Tibetic Study Group

[księżycowy]

ཕེབས་པར་དགའ་བསུ་ཞུ།
བྱྫོན་པ་ལེགས་སྫོ།

So, this is another one of these infamous study groups!

This time it's for Tibetan (Lhasa dialect), and if we persist, Amdo dialect and Dzongkha!

For now me and Vijay are going through the textbook Fluent Tibetan, and depending on how things go, we might go through Manual of Standard Tibetan after. As this isn't as serious as some of the other groups I'm involved in, there will be no check-ins. (Though I do intend to actually learn Tibetan, it's just it will be a slow pace, and at times may be put on pause so I can work on my main language focuses.)

Regarding shared materials for the group:
I take copyright laws serious, and will not have myself or this forum dragged into legal troubles over materials. That being said - I am willing to distribute materials not freely and legally accessible to members of the forum in good standing and who do not have the means to purchase said materials themselves (for whatever reason). I am only doing this for the purposes of a group study of the language, and so that all members of the group have the materials being used. Please do not distribute these materials outside of the group or it may ruin the fun for everyone else. If you wish to get a copy of these scans please PM me and we can discuss it. Access to these materials will be taken down immediately upon the request of the author or publisher of the materials or the administrative team of this forum.

Anyone (of any proficiency) is free to join at any time!

Standard Tibetan Group
Resources:
Fluent Tibetan by William Magee, et al.
Other resources: TBA

[księżycowy]

So far I've made it through the first 4 drills in Unit 1, but I've mostly just used it to learn the sounds of the letters, rather then to do the exercises.

I'll try to do the actual exercises this weekend. (Without cheating with the tapescript.)

[księżycowy]

So, I guess I've been having the wrong idea about Tibetan phonology all along but I was under the impression that there was a three way distinction between consonants: voiced, voiceless-aspirated and voiceless-unaspirated.

I thought that, for example:
ཀ was voiced
ཁ was unvoiced-aspirated
and ག was unvoiced-unaspirated

I've been wrong this whole time?

[linguoboy]

So, I guess I've been having the wrong idea about Tibetan phonology all along but I was under the impression that there was a three way distinction between consonants: voiced, voiceless-aspirated and voiceless-unaspirated.

I thought that, for example:
ཀ was voiced
ཁ was unvoiced-aspirated
and ག was unvoiced-unaspirated

I've been wrong this whole time?

It depends which variety you're talking about. Upper-crust Lhasa Tibetan (which is what a lot of descriptions are based on, due to the informants available at the time) has only two series, aspirated and unaspirated.

[księżycowy]

I'm not exactly what variety of Lhasa Tibetan the book is based in. All I know is it's "Central Tibetan". But I'll comb around and see how they describe the sound system.

[linguoboy]

I'm not exactly what variety of Lhasa Tibetan the book is based in. All I know is it's "Central Tibetan". But I'll comb around and see how they describe the sound system.

See the note as the bottom of this page: https://books.google.com/books?id=L09yvr4VgHcC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27.

[księżycowy]

So I reread the beginning of the pronunciation section (Unit 1, in this case), and yeah, you're very right. The book says that it's a contrast between unaspirated and aspirated. Interestingly, there are suppose to be degrees of aspiration too.

[T]he consonant in the first column (ཀ) lacks aspiration, and the consonant in the second column (ཁ) has strong aspiration. [...] Third column consonants (ག) have a moderate amount of aspiration...

(I added the Tibetan characters, for context.)

[vijayjohn]

I think those consonants may be pronounced more or less like that in Kham. I'm pretty interested in Ladakhi and Balti as well, and perhaps also Lahauli and Spiti, but Ladakhi above all.

So what does the text at the top of this thread say?

[księżycowy]

I'm very interested in Sherpa, and even though they are not Tibetic, Newari and Gurung. Maybe I should retitle the study group "Himalayan".

I think those consonants may be pronounced more or less like that in Kham.

Maybe, but this isn't a Kham textbook. Is it...?

So what does the text at the top of this thread say?

"Welcome." First in Tibetan and then again in Dzongkha.

