TAC 2019 - Vijay

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby księżycowy » 2019-02-04, 22:25

Which is fine. Things change as we go.

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-04, 22:27

I guess that's just kind of how it works then. :P

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-18, 7:49

I'm finally starting to catch up a bit with my Arabic again and also posted something today for Irish and Kurdish. Hopefully, I can catch up with Sumerian and Portuguese as well!

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-03-08, 3:43

Just last night, I discovered a TV series in Malayalam on YouTube called Njanga Ninga [ɲəˈŋa n̪iˈŋa], meaning something like 'our and y'all's' in some nonstandard variety of Malayalam. It has 60 episodes, each of which showcases a language variety spoken either in or very close to Kerala and teaches a few words and phrases in each. Most episodes seem to be for varieties of Malayalam, but one episode is for Tulu, and another is for Paniya, one of the languages that my dad's cousin wants me to help document! I'm pretty excited about this series, and my dad seems to be, too.

By now, both of us have seen the first episode, about the variety of Malayalam spoken in a village called Puthussery [pud̪uɕˈɕeːɾi] in Palakkad district. One or two of the new words is also used in Thiruvalla, where my parents are from, even though Thiruvalla is not particularly close to Palakkad (possibly closer than the host's hometown, though, since he's apparently from Kozhikode, which is much further north). Another vocabulary item that wasn't too surprising was [kɔjˈjaːka] for 'guava', since Palakkad is very close to Tamil Nadu and the Tamil equivalent AFAIK is something like [kɔjˈjaːpaɭam] (in our variety of Malayalam, and I guess also in the standard variety, it's [ˈpeːɾɛkʲa], which apparently comes from pera meaning 'pear' in Portuguese):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6htWW5353q8
Some of the first few vocabulary items in this video are (and these are all completely new to me):

[ˈaːʋi] - 'heat'. For us, this means 'steam', and 'heat' is [ˈt͡ʃuːɖɯ].
[t̪aːj] - 'handle'. We would say [piˈɖi] or [pɪˈɖi] like in the video.
[ˈmoːn̪d̪i] - 'evening'. I think we normally say [ˈʋɐjʈɯ] for this; the video uses the slightly more formal/standard equivalents [sən̪ˈd̪ʱja] (from Sanskrit) and [ʋɐjgʊn̪ˈn̪eːɾəm] instead.
([kɛɳɛˈtɪnde]) [pəɭˈɭa] - 'side (of a well)'. I think we would say [ʋəˈɕəm]. (The written text in) the video says [kəˈɾa], which maybe we would use, too, but I'm more familiar with this word in the sense of a border, shore, or riverbank.
[t͡ʃəgɨˈɖiːm t̪oːɳˈɖiːm] - 'bucket and rope'. I think we would say [kɔˈʈejʊm kaˈjərʊm] or, more casually, [kɔˈʈeːm ˈkajrʊm]. The video (text) says [kəˈpijʊm kaˈjərʊm], but I'm more familiar with [kəˈpi] meaning the kind of dough (made of rice flour) we use for making appams.
[ˈmiːrɯ] - 'ant(s)'. We say [uˈrumbɯ] or [ʊˈrʊmbɯ].
[ˈt͡ʃoːʈikʲɯ] - 'down(wards)'. I think we'd say [ˈt̪aːɻe], but the video says [ˈt̪aːɻət̪ɯ], which I'd think of as referring to a location rather than a direction (but I can see it being used for the direction, too).
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2019-05-14, 20:14, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby Saim » 2019-05-11, 12:48

That sounds awesome! It's cool to see something like that coming out of India. It kind of reminds me of the Catalan show Caçadors de paraules and the Galician show Ben falado.

