians take out his syphilitical brain, sliced(sic!) it and keep it now in the Institute of Brain because they think that he was a genius because they like Red Terror(it's an official term!) very much. Now they have monuments of Lenin in every city town and village but in soviet time it was literally at each corner in each school and I think that even in kindergartens were statues or portraits of Lenin. Russians still think that Pavlik Morozov is the best example for children and they do think that Lenin is still alive(no joke)!
****Have you known that russians have impressive tradition of francophonie? All of the russian classical writers were French speakers. Their French speaking even became a problem in case of Napoleon invasion))))) (Yes, I have read War and Peace and other russian classics very carefully!) Technically it is not a problem to make French official again! France and Quebec are interested in spreading francophonie. So they just have to give money to hire French teachers in Sub-Saharan Africa!! At least russian schoolchildren will have a chance to see a teacher that understand what he is talking about: e.g. they learn English up to 15 years but cannot say anything. (To be accurate I should also say that French wasn't in fact an "official" language in Russia but definitely the most prestigious and well known by the russian establishment: e.g. Pushkin(russians still cannot say how many slaves he hadLOL) knew French better than Russian... It was also German in universities so russians could speak German too. Most of that French-German speaking russians were then murdered or escaped to Western countries. So we can see sometimes an image of that "prestigious" russian in Western movies. Funny: For example in Ukraine we now Polish people by their szlachta Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars fought against/with but Americans know Polish people by mostly poor work migrants...)
Last edited by Shark of Capitalism on 2020-01-12, 9:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Saim » 2020-01-08, 22:54

Yes, my maximum political aspiration is to force Cajuns to use Cyrillic.

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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-09, 0:04

So you can find here
https://lingvoforum.net/index.php?topic=983.0
https://lingvoforum.net/index.php?topic=140.0
your like-minded coven of how to turn every possible language into cyrillic!
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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Vlürch » 2020-01-09, 15:32

Shark of Capitalism wrote:For example you may sign the petitions

Signing petitions won't do anything. Millions signed the petition opposing the EU's new copyright law, yet they passed it... and the EU is supposed to not only be democratic but the very model of democracy for the world to emulate, unlike Russia, which doesn't even try to be democratic. Petitions rarely lead to action, and action rarely goes beyond sanctions, and sanctions are meaningless or even harmful. Russia, Iran and even North Korea are thriving in spite of (or because of) all the sanctions, at least in part because the sanctions give them a justification for the nationalistic "us against them" mentality.
Shark of Capitalism wrote:Flag of Russian Federation should be this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... st.svg.png

Why?
Shark of Capitalism wrote:Official language of Russian Federation should be French****.

If you consider France a model for how linguistic policies should be handled, I have no words. France is one of the countries that have pulled off the most successful linguicides, and to this day continue to restrict the usage of languages other than French.
Shark of Capitalism wrote:turn every possible language into cyrillic!

I just want to point out that Cyrillic is just a writing system like any other, not some nefarious tool for Russification. Of course people, not only at the national level but much more importantly at the individual level, should be allowed to use any writing system they want; sometimes I like to write Finnish and Japanese in Cyrillic just for fun, but does that mean I support Russification? Absolutely not. Forcing people to use a writing system they don't want to use isn't much better than forcing people to use a language they don't want to use, and the former may well lead to the latter. No language or writing system should be banned.

I mean, I get the mindset that Cyrillic is dangerous; I used to have it myself back in the day. Hell, a couple of years ago I briefly thought that being able to read the Arabic script was going to somehow inevitably sooner or later make me sympathetic to radical Islamists, as if the script itself had menticidal properties, but obviously that didn't happen. I was simply extremely paranoid about Islamisation at the time, both for personal reasons and media fearmongering, and tried really hard to be a militant atheist (but that didn't work since I still believed in God and stuff, and of course my own inability to stop believing in God made me even more anti-religious), and while you may argue that because Russification is a more serious threat than Islamisation since the former is a threat even at its best while the latter is only a threat in its worst, it's not the same thing, I'd disagree because at the end of the day writing systems are just writing systems.

Most people may be blind sheep and rabid wolves, and maybe Sapir-Whorfism is the ultimate truth and people who grow up speaking one language may have radically different ways of thinking than the speakers of other languages, but that would only mean that multilingualism should be encouraged. The only imposition of languages should be that done on kids in the name of progress, and only if the new language doesn't replace the language of their parents... and the only exception to that is if the parents don't want their kids to learn their language for whatever reason, but society should encourage multilingualism and multiculturalism.

As for how society could move forward if human nature is to oppose change and to be selfish and hateful, the first step would be making sure that education is as good as it can be, and not good only in the sense that kids are taught about all the horrible things in the world and the atrocities of history but also good in the sense that it encourages them to be good people. For example, kids who make racist remarks in spite of being educated about the horrors of racism should be punished, and if their parents defended the kids' racism, the kids should be taken from the parents and adopted by non-racists. Children should have the right to be raised by people who have a positive influence on them.

