TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-06, 3:31

voron wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I actually am fine either way, but I consciously try to prioritize the study groups over self-study in order to help keep my study buddies motivated. :)

Thanks! Only a few of them are still active, aren't they?

Only a few of them are ever active at any given time. That's the method to my madness. ;)

Except that now, there is actually way more activity in all of them combined than ever, and that too at exactly the busiest time of the year for me, so now that method to my madness is collapsing hard. :lol:
I can see ksiezycowy post updates in the German and Polish groups regularly, then there are our Kurmanji and Arabic groups, also there are occasional posts in the Old English, Sumerian and Hebrew groups... anything else?

The Tamil, French, and Spanish groups were pretty active (we did something in each group almost every week) until dEhiN decided to take a break from studying and then I bombarded him with a Tamil text in the BTG game. :P The Urdu group was also pretty active. And of course there's also the Turkish king-size translation thread, which I'm using as a sort of compensation for the inactivity of the Turkish study group!
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2019-01-06, 19:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-06, 7:51

voron wrote:I finished the book Kagıthane Faciası. Haven't yet chosen what to read next: it's going to be either a collection of stories of a famous early 20th century writer, or a Yaşar Kemal novel.

Cool! Who's the early 20th century writer?
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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby voron » 2019-01-06, 21:24

eskandar wrote:Cool! Who's the early 20th century writer?

I haven't chosen yet; it's just that I like collections of stories better than novels, and I seem to like the early 20th writers the best -- I read collections of stories by Ömer Seyfettin and Sabahattin Ali and I totally loved them, so I thought about choosing something of the same format and time period.

I tried a few modern writers, including Orhan Pamuk, but I didn't like much either the plots or the writing style.

You know guys, we can probably translate an Ömer Seyfettin story in our king-size translations thread. One of my favourite stories was "Diyet" (and no, the plot is not about a diet; it's an Ottoman word which means money a criminal has to pay so that he avoids his punishment -- which can be as bad as cutting one's hand or leg, according to the Islamic law). Would anyone be up to it?

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-06, 21:37

Sure, I guess I could try switching over to Diyet by Ömer Seyfettin, although I'd also like to try to prevent you from having to triple-post in the King-Size Translations thread. :silly: The first story ever translated there was another Ömer Seyfettin story anyway.

I have a book in Turkish called Kızlarıma Mektuplar by Professor Emre Kongar. I'd love to be able to decipher it, but I'm not aware of any online versions being available. I think you'd hate it anyway. :P

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-06, 21:51

I doubt I'd be able to help but I'd follow along with interest if you guys translated an Ömer Seyfettin story.
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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby voron » 2019-01-06, 21:54

vijayjohn wrote:The first story ever translated there was another Ömer Seyfettin story anyway.

Ah right, now I remembered it -- we translated "Perili köşk". Then let's do a different writer: I'd like the translators to taste different styles and epochs. I suggest a story by Yaşar Kemal, I find him very good. I'll pick one and let's get the ball rolling. "Kalemler" is interesting and not particularly difficult, maybe we can try it.
A teaser: here's Yaşar Kemal listening to a song in Kurdish, translating it and saying a few words in Kurdish, with Turkish subtitles.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kReMhZAZ_7A

I have a book in Turkish called Kızlarıma Mektuplar by Professor Emre Kongar. I'd love to be able to decipher it, but I'm not aware of any online versions being available. I think you'd hate it anyway. :P

Why do you think I'd hate it? I just read about it, it seems good. Although, I'd rather like to pick a short story so that we translate it completely, instead of doing just a chapter or two.

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-06, 22:13

voron wrote:Why do you think I'd hate it?

Because if you don't even like Orhan Pamuk much and prefer earlier writers, I figure this is even worse!

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby voron » 2019-01-13, 19:25

I am going to Russia next week for work, and then I am moving back to Turkey, and this time a different place in Turkey. Besides work I'll be busy with looking for a flat and then dealing with all the paperwork, so I'll hardly have time for languages. I will only participate in our Kurdish and Arabic groups, and I won't have time for doing translations in the King Size translations thread. Sorry Vijay... you can switch back to Gayet Ciddiyim if you like.

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-13, 19:43

No worries! I might do that then. :)

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby voron » 2019-01-14, 16:51

Yesterday I watched one episode of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovGODTXWUwY

It's a very typical Turkish soap opera, where a sultan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_II) falls in love with a Russian girl, whom he hired to teach his children French etc etc. I watched it because the main heroine is played by a Russian actress who learnt (somewhat Ottoman-ish) Turkish just for this role, so I was curious about how good her accent is (it's not bad!). And besides, she speaks French in the film, too!

