Massimiliano's Powwow 2018 thread - diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and dxʷləšúcid (Lushootseed)

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Massimiliano's Powwow 2018 thread - diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and dxʷləšúcid (Lushootseed)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-10-31, 0:12

This is my thread for the powwow. I started studying the Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) language last year for the powwow and stopped at the end of it. Last month I started studying it again. I'll share my progress here. Probably I'll study some Lushootseed too.
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2018-11-04, 20:15, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13132
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Nitinaht) and others

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-31, 0:28

Oooo, Lushootseed! That's on my wishlist! :P

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24330
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and others

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-10-31, 3:23

You study such interesting languages, Massimiliano! :)

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13132
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and others

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-31, 5:50

Hell yeah he does! :D

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24330
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and others

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-10-31, 5:59

I mean the Wakashan ones. :hmpf:

Jk I mean all of them. :D

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and others

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-10-31, 10:43

Wakashan and Salishan languages are my favourite North American language families :)

For Ditidaht I have An introduction to Nitinaht Language and Culture, by Thom Hess and John Thomas, and this internet site: http://learnditidaht.ca/
For Lushootseed I found this book: Lushootseed reader with introductory grammar, vol. 1., by Thom Hess, and this internet site http://www.puyalluptriballanguage.org/
Both textbooks are by Thom Hess (who died in 2011). I like his way of teaching languages.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and others

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-01, 15:09

The internet site I posted yesterday (http://learnditidaht.ca/) for learning Ditidaht has some instructional YouTube videos, very well-made, which are very helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqPioT ... Q/featured

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and others

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-02, 14:15

The Ditidaht (Diid̓iitidq) language has its page here on Firstvoices:

https://www.firstvoices.com/explore/FV/sections/Data/
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2018-11-02, 15:39, edited 1 time in total.

ceid donn
Posts: 2256
Joined: 2008-02-15, 0:58
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and others

Postby ceid donn » 2018-11-02, 15:15

Thanks for posting resources for Ditidaht. I had wanted to do a language from the Western coast of North America, but I mainly just looked into languages from modern day California and couldn't find one I was interested in and had enough resources which I could access to do any productive studying. But Ditidaht looks very interesting. I can't do it for this Powwow, but maybe later down the line.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and others

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-02, 20:54

I think Ditidaht is very interesting too. North-West Pacific coast languages are the most interesting to me, in terms of phonology and morphology

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - Diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and others

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-03, 0:35

Ditidaht

a = like the a in 'father'.
aa = long a
b = like in English
b̓ = glottalized b
c = like the ts in 'beats'.
c̓ = this is a glottalized c.
č = like the ch in 'chin'.
č̓ = is a glottalized č.
d = like English
d̓ = glottalized d.
e = like the e in 'bed'.
ee = long e
h = like the h in 'house'.
i = like the i in 'big'.
ii = long i.
k = like the k in 'skin'.
k̓ = glottalized k.
kʷ = labialized k.
k̓ʷ = labialized glottalized k.
l = like the l in blade.
l̓ = glottalized l. It's an l preceded by a glottal stop: [ʔl].
ɫ = voiceless alveolar lateral fricative .
ƛ = voiceless alveolar lateral affricate ([tɬ]).
ƛ̓ = glottalized voiceless alveolar lateral affricate.
o = like the o in 'pot'.
oo = long o.
p = like the p in 'stop'.
p̓ = glottalized p.
q = voiceless uvular stop.
q̓ = glottalized q.
qʷ = labialized 'q'.
q̓ʷ = labialized glottalized q.
s = like the s in 'sand'.
š = like the sh 'she'.
t = like the t in 'sport'.
t̓ = glottalized t.
u = like the oo in 'spoon'.
uu = long u.
w = like the w in 'wall'.
w̓= w preceded by a glottal stop [ʔw].
ʷ is a labialization, like English w.
x = voiceless velar fricative.
xʷ = labialized voiceless velar fricative.
x̌ = voiceless uvular fricative /X/.
x̌ʷ = labialized voiceless uvular fricative
y = palatal approximant, like y in 'yes'.
y̓ = a palatal approximant preceded by a glottal stop [ʔj].
ʔ = glottal stop.
ʕ = pharyngealized glottal stop [ʔʕ]).