Maybe you'll say "but that'd be a violation of the parents' human rights!" and you'd probably be right, but if someone wants to restrict the human rights of others in some way, then they should have no problem not having those rights (or equivalent rights) themselves: for example, if someone thinks homosexual relationships shouldn't be allowed, then they shouldn't have the right to have heterosexual relationships.

Maybe you'll say "but that's a dictatorship!" and you'd be right. I don't know about you, but I'd rather live in a progressive dictatorship than a conservative dictatorship, and a left-wing dictatorship rather than a right-wing dictatorship. I know Finland is never going to succumb to dictatorship again (without a new civil war, and a new civil war isn't going to happen) so for me it's all hypothetical, but I mean, even the worst left-wing dictatorship would at the very least be left-wing. The perfect society would be a multicultural melting pot where everyone is a progressive leftist and no form of discrimination exists, but human nature prevents that from ever becoming a reality. That's why it's called a utopia.

Maybe I'm just a privileged little shit who should be killed before he breeds (not that I ever will), who knows? Maybe peace and love aren't the way forward after all, maybe fascists are right, maybe God really does want people to kill each other over every little thing, blah blah blah, but if that's the case, then I don't want to be on the right side of history.

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just some notes

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-09, 17:49

Vlürch wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:For example you may sign the petitions

Signing petitions won't do anything.

What do you propose?

Vlürch wrote:Russia, Iran and even North Korea are thriving in spite of (or because of) all the sanctions, at least in part because the sanctions give them a justification for the nationalistic "us against them" mentality.

It is exactly what I'am thinking about!!! So my aim is to get a certain result just now but avoid such endless wars of sanctions.

Vlürch wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:Flag of Russian Federation should be this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... st.svg.png

Why?

Why not?)))))
In fact I had thought about something like it then I saw it and loved it!

Vlürch wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:Official language of Russian Federation should be French****.

If you consider France a model for how linguistic policies should be handled, I have no words. France is one of the countries that have pulled off the most successful linguicides, and to this day continue to restrict the usage of languages other than French.

I know all that stuff, I have written a lot why Franch in the footnote.

Vlürch wrote:No language or writing system should be banned.

I also think that we have to do something if it is banned! Surely I don't think that cyrillic or arabic or latin or whatever else is a problem: We write Ukrainian in cyrillic and Crimean Tatar in latin without any enforcement.

Vlürch wrote:Russia, which doesn't even try to be democratic

Not exactly(This is why what I propose is possible). As I have written the metter is very Kafkaesque. So a russian could tell you a lot how good totalitarianism and Stalinism are but if you said him that Russia weren't a democracy he would be very upset. For example users at the IT forum I have mentioned may say that there are lots of official languages in Russia but then say that none of them are alowed at the forum and think that it is normal. Russians are extremely proud of their "nazism-winning" but they are also proud of GULAG and so on and quite aggressively expect you to be proud too...

BTW
Have you known that there is not very numerous but very active Kazan Tatar community in Finland?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEPKh-YHCBg
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Re: just some notes

Postby Vlürch » 2020-01-09, 18:56

Shark of Capitalism wrote:What do you propose?

I don't. Nothing can be done about Russia (or China) becoming world dominators at this point.
Shark of Capitalism wrote:It is exactly what I'am thinking about!!! So my aim is to get a certain result just now but avoid such endless wars of sanctions.

But the only thing signing petitions will lead to, and that's only in the best case, is more sanctions. The US isn't going to invade Russia and give the people freedom even if every single US citizen signed a petition demanding that, and even if the US invaded Russia, they wouldn't be bringing freedom. And anything short of an invasion to keep them busy is going to make Russia amp up its genocidal policies, and an invasion could well only get them to amp them up into hyperdrive and just focus on slaughtering all minorities so that they couldn't be liberated, and the war would from that point on be pointless.

If I sound like a paranoid pessimist, well, I hope I am, but I'm pretty sure I'm just a realist. The future is going to suck.
Shark of Capitalism wrote:Why not?)))))
In fact I had thought about something like it then I saw it and loved it!

Well, it's the flag of one tiny region of Russia, and replacing a national flag with a regional flag would probably not be perceived positively by most outside that region... not to mention it's the flag of the so-called Jewish region (whose population isn't even 1% Jewish, but still), since Russians are pretty fucking antisemitic... and that it has a rainbow on it, which makes it similar to the LGBT flag, and Russia is homophobic as fuck...

But purely aesthetically speaking, yeah, it's a cool flag. Rainbow flags are awesome. :D I'm also not going to be ashamed of admitting that I wish Finland's flag was changed.
Shark of Capitalism wrote:I know all that stuff, I have written a lot why Franch in the footnote.