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby OldBoring » 2019-05-11, 22:24

vijayjohn wrote:Just last night, I discovered a TV series in Malayalam on YouTube called Njanga Ninga [ɲəˈŋa n̪iˈŋa], meaning something like 'our and y'all's' in some nonstandard variety of Malayalam. It has 60 episodes, each of which showcases a language variety spoken either in or very close to Kerala and teaches a few words and phrases in each. Most episodes seem to be for varieties of Malayalam, but one episode is for Tulu, and another is for Paniya, one of the languages that my dad's cousin wants me to help document! I'm pretty excited about this series, and my dad seems to be, too.

By now, both of us have seen the first episode, about the variety of Malayalam spoken in a village called Puthussery [pud̪uɕˈɕeːɾi] in Palakkad district. One or two of the new words is also used in Thiruvalla, where my parents are from, even though Thiruvalla is not particularly close to Palakkad (possibly closer than the host's hometown, though, since he's apparently from Kozhikode, which is much further north). Another vocabulary item that wasn't too surprising was [kɔjˈjaːka] for 'guava', since Palakkad is very close to Tamil Nadu and the Tamil equivalent AFAIK is something like [kɔjˈjaːpaɭam] (in our variety of Malayalam, and I guess also in the standard variety, it's [ˈpeːɾɛkʲa], which apparently comes from pera meaning 'pear' in Portuguese):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6htWW5353q8&t=367s
Some of the first few vocabulary items in this video are (and these are all completely new to me):

[ˈaːʋi] - 'heat'. For us, this means 'steam', and 'heat' is [ˈt͡ʃuːɖɯ].
[t̪aːj] - 'handle'. We would say [piˈɖi] or [pɪˈɖi] like in the video.
[ˈmoːn̪d̪i] - 'evening'. I think we normally say [ˈʋɐjʈɯ] for this; the video uses the slightly more formal/standard equivalents [sən̪ˈd̪ʱja] (from Sanskrit) and [ʋɐjgʊn̪ˈn̪eːɾəm] instead.
([kɛɳɛˈtɪnde]) [pəɭˈɭa] - 'side (of a well)'. I think we would say [ʋəˈɕəm]. (The written text in) the video says [kəˈɾa], which maybe we would use, too, but I'm more familiar with this word in the sense of a border, shore, or riverbank.
[t͡ʃəgɨˈɖiːm t̪ɔɳˈɖiːm] - 'bucket and rope'. I think we would say [kɔˈʈejʊm kaˈjərʊm] or, more casually, [kɔˈʈeːm ˈkajrʊm]. The video (text) says [kəˈpijʊm kaˈjərʊm], but I'm more familiar with [kəˈpi] meaning the kind of dough (made of rice flour) we use for making appams.
[ˈmiːrɯ] - 'ant(s)'. We say [uˈrumbɯ] or [ʊˈrʊmbɯ].
[ˈt͡ʃoːʈikʲɯ] - 'down(wards)'. I think we'd say [ˈt̪aːɻe], but the video says [ˈt̪aːɻət̪ɯ], which I'd think of as referring to a location rather than a direction (but I can see it being used for the direction, too).

Too much Mayalayam

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-05-14, 4:11

Saim wrote:That sounds awesome! It's cool to see something like that coming out of India. It kind of reminds me of the Catalan show Caçadors de paraules and the Galician show Ben falado.

Thanks, and interesting!

I think my dad said that (he thinks) [ˈmiːrɯ] means a specific kind of ant that we call something else (I don't remember for sure which kind, though; I'm sure he mentioned [ˈt͡ʃoːnɛn] but not whether he said that was the same thing or he said something like "not that one, the other one!").

Here are the next few words from this video:

[ˈt͡ʃən̪d̪ɯ] or [ˈsən̪d̪ɯ] - 'road'. We say [ʋəˈɻi] like in the video.
[jiˈɖɯliʋəɻi] - 'side street'. We say [jiˈɖəʋəɻi] or [jɛˈɖəʋəɻi] like in the video.
[ˈʋeːlit̪əri] or [ˈʋeːlt̪əri] - 'wire fence' (if I understood correctly). We don't really have a word for this, hence the long-winded gloss in the video.
[pəˈsu] instead of [pəˈɕu] for 'cow' is just the same as in Tamil.
[pəˈɳiːm t̪ɔˈɾoːm ilˈleː] - apparently something like 'don't you have any work to do?'. [pəˈɳi ɔn̪ˈn̪um ilˈleː] literally means 'isn't there any work at all?' and is a common expression in Malayalam for 'don't you have anything else/better to do?' [pəˈɳiːm t̪ɔˈɾoːm] sounds like 'work and' + some word I don't recognize.
[pɛˈʈəmma] - 'girl'. We'd say [pɛɳˈkuʈi] like in the video.
[n̪əŋˈgi] - apparently 'tongue sole', a type of fish I'm unfamiliar with even in English. The video seems to suggest that it's more widely known as [ˈmaːn̪d̪a], and the guy says that in Kannur, in northern Kerala, they say [n̪əŋˈgɯ]. I wouldn't know about any of that. :P
[t̪əˈla muˈrijɛn məˈt̪i] - 'dried sardines'. We'd say [ɔˈɳəkija məˈt̪i] (literally 'dried sardines') like in the video or maybe [məˈt̪i ɔˈɳəkijəd̪ɯ] (literally 'sardines' + 'that which [unspecified subject] dried'). The written text in the white bubble is more vague and reads [ɔɳəkəˈmiːn], which just means 'dried fish'. [t̪əˈla muˈrijɛn məˈt̪i] sounds like it literally means 'sardines with their heads cut off'.
[t̪umˈmɯn̪n̪ɯ ʋaː] - 'come quick', maybe literally something like 'come so fast it sounds like zoom/[t̪umm]'? We'd say [pɛˈʈɛn̪n̪ɯ ʋaː] like in the video.

EDIT: Also, this is where this particular video (the first episode of Njanga Ninga) was shot.

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-05-14, 20:27

I suppose I should be using my TAC thread like everyone else does, to talk about how they're doing in their language studies. :P I've been doing quite a bit lately with Persian, Arabic, Turkish, and Kurdish in particular but also some Hebrew and/or Sumerian on the side, plus Portuguese whenever I get a chance.

The rest of the words in this video:

[ˈjiːt̪ɯ ʋəˈlikʲʊga] - 'to drag away'. The video text says [ʋəlit͡ʃɛˈɻəkʊga] (this was misspelled; should be [ʋəlit͡ʃɛˈɻɛkʲʊga]). I suppose that's what we'd say, too.
[məˈri] - 'time' (as in one time, two times, three times...). We could say [t̪əˈʋəɳa], the Dravidian word used in the video (for which a cognate is apparently only attested in Tamil), or we could say [ˈpraːʋəɕjəm], which usually seems to be pronounced [ˈpraːʋəɕəm] but is also often pronounced [ˈpraːɕəm] or even just [ˈraːɕəm].
[ˈɖaːʋɯ] - 'lie'. We use this word in our area, too (but I didn't realize what it actually meant until I asked my dad recently about it. I always thought it meant exaggerating or insulting or something). The standard Malayalam term seems to be [kəɭˈɭəm], which we also use but can also mean 'theft'.
[puˈɭu] - Same as [ˈɖaːʋɯ] but probably more specific to Puthussery since I've never heard this word before
[ʋɛɭɯˈtəmma] - 'paternal aunt'. I'm actually not sure what exactly we say for this since I call each of my paternal aunts by a different title/nickname.
[kuˈʈijəpɛn] - 'dad's younger brother'. We say [uˈpaːpɛn]. The host in the video says that where he comes from (Kozhikode, apparently), they say [kuˈʈəpɛn].
[kɔˈʈiːm ˈpuɭɭum] - some kind of kids' game, demonstrated in the video from 17:21 to 18:00. The video just translates this to the equivalent of 'kid and stick'.
[koːˈʈaːj] - 'yawn'. The video translates this as [koːʈɯˈʋaːj], but my dictionary just says [koːʈɯˈʋaː]. I don't remember which of these last two forms we use. [ʋaːj] is usually spelled as if it should be pronounced [ʋaːja] and means 'mouth'. [ˈkoːʈɯga] apparently means 'to bend, twist'.
[ʋəˈɭəm] - The video translates this word as [ˈt͡ʃaːɳəgəm] 'cowdung', but I wasn't aware of [ʋəˈɭəm] as a regionalism and thought it just meant 'fertilizer'. I'm not sure why they chose to include it in this video (does it specifically mean cowdung in this area?).
[ˈpaːsəm] - 'love', I guess. They say it means [ˈsneːhəm], which can mean 'love' but also just 'being nice'. I'm not sure what meaning they were going for here.
[ˈmuːnd͡ʒi] and [ˈmoːrɯ] - both 'face'. We'd say [muˈkʰəm] formally to match the spelling, but we can also pronounce it [mɔˈgəm] like in the video or even (probably more likely) [mɔˈhəm].
[ˈkuːʈəm ˈkuːɖʊga] - 'to talk, converse, have a conversation'. In other varieties of Malayalam, this means 'to gather around, assemble'. For this meaning, we may use [səmˈsaːɾikʲʊga] as in the video but only as a formal term. Informally, we would say [ʋərˈt̪aːnəm pəˈrejʊga].
[ˈoːd̪əm] - 'dampness'. The video translates this as [ˈiːrpəm]. [n̪əˈnəʋɯ] 'wetness' is another possible (near-)synonym.
[kəɳˈɖəm ˈpuːʈɯga] - 'to plow a field'. For us (and I guess other Malayalees, and probably even in this variety in other contexts), [ˈpuːʈɯga] means 'to lock'. They translate this as [uˈɻɯd̪ɯ məˈrikʲʊga] (literally something like 'to plow and turn over (the soil)'). My dictionary also says just [uˈɻʊga] means 'to plow the field'. I don't remember what term we use.
[kɔjˈjaːka] - 'guava'. I mentioned this earlier. I think it probably comes from English (as opposed to our own term, which apparently comes from Portuguese).

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-05-20, 17:25

Finally managed to move on to Spanish!

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-05-31, 6:58

And moved on from there to the BCS forum. See? Told you the Portuguese forum is the most active one (at least out of the ones I actually post in)! I stay on the Spanish forum for 11 days and on the Portuguese one for over seven months!

(Okay so that's mostly because of all the study groups. But still!)

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-06-02, 19:57

Moved on from BCS to Russian. That took at most two days.

I decided to post my schedule again to help myself keep track of which languages I have or haven't done and cross out the ones I have done, just like I used to:
► Show Spoiler

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby księżycowy » 2019-06-02, 20:31

So, where is Polish? Or Irish? Or Taiwanese? Or Japanese?!

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-06-07, 6:40

The same place as Persian, Hebrew, Sumerian, and Romani: they're all study groups.

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-08-05, 8:38

I finished going through Russian in my TAC and have moved on to Turkish.

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby księżycowy » 2019-08-05, 16:01

So, study groups aren't good enough to be on your TAC?

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby Antea » 2019-08-05, 16:03

You have finished Russian very fast...

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-08-08, 0:36

księżycowy wrote:So, study groups aren't good enough to be on your TAC?

No. Those are just me either trying to help other people learn languages or just learning Persian from eskandar while he's still around. :P
Antea wrote:You have finished Russian very fast...

Not really, I sat on Russian for over two months because of all these study groups. Then księżycowy got busy with other shit, so I thought, "Oh, great, now I can actually go back to my TAC and finally get Russian out of the way!" :lol:

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-08-11, 3:38

I was going to try giving a detailed self-evaluation of what I've learned in each of my languages, including English, based on what I've basically used this forum to help document, but then I decided it was taking way too goddamn long. :P This is what I wrote so far, though:

English: The closest thing I have to a native language, but also a language in which I am really ignorant about dialect variation especially within North America (I'm starting to think maybe I'm so used to dialect variation in North America that I don't even notice the variation). Both my vocabulary level and the amount of literature I've read are pretty underwhelming for a native speaker with a master's. I know very little medical terminology, for example, and out of this list, the one word I know the best is taro because I like eating it as I do on occasion; I can just barely define underling (someone who's "under" you, who you have authority over?); I never recognize kayo because I spell it KO; I don't know what ecumenopolis, reeve, or reamer means; and I've seen the rest before but can't define any of them accurately. Mainstream American culture continues to baffle me, and I'm pretty sure my grasp of American pop culture is worse than that of most educated foreigners. None of this has changed much.

