Tac 2019 - Ainu

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Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-11, 5:28

Irankarapte!

Onne ku=ne. Poronno ku=pake arka.

Numan, englandi-Itak. Tanto... Zzzzz. Nisatta, Ainu itak!


Hello!

Old I am. Often my head hurts.

Yesterday, England speak. Today... Zzzz. Tomorrow, Ainu speak!

Edit- I realise that I should have said Ku=pake poronno arka as the adverb must go before the verb.
Last edited by Trapy on 2019-01-12, 21:47, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-12, 21:11

Irankarapte!

Tanto mean. Tane, ruyanpe as. Wakka ku=ku.


Hello!

Today is cold. Now, rain falls. Water I drink.
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-13, 1:28

I don't speak Ainu, I'm afraid, but welcome back! :)

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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-14, 3:06

vijayjohn wrote:I don't speak Ainu, I'm afraid, but welcome back! :)


Thanks! I often burn out by February LOL. Till then!


Tanto, Hambaga ku=e

Today, hamburger I eat.
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-14, 7:03

Good luck anyway lol!

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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-14, 23:02

What are you using for Ainu?
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-17, 3:44

dEhiN wrote:What are you using for Ainu?


Mostly the guide that Noir (I think) made. Also, Wiki Travel’s glossary. At this point I am vested enough that I should get a book, but one based on language printed in something I can read (French/Spanish/German or really any Romance language like Romanian or Portuguese) is just about non existant. I should learn Japanese first but.... ehh, doesn’t really interest me. But Ainu I’ve studied off and on as a casual exercise since what... like, 2006 on this board?

Irankarapte!

Oyapa, Japan ku=nukar nankor. Ainu itak ku=itak rusuy.

Suy unukaran ro!


Hello!

Next year, Japan I see I suppose. Ainu language i speak want to.

Time meet later!

Edit- rusuy is a marker for “would like”. Probably best if I semi-translated that as “desire” so that it’s not a verb needing an object (intransitive? Been a looong time)

Also nankor = “I suppose” but I think I like “potentially” at this stage.
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-18, 3:20

Irankarapte,

Tanto yupke ne. Nisatta pirka ne nankor.

Suy unukaran ro.


Hello,

Today tough is. Tomorrow good is possibly.

See you later,
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-20, 3:04


Irankarapte!

Tanto pirka ne. Hok ku=ku. Ruyanpe as. Ainu-itak poronno ku=itak rusuy.

Suy unukaran ro!



Hello!

Today good is. Beer I drink. Rain falls. Ainu language much I speak would like.

See you later!

- note: vocabulary is my current limit. I think I have enough of the basics that I need some spicy vocab to stop walls.

Note 2: hard to remember SOV - hok ku=ku instead of i drink beer. So things like “I want to speak more Ainu”- where do I place poronno? Much Ainu- as in quantity of language, I am guessing would be poronno Ainu-itak, and to speak it a lot, as in the action of speaking, poronno ku=itak.

Next up, nouns, verbs and such to describe cats
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-21, 4:26


Irankarapte!

Tane upas as. Tanto henne pirka ne. .... ... Ainu-itak “Cat, Numbers” henne ku=Nukar. Ainu-itak ku=itak rusuy. Nisatta Ainu itak “Cat, Numbers” ku=nukar nankor.

Suy unukaran ro!




Hello!

Today snow falls. Today not good is. ... ... Ainu-language “cat, numbers” I don’t see. Ainu lanfuage I speak would like. Tomorrow Ainu language “Cat, Numbers” I see possibly.

See you later!


Note- the parts after ... ... I know are awkward but it is how I would say it to a speaker. It might be close to correct but I am not confident in the grammar.

I looked in the unilang guide but the word Cat and all numbers besides “a” are absent. So, will have o pull them from wikivoyage and a dictionary.

I found out that the university of Hokkaido has some better materials, but all in Japanese. I am considering, if I get deep enough into this and confident enough in it, writing to them in Ainu for help, to where free online resources may be that they know of. Apparently you have to be reallly dedicated to make a living off a cultural language, so perhaps I can spark their interest. With no Japanese it will be a very strange conversation. Need to learn katakana, but started today with as in ku=.