Yeah, okay, I probably misunderstood what you were saying; I thought you were implying France had a good linguistic policy, which wouldn't really make sense if you want to protect linguistic diversity. That's why I thought it was pretty fucked up.
Shark of Capitalism wrote:I also think that we have to do something if it is banned! Surely I don't think that cyrillic or arabic or latin or whatever else is a problem: We write Ukrainian in cyrillic and Crimean Tatar in latin without any enforcement.

But there's nothing we can do about Russia (and China, or any country) perpetrating linguicides or even outright genocides involving organised mass killings; even the UN has no real power to stop any of the dozens of ongoing genocides around the world. If the UN can't do anything about them, what do you think you can do?
Shark of Capitalism wrote:Not exactly(This is why what I propose is possible). As I have written the metter is very Kafkaesque. So a russian could tell you a lot how good totalitarianism and Stalinism are but if you said him that Russia weren't a democracy he would be very upset. For example users at the IT forum I have mentioned may say that there are lots of official languages in Russia but then say that none of them are alowed at the forum and think that it is normal. Russians are extremely proud of their "nazism-winning" but they are also proud of GULAG and so on and quite aggressively expect you to be proud too...

Yeah, but the Russian government isn't even trying to be democratic in the sense of caring about people's wishes. They may pass the kind of laws that "the people" want, like legalising the beating of women and children, which by the definitions of western democracy is not democratic even if it's what the majority want (which I hope to fuck isn't the case but wouldn't be surprised if it was), but again, by the definitions of western democracy that's not democratic... and another part of western democracy is political freedom, which obviously doesn't exist in Russia. So by western definitions, Russia isn't democratic or even trying to be.
Shark of Capitalism wrote:Have you known that there is not very numerous but very active Kazan Tatar community in Finland?

Yeah.

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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-09, 19:25

First of all I have to say again that the matter of the petitions is extremely straightforward: We have an alphabet prohibition and we have to stop it because it concerns not only the people that are now forced to write and read in unnatural way but all the people in the World!



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Re: just some notes

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-09, 21:35

Vlürch wrote:If the UN can't do anything about them, what do you think you can do?
Let's don't forget that single Finn was able to kill literally hundreds of russians and burn russian tank having just Molotov's cocktail. I can speak of what I want, as I want and in language I want and russians are not able to kill me -- this is the point!
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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Vlürch » 2020-01-10, 0:52

Shark of Capitalism wrote:We have an alphabet prohibition and we have to stop it

Again, how are you going to stop one of the most powerful and oppressive governments in the world from oppressing people? What would signing a petition do, except maybe give Russian intelligence a list of people who want to stop them from oppressing people? Like I already said, the petition for the EU to not pass the new copyright law was signed by millions but they still passed it and now countries are being forced to implement it (even the ones that voted against it). If the EU is the "bastion of democracy", the most democratic place in the world, and not even one country, how could one country that's less democratic be pressured to act on a petition demanding them to risk starting a war with an even less democratic country? Would a war between the US and Russia be good for anyone? Do you expect Tatars and other minorities to not end up getting fucked in such a war?
Shark of Capitalism wrote:write and read in unnatural way

What's unnatural about it? You know, there exists a standardised Cyrillic alphabet for Crimean Tatar alongside the Latin one, and while I'd agree the Latin one looks cooler and is more practical, there are people who use the Cyrillic one and grew up using it. I'm pretty sure they consider Cyrillic perfectly natural, or they'd have already switched to Latin on their own. Should they be forced to switch to Latin?
Shark of Capitalism wrote:Let's don't forget that single Finn was able to kill literally hundreds of russians and burn russian tank having just Molotov's cocktail.

Please don't tell me you're saying you support terrorism...? I mean, I'll admit that I still dislike and distrust Russians more than any other nationality because I've never had an entirely positive interaction with one (unless a member on this forum answering language-related questions counts), and while I can usually ignore history, there's some between Finland and Russia that's pretty hard to ignore, but that still doesn't mean I'd celebrate any and all violence against Russians.

Obviously I wouldn't complain about violence against Russian nationalists, you know, but violence only leads to more violence unless the problem is dealt with at its root: people's attitudes. Once you start going down the path of violence, it doesn't take long for you to become the bad guy even if you started out with the best intentions because violence itself is the ultimate problem that somehow needs to be resolved.

If you accept "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" as true, you're going to end up allying with people who'll sooner or later see you as the enemy, but before that you'll help them grow stronger and more radical. The textbook example is the US supporting the Taliban, but more recently the growth of the alt-right has partially similar causes.
Shark of Capitalism wrote:I can speak of what I want, as I want and in language I want and russians are not able to kill me -- this is the point!

