FUBAR Game 2018

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby kevin » 2019-01-08, 19:18

dEhiN wrote:Yeah, I know....I actually changed Lion to Lioness so I could use some feminine pronouns. I also added the titles to each character, whereas the original I found online just had Fox, Ass, and Lion. I know that Car's translation keeps the titles. At what point do the titles get lost, in the Indonesian or Polish?

They seem to still be there in Polish, so I'd say Old English lost them.

I also wonder what would've happened if we had been able to use the Seneca instead of the Polish? Would that have introduced more differences in the final translation?

I think in some sentences Ser was just good at guessing what the original story was like rather than translating what we actually had. That made probably more of a difference than adding another language. ;)

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-08, 19:27

I beg to differ! They may have been in the wrong case, but I maintained the genders! There were only about 2 or 3 feminine pronouns in the Polish.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-08, 21:58

księżycowy wrote:I beg to differ! They may have been in the wrong case, but I maintained the genders! There were only about 2 or 3 feminine pronouns in the Polish.

Not the genders; I was asking about maintaining the names of the animals as proper titles, like Mr. Fox, Mr. Ass/Mule and Ms. Lioness. In the Spanish, Car used Sr. and Sra. which are the Spanish equivalents to Mr. and Ms.
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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-08, 22:08

I kept as many names as I had from the Polish, but I couldn't figure out how to make it "Mr" or "Mrs", so I just capitalized them. I thought those were in there because of the Polish anyway. :P

I'm not exactly sure if they had an equivalent of either title back then anyway. Maybe "sir Fox"? "Lady Lioness"? :lol:

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby kevin » 2019-01-08, 22:48

I'm glad that you already dropped them, otherwise I would have had to drop them in Latin. :lol:

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby Ser » 2019-01-09, 0:18

kevin wrote:By the way, can someone who actually knows Latin tell me how "promise not to eat me" would best be translated? I really wanted to use an infinitive construction there, but I couldn't figure out how that works with the negation (if at all). Can I just insert "non" before the infinitive? "promittasne non me edere" or something?

"Promise not to eat me!", as an imperative? Prōmitte mē nōn ēsūrum! (said to a masculine singular listener). Grammatically this would really be prōmitte (tē) mē nōn ēsūrum (esse), but I think the accusative subject and the infinitive esse would be typically omitted.

In the story you could've written Rogāvit eam, "sī mūlum tibi afferam, prōmittisne mē nōn ēsūram?". Or, writing the whole thing as indirect discourse, rogāvit eam utrum, sī ipse mūlum eī afferret, promitteret sē eum nōn ēsūram.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby kevin » 2019-01-09, 8:09

Oh, a future participle. Interesting, but it makes sense in the context. That would be a bit more like "that you won't eat me" rather than "not to eat me" (which doesn't really have a tense), right?

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-10, 19:46

kevin wrote:Oh, a future participle

How would you guys translate a future participle into English? I just finished working on my Tamil to Spanish translation for the BTG game and there's at least one sentence that used the future participle for an auxiliary verb. It got me thinking about how one would express future participles in English?
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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby Ser » 2019-01-10, 21:01

kevin wrote:Oh, a future participle. Interesting, but it makes sense in the context. That would be a bit more like "that you won't eat me" rather than "not to eat me" (which doesn't really have a tense), right?

Yeah.

dEhiN wrote:
kevin wrote:Oh, a future participle

How would you guys translate a future participle into English? I just finished working on my Tamil to Spanish translation for the BTG game and there's at least one sentence that used the future participle for an auxiliary verb. It got me thinking about how one would express future participles in English?

Latin future participles mean something like "about to do sth" or "the one about to do sth", as in the famous phrase ave, imperator, morituri te salutant! 'Hail, Emperor, those about to die salute you!'.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-12, 6:53

kevin wrote:Yeah, though Ser didn't actually translate very literally, but guessed what the original story could have been like.

To be fair, I myself always try to guess at the original in these games; in fact, I kind of assume everyone else is doing that, too. This is why I try to remain as faithful as possible to what I guess the original must have been even if it sounds convoluted in the language I'm writing in (but I still try to avoid grammar mistakes in the process).
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vijayjohn wrote:Thanks! However, the last one is in Seneca, not in Cayuga, because I didn't really have access to a dictionary for Cayuga and you let me switch to Seneca instead.

Fixed.

Thanks!
I intentionally chose what I thought would be a fairly simple text (I think it's an Aesop's Fable) because of the FUBAR possibility. I figured with a translation into an Austronesian, a NAIL (at the time when I chose the text) and two dead languages, the odds for FUBAR were already good without me using a complicated text.

In retrospect, at lesast, I think the dead languages in this case may have been more of a help than a hindrance. We have a relatively high amount of information on both of them, and the fact that they're extinct probably helps avoid certain complications to some extent, like slang and idioms. I'm sure it also helped that no one made any silly blunders with their translations like what happened in the last BTG, though (except me in Seneca and Cayuga, though only out of necessity!). :P
Salajane wrote:I'm sorry. It was because of me. :oops:
I just didn't know how to translate it into Indonesian.

Yeah, as księżycowy said, don't worry about it. I was just asking out of curiosity. Unfortunately I don't know any Indonesian, but hopefully Vijay might have some suggestions on what he might have done as a translation, since he's been learning Indonesian for some time now.

I thought about it a bit, and now I think the best translation would have probably been simply replacing sudah 'already' with tidak 'not', i.e. tidak bisa melarikan diri 'could not escape' instead of sudah bisa melarikan diri 'could already escape'. I find the "was secured" wording in English a bit convoluted by comparison (which of course means that it's likely to disappear very easily in a translation game!).
księżycowy wrote:I kept as many names as I had from the Polish, but I couldn't figure out how to make it "Mr" or "Mrs", so I just capitalized them.

In Indonesian, it was bapak (literally 'father', but this is also how you usually say 'mister' in Indonesian), so IIRC, I tried to translate it as ha'nih in Cayuga at least and that means 'my father' or something. :P Interestingly, for "Ms. Lioness," Salajane chose nyonya, which is usually used for addressing white women AFAIK! (Maybe because of the 'Ms.').
I thought those were in there because of the Polish anyway. :P

Except that they're used exactly as often as Mr. and Ms. in the original (pan is only used twice, and panią, once).
I'm not exactly sure if they had an equivalent of either title back then anyway. Maybe "sir Fox"? "Lady Lioness"? :lol:

Sure, why not? :D
kevin wrote:I'm glad that you already dropped them, otherwise I would have had to drop them in Latin. :lol:

Y'all, come on! Dominus Vulpēs, Dominus Mūlus, Dominula Leana! :silly:

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-12, 15:28

Leana is lioness in Latin?! I think that would make a pretty name!
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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby Ser » 2019-01-12, 22:56

dEhiN wrote:Leana is lioness in Latin?!

No, it's either lea (the word kevin used) or leaena (what vijay likely meant).

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-13, 0:32

Yeah, sorry, typo for leaena. Hard to make sure I typed out all the vowels! :P

Lea, Leana, and Leaena are all used as personal names, though.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby OldBoring » 2019-01-13, 11:53

Aren't mule and ass/donkey different animals?

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-13, 13:26

Yep! In fact, in my Cayuga translation, because I couldn't find the word for 'mule', I tried writing 'donkey horse' or something like that in the hopes that księżycowy would figure out what I meant. :silly:

EDIT: This happened in the Indonesian translation. Bagal means 'mule'; 'donkey' is keledai. (Car correctly translated donkey as burro in Spanish; 'mule' would have been mula AFAICT).

EDIT2: Keledai comes from Tamil!


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