Edit- upas ru is snow melts. Changed to upas as, snow falls. Currently snowing a bit!
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-21, 15:00

Apparently Ainu is based on base-20 Numbers

http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/ts/language/number/ainu.html

So, 1-10, 1+10, 2+10, 3+10, up to 20, 1+20, 2+ 20, to 30, which is 10+20, 11+20, 12+20... to 40 which is 2 sets 20, then 1+2*20, 2+2*20.. repeat every block of 20.

For today though,

sine, tu, re
One, two, three
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-21, 23:32

If you went to Japan, would you try to find people who spoke Ainu? How would you go about doing that? It's moribund, isn't it?

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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-22, 6:05

vijayjohn wrote:If you went to Japan, would you try to find people who spoke Ainu? How would you go about doing that? It's moribund, isn't it?


Extreeeeemly moribund. 10 native fluent speakers, half of which have university positions. Ainu appears to be treated like “Indian” 100 years ago in the west- between “uncivilized” and to be discouraged to “really just Japanese from the north” to dent their complete identity. For that reason, and a heavy assimilation regime for hundreds of years as second class citizens, it is absolutely moribund.

Would love to go to the museums and “see” artifacts and speak to any geeks like us, but I fully expect today, it’s like the Lakota or Cherokee- very few individuals who can speak the language at all to any level, and a lot “for show” I.e. cuisine, rituals, dance, dress. There are no heavy population centers, and only 60,000 identified as being descended from Ainu due to discrimination.

*note i haven’t much Native American research, this is just based on what I have heard from people who have visited reservations.

What I could try to do is find out who is trying to revitalize the language- in a few shopping areas, words have become chic for boutique apparel store names. Some road signs are in Ainu (for curiosity I am assuming), and in 2002 or somewhat recent times, Japan finally recognized them as an ethnic group indigenous to japan that still exists. So, times are changing.

But back to who- universities I think. Sapporo in the north and the main Hokkaido university each supposedly have 1 basic class which covers culture, that few people attend, and an intermediate language class tha ~5 students a year attend. Far from fluent, but a start.

Beyond being a language isolate, it’s hust very different from the normal drôle I do of romance-Germanic-Slavic with a sprinkle of Asian languages- and it has kept my curiosity.

For today though as I am trying to do 1 blurb a day atleast to myself (but topping it out helps immensely)...

Ine, asikne, iwan

Four, five, six.

I think I gotsine, tu, re down good as they sound a lot like their English counterparts.

Also decided I need to learn please and Thankyou. Have always said with those two words, and hello, and body language, I could get anywhere!

Also, typing out Irankarapte And Suy unukaran ro So many times they’ve stuck well.

No pen pals for me but maybe one day if this hobby sticks well enough I’ll have the courage to try!
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-22, 13:35

Trapy wrote:Would love to go to the museums and “see” artifacts and speak to any geeks like us, but I fully expect today, it’s like the Lakota or Cherokee- very few individuals who can speak the language at all to any level, and a lot “for show” I.e. cuisine, rituals, dance, dress. There are no heavy population centers, and only 60,000 identified as being descended from Ainu due to discrimination.

*note i haven’t much Native American research, this is just based on what I have heard from people who have visited reservations.

I'm glad you qualified that, as Cherokee and Lakota are not that moribund. Both have native speakers that number in the thousands. That's not to say they're not dying, but revival attempts are currently underway.

Anyway, back to Ainu, :)

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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-22, 19:59

Trapy wrote:Note 2: hard to remember SOV - hok ku=ku instead of i drink beer. So things like “I want to speak more Ainu”- where do I place poronno? Much Ainu- as in quantity of language, I am guessing would be poronno Ainu-itak, and to speak it a lot, as in the action of speaking, poronno ku=itak.