Malayalam: My heritage language, which I still speak with my parents except when my sister-in-law and/or niece is around since they don't speak it. Unfortunately, at my last job, no one spoke it, so for over nine hours a day, five days a week, I didn't have anyone to use it with. This definitely took a toll on my Malayalam. I've been trying to fix that now that I'm unemployed by reading short stories or samples of novels, usually a few hours after I wake up. I also occasionally try to review/rehearse Mayoora Sandesham but haven't gotten far. There's no way I'm at a near-native level in this language. I've gone back to stumbling over my words and having to correct the grammar errors I make when speaking. :? I haven't noticed myself making such errors much otherwise, but I'm afraid that's less indicative of how well I know the language and more indicative of how little I use it. Maybe I should try harder to practice it. I think I've forgotten almost all the new vocabulary I learned from both the poem I've been trying to memorize and my grandfather's diary. I've been trying to get up earlier, so my dad doesn't leave sticky notes in Malayalam explaining where he is anymore. He still quizzes me on words he thinks I may not know, and I'm feeling my ability to say "yeah, of course I know that word!" slipping away. Apart from catching bits of dialogue or song lines from movies my mom watches every now and then while I'm having dinner, I have no exposure to Malayalam media. I've barely even been listening to old movie songs!

Mandarin Chinese: A language that I've been using much more lately than Malayalam, yet also a language that I'm not all that good at. I think I know it well enough to at least venture a guess as to how to read characters I don't already know, and usually, my guess is reasonable, though also wrong. I think I've forgotten most of the vocabulary words I've listed out in this language much like I did with Malayalam. I really need to review my more advanced books for Mandarin. My listening comprehension is terrible. My reading comprehension has always been better, but I've translated shit from Mandarin into English a number of times before, both at and outside work, and it's rarely easy since it's full of specialized vocabulary (and, in some cases, probably also jargon). I can write reasonably grammatical sentences in this language, though I maintain that Chinese people IRL disagree a lot on what is or isn't grammatical to a point that is nowhere close to having been documented. (Much of what Basic Chinese teaches contrasts with what Chinese teachers have taught me, which in turn often seems to be pretty much the opposite of the rules educated people (and just ordinary people?) in Beijing follow when they talk).

French: A language I had to use a lot at work and again when applying for a job once but otherwise haven't used much. French seems to be a lot easier for me to handle than either Malayalam or Mandarin Chinese. That being said, I make grammar mistakes in it easily if I'm not being careful to avoid them when writing. Aside from my last job, I very, very rarely have any opportunities to speak it. My pronunciation is intelligible (except to those weirdos back in 2009 when I had to TA for the first time :?); I am positive some French people at least can tell that I'm not a native speaker based on my pronunciation alone, although I think there may also be some who can't? My vocabulary doesn't seem to be that bad, although it's not like it's as good as my English vocabulary or anything, either.

German: Better than Mandarin Chinese but either as good as or slightly worse than French. My vocabulary in this language sucks.

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby księżycowy » 2019-08-11, 11:22

Geez, Vijay. Way to give yourself the shaft. Is there nothing positive to say about any of these language?

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Re: TAC 2019 - Vijay

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-08-16, 17:04

I don't think I'm being negative per se, just honest. I'm including both pros and cons. I know some words in English; I don't know some others. It's practically my native language (that's a good thing in many ways...), but there are lots of things I don't know in it. I speak Malayalam well but not at a near-native level. Etc.


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