Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby md0 » 2019-04-29, 15:19

I've heard Cyprian a lot, and occasionally also Cyprusian (I don't know if it was a mistake due to unfamiliarity, or if it was a snide reference to the Russia-Cyprus connection. If it's the latter, well played!).

Now, to highlight how arbitrary these things are, the preferred term in Cypriot Greek is Kipréos (Kíprios in Standard Greek), which even if it is not exactly Cyprian, it is morphologically closer to it than anything else. Kipriótis sounds extremely archaic (fallen out of use in the 17th century it looks like), and it comes across as dismissive and patronising when it's used by Greece's media in some very rare occasions.
Last edited by md0 on 2019-04-29, 16:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby linguoboy » 2019-04-29, 15:39

md0 wrote:Now, to highlight how arbitrary these things are, the preferred term in Cypriot Greek is Kipréos (Kíprios in Standard Greek), which if is not exactly Cyprian, but it is morphologically closer to it than anything else.

Yeah, as a rule, that's how we anglicise gentilics of this form:

Αθηναίος > Athenian
Ρόδιος > Rhodian
Ιόνιος > Ionian
etc.

There are a fair number of formations with -iot as well, but apart from Cypriot they're all rather obscure. Moreover, it's been overgeneralised in English, e.g. Maniot = μανιάτικος.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby Car » 2019-04-30, 9:03

md0 wrote:(de) Zyprer [Cyprian]

It's in the title of a photo exhibition opening soon at the local Goethe-Institut. In class, we were taught the nationality is Zypriot. It seems like Zyprer is the term in official use. I can say that at least most Greek-Cypriots hate being referred with the non -iot term, eg Cyprian in English.

My initial response was that Zypriot sounds older, with Zyprer coming into use much later. Looking it up in Wikipedia, it says this:
Die Bezeichnungen „Zypriot“, „Zypriotin“, „zypriotisch“ gelten im diplomatischen Verkehr als veraltet. Das deutsche Auswärtige Amt und das österreichische Bundesministerium für Europa, Integration und Äußeres benutzen ausschließlich die Begriffe „Zyprer“ und „zyprisch“.[1][2]

Gelegentlich wurden früher die Zyperngriechen als „Zyprioten“ bezeichnet, die Zyperntürken hingegen als „Zyprer“; heute ist generell die Bezeichnung „Zyprer“ für beide Volksgruppen üblich. Gleichwohl definiert der Duden (25. Auflage, 2010) „Zypriot“ als „Zyperngrieche“, „Zyprer“ hingegen als „Bewohner von Zypern“.


So the denominations "Zypriot", "Zypriotin", "zypriotisch" are considered obsolete in diplomatic circles. Both Germany and Austria only use "Zyprer" and "zyprisch".
In the past, Greek Cypriots (lit. "Cyprus Greeks") were occasionally called "Zyprioten", Turkish Cypriots "Zyprer", but today, it usually refers to both groups. They mention that the Duden edition from 2010 still defines "Zypriot" as "Cyprus Greek" and "Zyprer" as "inhabitant of Cyprus", but that's not the case for its online edition.

So I guess my feeling wasn't wrong after all, but the second part was news to me.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby md0 » 2019-04-30, 11:35

That's very interesting, Car!
I don't know any Cypriots that are fluent in German so that I can find out what their stance towards the two terms is. Obviously it doesn't have to be the same as their stance towards the English pair of terms.

I can sort of see why Zyprioten might end up meaning "Greek Cypriot", since many people spontaneously use the equivalent of 'Cypriot' when they mean 'Greek Cypriot'. It's also very common to call our variety of Greek simply "Kipriaká" (and Turkish Cypriots do the same for their variety of Turkish, "Kıbrıslıca"). We are definitely sending mixed signals to visitors.

