2019 International year of indigenous languages

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IpseDixit

Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-12-31, 18:09

Although, personally I'd be kind of reluctant to use that definition IRL. I know this is pretty much an etymological fallacy but for me "indigenous" simply means that something originated in a certain place. So, for example, in my view English is an indigenous language of England.

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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-12-31, 19:03

IpseDixit wrote:Although, personally I'd be kind of reluctant to use that definition IRL. I know this is pretty much an etymological fallacy but for me "indigenous" simply means that something originated in a certain place. So, for example, in my view English is an indigenous language of England.

I agree with your definition too in certain contexts, but I don't feel like it works for something like the "international year of indigenous languages." If we use "originated in a certain place" as the meaning, literally every natural language and culture on Earth is indigenous somewhere. Everything originates from somewhere, so the word ends up adding no meaning at all. It would be the same meaning as just saying "International Year of Languages," for example. (Not that I'd mind there being a year like that though. But it's not the point of this one, which is to bring attention to languages native to a region that don't normally get as much attention as more dominant national languages.)
IpseDixit wrote:I'm not sure I understand what you mean but the word "indigenous" has nothing to do with the word "Indian". "Indigenous" comes from Latin and it means "generated from within".

And unfortunately I know someone who thought the word "indigenous" was related to the word "indigent" (and yeah, I see how someone could think so given the similarities between the two words), but that too comes from an unrelated etymology (they both share a prefix meaning "in/into" but "indigent" comes from a Latin word meaning "to be in need" whereas "indigenous" comes from a Latin word meaning "to beget" or - as IpseDixit said it - "to generate"). It is the same in Spanish: indígena, indigente and indio look and sound similar, but have unrelated etymologies and meanings.

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Lur
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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby Lur » 2019-01-01, 17:16

voron wrote:I'd say that this term doesn't apply well to Europe.

I think it does, but I'm flexible about it

So there's two things:

a) my general use of the phrase

and

b) the sense that I think the International Year is going for, which refers to the effects of the colonial era in a series of areas.

Fun fact, before that, the most widely spoken family in the world was Austronesian.
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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby Antea » 2019-01-01, 18:05

In the Facebook group someone asked if “Piedmontese”, “Genoese” and “Friuliano” were also considered as “indigenous” languages, and someone answered that for being considered “indigenous” they had to be “endangered” :hmm:

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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby Lur » 2019-01-02, 16:13

What if it's endangered or lost in an area of the territory and not in another? Like Asturian, Basque or Aragonese, or even Galician
Geurea dena lapurtzen uzteagatik, geure izaerari uko egiteagatik.

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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-01-02, 17:46

Antea wrote:In the Facebook group someone asked if “Piedmontese”, “Genoese” and “Friuliano” were also considered as “indigenous” languages, and someone answered that for being considered “indigenous” they had to be “endangered” :hmm:

A language shouldn't have to be "endangered" to be considered "indigenous". Those two words are not synonyms. There could be a Year of Endangered Languages (fantastic idea!) but if that is what is meant then that is what it should be called.

Lur wrote:What if it's endangered or lost in an area of the territory and not in another? Like Asturian, Basque or Aragonese, or even Galician

Since I don't think the language should have to be endangered in the first place to be considered "indigenous," maybe that's my answer to this question. But I want to add that there are also (many!) situations in which a language is native to (indigenous in) one region and not in another, so that's precisely why different regions should include different languages under any of these definitions. It absolutely varies by region, no matter which definition is used.

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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-03, 1:46

I like International Mother Language Day better. :P One day every year instead of just one year!

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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby Lur » 2019-01-03, 15:35

vijayjohn wrote:I like International Mother Language Day better. :P One day every year instead of just one year!

I don't because that day is kinda boring for me :para: I want a Language You Like Week or something.
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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby linguoboy » 2019-01-03, 17:14

Lur wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I like International Mother Language Day better. :P One day every year instead of just one year!

I don't because that day is kinda boring for me :para: I want a Language You Like Week or something.

A bit provincial, but it's something: https://www.coe.int/en/web/language-policy/european-day-of-languages.
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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby Saim » 2019-01-09, 11:53

Antea wrote:In the Facebook group someone asked if “Piedmontese”, “Genoese” and “Friuliano” were also considered as “indigenous” languages, and someone answered that for being considered “indigenous” they had to be “endangered” :hmm:


Generally we wouldn't consider them to be indigenous languages for the purposes Lur mentioned because they're not spoken by indigenous peoples. I don't think it fundamentally matters whether they're endangered or not.

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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby aaakknu » 2019-01-31, 16:54

Is Ambonese Malay indigenous or not?
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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-01, 2:34

I don't think it is. It was brought over by traders from western Indonesia and is the lingua franca of the region today if I understand correctly.

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Re: 2019 International year of indigenous languages

Postby Lur » 2019-02-03, 13:31

How long does something has to be located in a place in order to be indigenous?
Geurea dena lapurtzen uzteagatik, geure izaerari uko egiteagatik.


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