I think you'll get used to SOV; I found it hard at first too with Tamil, but now it's second nature to me both in forming sentences and reading/listening to them. If Ainu is anything like Tamil, I would imagine the sentence structure for "I want to speak more Ainu" would be something like Ainu more to-speak I-want. In Tamil you can also use the same word both as an adjective and an adverb. Sometimes you have to add the adjective suffix or the adverb suffix but other times you don't. However, I think in a situation like this sentence, the word much/more would be used as an adverb. But that doesn't mean Ainu is the same though! :D

Trapy wrote:Apparently Ainu is based on base-20 Numbers

http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/ts/language/number/ainu.html

So, 1-10, 1+10, 2+10, 3+10, up to 20, 1+20, 2+ 20, to 30, which is 10+20, 11+20, 12+20... to 40 which is 2 sets 20, then 1+2*20, 2+2*20.. repeat every block of 20.

I don't quite get the base-20. Well, specifically I don't get the second column in that link. What does 2 obj. to 10* obj. mean? It seems to me that 8 and 9 are formed somewhat like 4 or 9 in Latin - 10-2=8, 10-1=9. Then 11 to 17 are 1...7 and 10, while 18 and 19 are 10-2 and 10, and 10-9 and 10, respectively. I'm not sure what base that would be, but it doesn't quite seem base-20 to me.
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-22, 20:26

księżycowy wrote:
Trapy wrote:Would love to go to the museums and “see” artifacts and speak to any geeks like us, but I fully expect today, it’s like the Lakota or Cherokee- very few individuals who can speak the language at all to any level, and a lot “for show” I.e. cuisine, rituals, dance, dress. There are no heavy population centers, and only 60,000 identified as being descended from Ainu due to discrimination.

*note i haven’t much Native American research, this is just based on what I have heard from people who have visited reservations.

I'm glad you qualified that, as Cherokee and Lakota are not that moribund. Both have native speakers that number in the thousands. That's not to say they're not dying, but revival attempts are currently underway.

Anyway, back to Ainu, :)


Yup, I knew they had thousands, and I called out those two as they are the biggest. I once went looking for resources on Natchez as I have some connection to it (geographically, not biologically), and was sad when almost nothing came up :(
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-22, 20:31

@Dehin I think you are right about how it is similar to Tamil in that way! Still a curve to get used to but thanks!

By base 20 I mean, instead of our numbers which is base 10... it’s lind of like the Gaullic prim and proper of French- so to say 55, it’s 15 plus two*20. 77 would be 17 plus 3 set 20, etc. Looking for more resources on it.

Did come across this for more vocab will read tonight. Some of the romaji is different (sita vs seta for dog) but more resources the better for now.
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-22, 20:44

Trapy wrote:Did come across this for more vocab will read tonight. Some of the romaji is different (sita vs seta for dog) but more resources the better for now.

Perhaps that's just a romaji thing?
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby Trapy » 2019-01-23, 3:30

dEhiN wrote:
Trapy wrote:Did come across this for more vocab will read tonight. Some of the romaji is different (sita vs seta for dog) but more resources the better for now.

Perhaps that's just a romaji thing?


Maybe, or lack of standardization. But the katakana -> romanji should be the same. Either way, via context I should hit the mark for now until I get more content.

Kunai, ku=kor tre meko

I, my three cats (literally)

I am not satisfied with this for the verb “I have” and I think I am getting ahead of myself. Possessive =/= to possess.

Will work on this through the week.

I’ll satisfy myself with ko for today as ku=pake arka (my head hurts- I am tired). It’s apparenty insanely difficult to get just R on mobile with my iPhone IME so I will parctise and try to figure that out as well.
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Re: Tac 2019 - Ainu

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-23, 9:25

Trapy wrote:
Yup, I knew they had thousands, and I called out those two as they are the biggest. I once went looking for resources on Natchez as I have some connection to it (geographically, not biologically), and was sad when almost nothing came up :(

You'll have to forgive my confusion then, as you originally said "very few individuals who can speak the language at all " and compared it to Ainu, which to me implied a similar number of native speakers (practically none).


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