Uh... doesn't the Russian government have a history of assassinating people in other countries who get too vocal in their criticism of the Russian government, though? :para:

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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-10, 7:42

Vlürch wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:Let's don't forget that single Finn was able to kill literally hundreds of russians and burn russian tank having just Molotov's cocktail.

Please don't tell me you're saying you support terrorism...?

*single Finn is able...
I mean first of all Winter War Simo Häyhä and so on
Note that in that time "Mother Russia" was relatively much more powerful and absolutely much more oppressive. But Finns didn't say "Nothing can be done about Russia (or China) becoming world dominators at this point."!

Vlürch wrote:What would signing a petition do

First of all we should state that
A. we have such a problem.
B. it must be resolved.
This is what the petitions do.

You say that the USA, EU, Japan and others will do nothing against "Mother Russia". But they are already doing a lot! Firstly "Mother Russia" produce nothing except image of own powerfullness, secondly what can do a single country (even the USA) against whole World!? Note that russians in fact have declared the war against the World: they state that we have to choose between "Mother Russia" and the World as we have to choose between russian "law" and international law including human rights in case of Crimea... Putin's rhetoric of "martyrs" and "paradise" is exact terrorist's rhetoric! So what I say must be done and it is possible because of political situation. You might say ten years ago that nothing could be done but not now.

Vlürch wrote:Would a war between the US and Russia be good for anyone? Do you expect Tatars and other minorities to not end up getting fucked in such a war?

The point is that the aim of the sanctions I propose is to stop prohibition of alphabets. So what could russians say?! "We are loosing huge amount of money and almost all our middle-class and are going to start a war to loose everything else just to not allow Kazan Tatars to choose alphabet they want because we are such a great country and don't obey the USA!"???

Vlürch wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:write and read in unnatural way

What's unnatural about it? You know, there exists a standardised Cyrillic alphabet for Crimean Tatar alongside the Latin one, and while I'd agree the Latin one looks cooler and is more practical, there are people who use the Cyrillic one and grew up using it. I'm pretty sure they consider Cyrillic perfectly natural, or they'd have already switched to Latin on their own. Should they be forced to switch to Latin?

Unnatural because they were forced to use cyrillic. Or their teachers were. Why do you think that anybody is going to force them to use latin? You have already said that cyrillic is used alongside latin. Note that soviet cyrillics besides were introduced by terror were uglified on purpose!

Vlürch wrote:The textbook example is the US supporting the Taliban

Show me that textbook. The USA supported Afghans in war againts russians. But what would they support Taliban for?!

Vlürch wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:I can speak of what I want, as I want and in language I want and russians are not able to kill me -- this is the point!

Uh... doesn't the Russian government have a history of assassinating people in other countries who get too vocal in their criticism of the Russian government, though? :para:

So what?
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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-10, 8:38

I state that banning the russian IT is quite effective way to make "Mother Russia" stop prohibitibg alphabets: https://www.quora.com/How-is-Russia-sti ... at-Gubaiev Also it should be done because programming concerns languages in spite they are artificial ones. I think you may go to a Swedish forum and write whatever in Finnish. But russians react extremely aggressively on Ukrainian not only at every resource they consider "russian" but at Ukrainian ones as well. Sometimes it looks like we may not write in the Internet as we want because russians have access to the Internet too... But nobody prohibits to write in any language in any alphabet at Ukrainian sites! So they want to not allow us to speak and in the same time sell us their words as software. It is unacceptable!


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Re: just some notes

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-10, 9:09

Vlürch wrote:the Russian government isn't even trying to be democratic in the sense of caring about people's wishes.

I wouldn't say the russian government do something russians don't really want maybe except some democratic stuff to be welcomed in Western countries. E.g. Lenin was a terrorist: this is how he called his policy of terror himself because it was "cool" that times like to support the Palestinian terrorists now. So russians have the mummy of a terrorist in the center of their capital and the monuments of a terrorist in each settlement and really don't want to get rid of them!!! By the way, in spite communist almost destroyed russian Ortodoxy by murdering priests and blowing up churches russians consider themselves communists and Ortodoxes at the same time%%%%% (And they stopped the destruction only because religion became allowed under German occupation!!!)
Last edited by Shark of Capitalism on 2020-01-12, 10:24, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: just some notes

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-01-10, 9:18

Vlürch wrote:you want to protect linguistic diversity.

That is why I think that it would be nice to get another large country of French. I would even say that I don't like hegemony of English! English speakers sometimes even behave like russians: they claim that everybody have to know English%%%%% Besides French is considered by English speakers as prestigious usually they don't know it. So English speakers will get additional motivation to learn French)))))
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Re: As to surviving of the Crimean Tatar nation....

Postby Gormur » 2020-01-10, 17:51

Hm. Apparently, i fail to understand this subject. I mean what's wrong with Tatarstan? I think Russia is doing well right now. This seems like a political debate :hmm:
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma


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