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-22, 1:02

One week late, but that sounds pretty interesting, voron! (I took a look closer to the time you actually posted :P). Teşekkürler!

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby voron » 2019-01-25, 5:46

Two things happened lately between me and Arabic.

When waiting for my flight to Istanbul, I met a few guys from Beirut, and I was able to talk to them quite easily in the Damascene dialect. And they were impressed with my Arabic (which I realize had a lot of flattering in it, but being flattered once in a while is good as well). I dared to start a conversation with them because they were sitting and chatting next to me, and I found them easy to understand.

On the other hand, when I arrived to Istanbul, I had a chance to eavesdrop to many conversations between Syrians, and I just couldn't understand any freaking thing. I suspect this is because they are mostly from Aleppo and speak a different dialect, but whatever the reason is, this is so frustrating. It seems like I have to specifically target this dialect (by trying to find resources for it, or taking lessons from a native speaker) if I want to have any progress with it.

Which I don't have time for now. And with this in mind, I decided to stop any activities for Arabic altogether until July this year. Sorry Vijay and Eskandar, I will drop from the Arabic study group and won't finish the reader.

I will concentrate on Kurdish and Turkish instead. My experience with Kurdish is less frustrating and I am able to understand Kurmanji speakers from different regions of Turkey.

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-25, 13:25

I remember you complaining of not being able to understand spoken Kurdish before. How did you (partially?) resolve that problem? Is it possible that you could do something similar for Arabic? Do you really feel you need to abandon Arabic for at least a few months in order to deal with this difficulty?

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby Antea » 2019-01-25, 16:43

Learning Arabic is understanding that in fact you are aiming at learning and understanding at the same time, and in comparison with Romance languages, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Catalan, French and all the Romance languages, with all the different regional, accents and dialectal varieties. It’s obviously very difficult. They say it’s just one language, but :nope:

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby voron » 2019-01-25, 20:39

vijayjohn wrote:I remember you complaining of not being able to understand spoken Kurdish before. How did you (partially?) resolve that problem?

I have access to native speakers, some of whom are my close friends so I can hear them speak natural Kurmanji and ask questions.

Is it possible that you could do something similar for Arabic?

No. :doggy: I have just one good Syrian friend and I can't see him often atm.

Do you really feel you need to abandon Arabic for at least a few months in order to deal with this difficulty?

I want to temporarily abandon Arabic because I feel frustrated and angry about it. :evil:

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-27, 3:20

I can kind of relate to feeling frustrated with or about Arabic. Like Antea says, Arabic is hard!

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-27, 3:56

voron wrote:I want to temporarily abandon Arabic because I feel frustrated and angry about it. :evil:

It's interesting that Aleppine Arabic is so significantly different. I wonder how contiguous it is with the Arabic dialect(s) spoken in southern Turkey. Probably the best way to get over your frustration would be to learn the Aleppo dialect :) I looked on italki and found 3 language teachers from Aleppo, including one who lives in Turkey and one who also speaks Russian. Anyway, if you abandon Arabic for half the year, we'll miss you in the Arabic forum!

P.S. There seems to be some information on the Aleppo dialect in A Reference Grammar of Syrian Arabic.
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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-27, 7:11

Yeah, I've never heard that variety spoken before, but I have had at least one person on Reddit talk (or maybe I should say "write" :P) to me in it. I also feel it's very different from the varieties of Levantine Arabic that are spoken closer to the Mediterranean coastline.

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby voron » 2019-01-29, 8:55

I won't drop Arabic after all. And I am going to use Vijay's method and rotate languages in a certain order. I will use the alphabetical order:
Arabic
Kurdish
Turkish

And I will try to use songs again. I haven't been doing any songs for quite a while.

EDIT: I've thought of another thing. What if I not only rotate languages, but methods as well? This way I will never have to decide how exactly to study right now, and I won't be bored with repeating the same method.

There are 3 methods that I constantly use:
Reading (anything - from a textbook to a reader to an article to a novel)
Songs
Videos

I may add a fourth one -- studying with a tutor -- but it's not always easy to plan.

So the rotating schedule will look like this:
Arabic reading
Kurdish songs
Turkish videos
Arabic songs
Kurdish videos
Turkish reading
Arabic videos
Kurdish reading
Turkish songs

Looks fun!

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Re: TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-29, 23:10

Yay Arabic! :partyhat:
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