[vijayjohn]

I'm very interested in Sherpa, and even though they are not Tibetic, Newari and Gurung. Maybe I should retitle the study group "Himalayan".

Please don't, let's at least limit this group to Tibetic if not further. I'm interested in Nepal Bhasa/Newa/Newari, too. And of course the rest because I'm me and I'm interested in everything.

Maybe, but this isn't a Kham textbook. Is it...?

No. I was just trying to tell you which Tibetic language variety is the closest to that that I know of.

So what does the text at the top of this thread say?

"Welcome." First in Tibetan and then again in Dzongkha.

Thanks!

[księżycowy]

Please don't, let's at least limit this group to Tibetic if not further.

But what fun is that?

I'm interested in Nepal Bhasa/Newa/Newari, too. And of course the rest because I'm me and I'm interested in everything.

Himalayan study group, here we come!

No. I was just trying to tell you which Tibetic language variety is the closest to that that I know of.

Oh, ok.

[księżycowy]

Unit 1
[I'm self correcting as I go. Or I suppose just pointing out the wrong answers.]

Drill 1

► Show Spoiler

1. ཀ
2. ཁ
3. ཁ
4. ཀ
5. ཁ
6. ཀ
7. ཁ
8. ཀ
9. ཁ
10. ཀ

Drill 2

► Show Spoiler

1. ཁ
2. ག
3. ཁ
4. ག
5. ཁ
6. ཁ
7. ཁ
8. ག
9. ག
10. ཁ

Drill 3

► Show Spoiler

1. ཁ
2. ཀ
3. ག
4. ཁ
5. ཁ
6. ག
7. ག
8. ཀ
9. ག
10. ཁ

Drill 4

► Show Spoiler

1. ཁ
2. ཀ
3. ང
4. ག
5. ཁ
6. ང
7. ཁ
8. ག
9. ག
10. ཀ
11. ང
12. ཀ
13. ཁ
14. ག
15. ང

I definately feel the need to do drills 2 & 3 again.

[księżycowy]

Can I just say that I'm amused that the book specifically tells me to write the Tibetan characters, but doesn't teach me how to write them.

[linguoboy]

Can I just say that I'm amused that the book specifically tells me to write the Tibetan characters, but doesn't teach me how to write them.

I once had a terrible book for learning Tibetan but the one thing it did teach me to do was write the characters correctly!

[księżycowy]

You know I have to ask if you remember the title, right?

[linguoboy]

You know I have to ask if you remember the title, right?

I might even still haven it squirreled away somewhere. I have a bad habit of not divesting myself of language learning materials even once they've been rendered obsolete.

[księżycowy]

If you come across it, or even just rember the title, I'd be interested to know.

[vijayjohn]

I'm not really sure what the point is of posting the answers when they're right underneath the question anyway, but okay...

► Show Spoiler

Drill 1

ཀ་ ཁ་ ཁ་ ཀ་ ཁ་ ཀ་ ཁ་ ཀ་ ཁ་ ཀ་

Drill 2

ག་ ཁ་ ཁ་ ག་ ཁ་ ག་ ཁ་ ག་ ཁ་ ག་

Drill 3

ག་ ཀ་ ག་ ཁ་ ཁ་ ག་ ག་ ཀ་ ག་ ཁ་ ག་

Drill 4

ག་ ཀ་ ང་ ག་ ཁ་ ང་ ཁ་ ག་ ག་ ཀ་ ང་ ཀ་ ཁ་ ག་ ང་

EDIT: Here's a video for learning to write the letters btw, apparently with a translation for what each letter means as a word:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBsiqI9Q7Zg

[księżycowy]

The point for me is to make sure I'm understanding how the script is pronounced, and make sure I can differentiate between similar sounds. You don't have to do it, if you don't want to.

And yes, the answers are right there. But if you had read the introduction, you'd know you're suppose to cover (or otherwise obscure) the answers before doing the drills.

[vijayjohn]

Oh OK.

In any case, I just wanted to also say I'm glad to see some activity in the South Asian and Hindi forums!