Now I wonder if Nordzyprer and Südzyprer are used in any way. Those are not at all used in Greek or Turkish (it's always ethnicity, not geography), and I have never encountered them in English either.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby linguoboy » 2019-04-30, 14:43

md0 wrote:Now I wonder if Nordzyprer and Südzyprer are used in any way. Those are not at all used in Greek or Turkish (it's always ethnicity, not geography), and I have never encountered them in English either.

As far as I can tell, those terms aren't ever used in English, but I found several examples of "Nordzyprer" in news articles. A sampling:

Proteste: 10 000 Nordzyprer fordern Einigung mit Griechenland (Tagesspiegel)

Nordzypern schaut auf den Süden (Tagesspiegel)

"Mit der Wahl ihres EU-freundlichen Regierungschefs Mehmet Ali Talat zum neuen Präsidenten haben die Nordzyprer am Sonntag die Weichen in Richtung Wiedervereinigung gestellt." (FAZ)

"Bei einem Gespräch in Nikosia einigten sich der Präsident der Republik Zypern, Dimitris Christofias, und der Anführer der Nordzyprer, Mehmet Ali Talat, in den zentralen Fragen der Staatsbürgerschaft und der Souveränität des Landes." (Der Standard)

The results for "Südzyprer" are similar, with examples from Tagesspiegel, Die Zeit, Der Standard, et al.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby OldBoring » 2019-04-30, 16:38

Few people know about Cyprus, let alone North and South Cyprus, Greek and Turkish Cypriots.
It's just a tiny island between Greece and Turkey that nobody cares about anyway.

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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby md0 » 2019-04-30, 16:46

It's just a tiny island between Greece and Turkey

:hmm: It's nowhere near Greece to be fair. If anything, it's between Turkey and Egypt.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby Car » 2019-05-01, 9:52

md0 wrote:That's very interesting, Car!
I don't know any Cypriots that are fluent in German so that I can find out what their stance towards the two terms is. Obviously it doesn't have to be the same as their stance towards the English pair of terms.

Now I wonder if Nordzyprer and Südzyprer are used in any way. Those are not at all used in Greek or Turkish (it's always ethnicity, not geography), and I have never encountered them in English either.


Zwiebelfisch sees it as part of a general trend of regularisation where forms ending in -er are preferred over more irregular forms, also because some of those older forms were associated with colonialism and sometimes had negative connotations (although that never was the case for Zypriot).

Over at zypern-forum.de, they still prefer Zypriot, but the sample in that thread is very limited.

Even without linguoboys sources, I would have said yes, but I think I've seen griechische/ türkische Zyprer/ Zyprioten more often. But Nordzypern or Südzypern definitely are used a lot more than Nordzyprer or Südzyprer.

Few people know about Cyprus? Only if they've forgotten about the euro bailout debate again. There are plenty of sources from that time when searching for terms related to it.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby OldBoring » 2019-05-01, 9:56

md0 wrote:
It's just a tiny island between Greece and Turkey

:hmm: It's nowhere near Greece to be fair. If anything, it's between Turkey and Egypt.

See? I confused it with Crete...

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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby md0 » 2019-05-01, 10:17

Car wrote:
md0 wrote:That's very interesting, Car!
I don't know any Cypriots that are fluent in German so that I can find out what their stance towards the two terms is. Obviously it doesn't have to be the same as their stance towards the English pair of terms.

Now I wonder if Nordzyprer and Südzyprer are used in any way. Those are not at all used in Greek or Turkish (it's always ethnicity, not geography), and I have never encountered them in English either.


Zwiebelfisch sees it as part of a general trend of regularisation where forms ending in -er are preferred over more irregular forms, also because some of those older forms were associated with colonialism and sometimes had negative connotations (although that never was the case for Zypriot).

Over at zypern-forum.de, they still prefer Zypriot, but the sample in that thread is very limited.

Even without linguoboys sources, I would have said yes, but I think I've seen griechische/ türkische Zyprer/ Zyprioten more often. But Nordzypern or Südzypern definitely are used a lot more than Nordzyprer or Südzyprer.

