Random language thread 6

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Ciarán12

Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-11-24, 14:02

I just saw a video from 1964 filmed in Dublin interviewing working class people about a housing crisis that was going on at the time and the interviewer said "these minor inconveniences don't put in on the people here..." which is not a phrase I've ever heard in English before, but seems to mirror the Irish phrase "cuir isteach ar dhuine" exactly and has the same meaning (from what I could tell from the context). I imagine it's a piece of Hiberno-English that's succumbed to de-creolisation as Hiberno-English becomes ever less diatinctive.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Osias » 2019-11-25, 20:28

I read a text questioning most of the mainstream views on creole languages and even the concept of "de-creolisation".
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-11-25, 21:40

Osias wrote:I read a text questioning most of the mainstream views on creole languages and even the concept of "de-creolisation".


Well, regardless of whether decreolisation is the correct term, the concept that dialects merge and can lose thier distinctiveness is certainly confirmed and I can see it happening here by the year. In this case, the term "put in on someone" almost certainly came from Irish, and it's not used anymore because of dialect levelling, so what would you call that?

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Osias » 2019-11-25, 23:36

I don't know. I suggest to read the whole thing: https://www.cairn.info/revue-francaise- ... ge-11.htm#
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-11-26, 0:33

Well, for starters that guys seems like he's got and axe to grind,⁰ and almost none of what he's saying applies to the situation I'm talking about. For example, when he starts to describe how decreolisation is not a thing, he starts by positing that decreolisation is supossed to occur due to the improverished nature of the creole vs the lexifier language, and as, as he argues, there is no such structural poverty in the creole to begin with this means it's not a thing. Well, I'll admit I'm not a linguist, let alone a scholar of creole languages, but I've never heard anyone with a half-way decent education claim creoles are lesser or "degenerate" or the simplistic apelike grunting of subhuman cave people or whatever else it is he supposes people always mean when they say "creole", and if I had I'd have laughed in their face. As far as I'm aware, "decreolisation" in the context of Hiberno-English assumes that a) much of the distinctive features of Hiberno-English derive from the Irish spoken by the population prior to the anglicisation of Ireland, and b) that due to the dominace of standard English in media and academia, this distinctiveness is being replaced by language that conforms better to the standard. It's really very difficult to argue that either of those things aren't the case, which means either the author of that article is seeing things only through the lense of his own experience or I'm using the word "creole" and "decreolisation" wrong, in which case I'd like to know what is the term for what I mean because it certainly seems like "decreolisation" would be the appropriate term...

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Osias » 2019-11-26, 1:25

:hmm:
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby linguoboy » 2019-12-04, 21:21

For the most part, I'm finding the dialect in Un nos ola leuad relatively transparent. (The author is from Bethesda in North-West Wales.) But cnegwarth had me absolutely stumped. I never would have thought to connect it to ceiniogwerth (lit. "pennyworth"). /e/ > /a/ in the final syllable is a bog-standard northern feature, but ceiniog > cneg? Yffarn dân!
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-12-05, 23:56

Bunleagan an ailt anseo as Gaeilge.

English speakers demand language rights in Camaroon


English speakers are demanding their right to services in English in the bilingual country. The minister for Arts and Culture of the current government has put a bill before the Cameroonian parliament this week in order to further French-English bilingualism.

Minister Ismael Bidoung Kpwatt, who brought the bill before parliament, said that it "will show commitment from the government" toward the "heritage of part of the country".

"The aim of the bill is to put in place bilingual rights in our country. The government will ensure with this bill, through training and other means, that both English and French will be encouraged in both state and private companies in our country." he said.

English and French have official status in Camaroon, but English speakers are a minority with only 20% of people opting for English as their chosen language. English speakers have long been complaining of the lack of services and respect for their language.

Two years ago, objections arose among English speakers and the French state concerning language matters among other things.The movement that started with those protests in 2017 has continued to progress in Camaroon.

Last month, the president of Camaroon Paul Biya ordered that 500 translators and interpreters be recruited for the state services in a bid to put an end to the unrest in the English section of Camaroon.

Almost 250 languages are spoken in Camaroon, although only English and French have official status. Those two colonial languages have official state language status, whereas the dozens of other langauges have only 'national' status, languages which are native to Camaroon and native to the countries surrounding it. American Sign Language and African French Sign Language are used there, as well as Pidgin French and Pidgin English.

Although Camaroon is a "bilingual country", few people there speak both French and English, and many speak neither of the two official languages.



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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Synalepha » 2019-12-13, 13:24

The joy of borrowing words:

pagamento contactless (contactless payment) has been shortened to conta(c)t at least in the vernacular of my city.

So the exact opposite of what it's supposed to mean.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Yasna » 2019-12-13, 23:34

"Mr. Buttigieg used to say his name was pronounced “Buddha judge.” When he went national he changed it to what his crowds now chant: “boot edge edge.”"
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Dormouse559 » 2019-12-13, 23:43

Yasna wrote:"Mr. Buttigieg used to say his name was pronounced “Buddha judge.” When he went national he changed it to what his crowds now chant: “boot edge edge.”"

Well, if elected, he wouldn't be the first U.S. president to pronounce his name differently from the masses. Messrs. Roosevelt, I'm looking at you two.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Vlürch » 2019-12-14, 10:38

Yesterday, I found out about the existence of the Ersu Shaba script, which seems pretty interesting. I'd never heard of any real-life writing system where colour changes meaning, but welp, apparently that's a thing.
Yasna wrote:"Mr. Buttigieg used to say his name was pronounced “Buddha judge.”

/bʊddʱə d͡ʒʌd͡ʒ/? :P

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Osias » 2019-12-14, 15:20

The color aspect is the less weird part.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby razlem » 2019-12-18, 6:05

I finally got some Chickasaw learning material to supplement the analytical dictionary. We're using Chickasaw/Choctaw grammar to reconstitute the Houma language :D
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Synalepha » 2019-12-18, 11:26

razlem wrote:I finally got some Chickasaw learning material to supplement the analytical dictionary. We're using Chickasaw/Choctaw grammar to reconstitute the Houma language :D


It would be cool if you talked about this on your channel. (Love it btw) :P
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby razlem » 2019-12-19, 1:48

Thank you! I've actually had to stop making videos while I work on the project, since we want to start going over grammar (and Muskogean grammar is wonderfully complex). But I'll be making videos in/for the the language once we're ready to teach people :)
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Synalepha » 2019-12-20, 21:33

Does anybody know whether Spanish, Portuguese and Catalan had different, non homonymic words for "season" and "station" at some point in history?
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Ciarán12

Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-12-20, 22:25

Synalepha wrote:Does anybody know whether Spanish, Portuguese and Catalan had different, non homonymic words for "season" and "station" at some point in history?


Apparently, Portuguese has the word sazão, but I've never heard it used.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby linguoboy » 2019-12-20, 22:42

Ciarán12 wrote:
Synalepha wrote:Does anybody know whether Spanish, Portuguese and Catalan had different, non homonymic words for "season" and "station" at some point in history?

Apparently, Portuguese has the word sazão, but I've never heard it used.

The Catalan cognate saó had this meaning (e.g. "Les quatre sahons del any que són primavera, estiu, tardor, hivern." [Llibre dels Secrets de Agricvltvra casa rvstica y pastoril, 1617]), but this is obsolete in the modern language.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Synalepha » 2019-12-20, 22:48

So is it possible to know whether they just merged by sheer phonological similarity or whether it was also a semantic thing? Metaphorically, each season could be seen as a different "station" of the year.
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