Few people know about Cyprus? Only if they've forgotten about the euro bailout debate again. There are plenty of sources from that time when searching for terms related to it.


Thanks once more, also for the forum you have linked (I assume it's for DACHers living in Cyprus, but it always help to have reading material on familiar issues).

People not knowing (much about) Cyprus is a factor though, just not as extreme as OB humoursly makes it to be (it's Rhodes you are thinking of OB, Crete is between Greece and Libya!).
Unfamiliarity is the only way I can explain "Cyprusian", and also why Serbocroat speakers I met in Bosnia claimed that they have no idea how to form the demonym of "Kipar". I think it's similar to how people further away from the region would probably come up with the more regular "Azerbaijani" instead of the common "Azeri".
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby Car » 2019-05-01, 11:13

md0 wrote:Thanks once more, also for the forum you have linked (I assume it's for DACHers living in Cyprus, but it always help to have reading material on familiar issues).

People not knowing (much about) Cyprus is a factor though, just not as extreme as OB humoursly makes it to be (it's Rhodes you are thinking of OB, Crete is between Greece and Libya!).
Unfamiliarity is the only way I can explain "Cyprusian", and also why Serbocroat speakers I met in Bosnia claimed that they have no idea how to form the demonym of "Kipar". I think it's similar to how people further away from the region would probably come up with the more regular "Azerbaijani" instead of the common "Azeri".


Yes, it is:
Das Zypern-Forum.de ist ein Treffpunkt und interaktives Forum für Urlauber, Auswanderer und Residenten mit vielen hilfreichen Tipps zur Götterinsel Zypern. Wenn Sie gerade einen Zypern-Urlaub planen oder nach Zypern auswandern möchten oder hierzu hilfreiche Tipps geben können, dann sind Sie hier genau richtig. Außerdem bietet das Forum einen Kleinanzeigen- und Stellenanzeigenmarkt für Zypern.


The Zypern-forum.de is a meeting point and interactive forum for tourists, emigrants and residents with many helpful tips about the God island Cyprus. If you're planning a holiday on Cyprus or want to emigrate there or can give helpful tips about it, this is the right place. The forum also offers a classified ads and job ads market for Cyprus.

Sure, but the euro bailout crisis did help in that respect. There are plenty of articles from that time that explain basic stuff about Cyprus and it was all over the news.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby mōdgethanc » 2019-05-01, 13:48

I would never call a person from Cyprus a Cyprian, only a Cypriot. "Cyprian" sounds old-fashioned to me and more like a term used to describe an artwork or something.

There's also the bishop and writer Cyprian who might come to mind.
Aleksey wrote:Not "кацап" but "москаль" was the right name for Russian. Of course both of this words have enough negative sense like "nigga" or "niger" ( excuse me ).
"Nigga" is not always negative in English when used by black people to refer to themselves. "Nigger" always is though.
But I need notice "кацап" was used by cossacs for settled ukranians.
And if it is interesting for somebody : "гуцул" was used for man from Moldavia.
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That's interesting because Hutsul is also the name of an ethnic group from Ukraine. I don't think there is any link to Moldova.

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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby Dormouse559 » 2019-05-01, 16:02

(fr) polyvalent adj - multipurpose, versatile, multiskilled

I saw this word on the Wikipédia page for Guy Martin, who does a lot of things apparently.

Wikipédia wrote:Guy Martin […] est un sportif polyvalent anglais, principalement pilote moto.
Guy Martin is a multiskilled English sportsman, primarily a motorcycle racer.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby Dormouse559 » 2019-05-07, 5:59

(fr)
autonomie nf - battery life
guilluyien adj - Guilluyian; in the style of French geographer Christophe Guilluy

The latter is a nonce derivation I saw in a tweet. It caught my eye because I at first had no clue how to pronounce it, and I'm still pretty fuzzy on pronunciation. My best guess is /gilɥijɛ̃/.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby linguoboy » 2019-05-07, 14:25

Dormouse559 wrote:(fr)guilluyien adj - Guilluyian; in the style of French geographer Christophe Guilluy

The latter is a nonce derivation I saw in a tweet. It caught my eye because I at first had no clue how to pronounce it, and I'm still pretty fuzzy on pronunciation. My best guess is /gilɥijɛ̃/.

Wouldn't Guilluy have l mouillé?
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby Dormouse559 » 2019-05-08, 0:45

linguoboy wrote:Wouldn't Guilluy have l mouillé?

That was what I was thinking at first, but then that gives /gijɥi/, and I've never heard /jɥ/ before. Hence my having no clue how to pronounce it.

Just now I tried to do the sensible thing and find videos where people pronounce his name. Having done so, I think even some French people don't know what to make of it. One video had /gɥili/; another had /gylɥi/ :shock:

But three videos agreed on my pronunciation /gilɥi/ (1, 2, 3, all within the first 20 seconds). And I've yet to hear an l mouillé, even in the more left-field pronunciations.
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby Massimiliano B » 2019-05-10, 20:59

(en) Ebb The movement of the tide out to sea; move away from the land; recede.

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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby linguoboy » 2019-05-10, 21:45

(tr) mantar mushroom
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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby Vlürch » 2019-05-11, 8:46

Tajik (tg) ишқ - love
Turkmen (tk) yşk - love
Of course, I already knew Turkish (tr) aşk and Azeri (az) eşq and knew that they came from Persian (and ultimately Arabic), but I randomly came across the etymology of Ashgabat again and checked on Wiktionary what the exact vowel in Persian is (which I'd probably done more than once already but forgotten), and it had a link to the Tajik word (although the entry doesn't exist) and then checked to see if "love" in Turkmen is *aşk like I assumed it would be based on the name of their capital city, but nope, the vowel is raised like in Tajik, but also backed! :o

Naturally, I then googled Ишқобод to see if it's used in Tajik as an alternative form, and it is. Remembering the claims that Tajik and Uzbek are sometimes mixed, I had to google Ишқободдан, Ишқободга and Ишқободнинг, and was kind of surprised that there are a few results showing that it is called that even in Uzbek sometimes. :shock: (There are also two results for Yşkabat, although they're not actual usage.)

EDIT: I... I just had to google variations of the city's name with only <о> because you know why, and turns out there are results for both Ошхобод (and Ошхободда and Ошхободнинг) and Ошғобод (but no hits with the couple of suffixes I tried), confirming the meme that all vowels in Uzbek are /o/. :yep: I mean, it already is Ashxobod/Ашхобод to begin with, but making the first vowel an /o/ too is funnier.

Also a couple of Japanese words I've learned recently:
Japanese (ja) 歯磨き粉 (hamigakiko) - toothpaste
Japanese (ja) 身嗜み (midashinami) - attentiveness to one's personal appearance
Japanese (ja) 絞首台 (kōshudai) - gallows

OldBoring wrote:See? I confused it with Crete...

You're probably joking, but before I got interested in geography, I actually used to think both that Cyprus was a part of Greece and that Crete was Cyprus. On the other hand, I used to think that the actual island of Cyprus was Rhodos, which I thought was independent... so, basically, I assumed correctly that the island near Turkey was independent, but I thought that was where my grandparents had gone on a holiday rather than Rhodos, since I always knew they'd been to Rhodos. :lol:

After learning that the island near Turkey was Cyprus and learning that Rhodos is a part of Greece, for a long time I thought Cyprus was a part of Greece because it was Cyprus... so, yeah, I really sucked at geography and stuff. :oops:

But nowadays I remember all the countries of Eurasia and where they are, including the general location of capital cities, but honestly still keep mixing up all the smaller countries of Central America and West Africa... and sometimes it takes a minute before I realise that Puerto Rico isn't Costa Rica or vice versa. And Guyana and Guinea... :para:

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Re: Last word in a foreign language that you learnt

Postby JackFrost » 2019-05-11, 17:05

(fr) rate (f) /rat/
(en) spleen
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