From An introduction to Nitinaht Language and Culture, by Thom Hess and John Thomas, pages 2-4.


ʔač- = who
ʔux̌ʷ- = to be

ʔačqik. = Who are you?
ʔux̌ʷs John. = I am John.

ʔačqiks. = Who am I?
ʔux̌ʷʔas Bill. = You are Bill.

yaa = that (one)
ʔačqii yaa. = Who is he?
ʔux̌ʷʔa Mike. = He is Mike.

ʔačqii yaa. = Who is she?
ʔux̌ʷʔa Mary. = She is Mary.



Interrogative mood endings (open questions):

-qiks = I
-qik = you
-qii = he/she/it
-qikid = we

These endings are used with inherently interrogative words such as "who, what, where...?".



Affirmative mood:

-s = I
-ʔas = you
-ʔa = he/she/it
-id = we

These endings affirm something about a subject.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow thread - diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and dxʷləšúcid (Lushootseed)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-04, 17:04

Ditidaht (diid̓iitidq)

If I want to know whether you are okay or not, I cannot use the interrogative mood about "open questions". There is indeed a second interrogative mood in Ditidaht: the mood that asks a "yes/no question", which has the following endings:

-qaks (I)
-qak (you)
-qaa (he/she/it)
-qakid (we)

It differs from the "open question" mood only by the presence of "a" after -q-, instead of "i".
If I want to ask "Are you ok?" (čačabax̌ = ok) I just need to say:

čačabax̌ak. = Are you ok?

In Ditidaht the interrogation mark is not used. After x̌, the sound -q- of the ending -qaks, -qak, -qaa is lost. In the answer to the above question we have to use the affirmative mood ending for "I" seen in the previous post, which is -s. So, if I want to say "I am ok" I have to say

čačabax̌s. = I am ok.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow 2018 thread - diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and dxʷləšúcid (Lushootseed)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-11, 23:13

Lushootseed


a = like the a in 'father'.
aa = long a.
b = like in English.
bʼ= glottalized b.
c = like the ts in 'beats'.
c̓ = this is a glottalized c.
č = like the ch in 'chin'.
č̓ = is a glottalized č.
d = like English d.
dᶻ = voiced alveolar affricate [d͡z].
ə = schwa.
g = like English g in "go".
gʷ = labialized g.
h = like the h in 'house'.
i = like the i in 'big'.
ǰ = like English j.
k = like the k in 'skin'.
k̓ = glottalized k.
kʷ = labialized k.
k̓ʷ = labialized glottalized k.
l = like the l in blade.
l̓ = glottalized l. It's an l preceded by a glottal stop: [ʔl].
ɫ = voiceless alveolar lateral fricative.
ƛ̓ = glottalized voiceless alveolar lateral affricate.
o = like the o in 'pot'.
p = like the p in 'stop'.
p̓ = glottalized p.
q = voiceless uvular stop.
q̓ = glottalized q.
qʷ = labialized 'q'.
q̓ʷ = labialized glottalized q.
s = like the s in 'sand'.
š = like the sh 'she'.
t = like the t in 'sport'.
t̓ = glottalized t.
u = like the oo in 'spoon'.
w = it's like the w in 'wall'.
w̓= w preceded by a glottal stop [ʔw].
xʷ = labialized voiceless velar fricative.
x̌ = voiceless uvular fricative /X/.
x̌ʷ = labialized voiceless uvular fricative
y = palatal approximant, like y in 'yes'.
y̓ = it's an palatal approximant preceded by a glottal stop [ʔj].
ʔ = glottal stop.


From Lushootseed reader with introductory grammar - volume I, by Thom Hess.


ʔuʔux̌ʷ ti č̓ač̓as. = The boy went.

ʔuʔux̌ʷtxʷ ti č̓ač̓as. = [Someone] "went" the boy = [Someone] took the boy [somewhere]

ti č̓ač̓as = the boy
ʔuʔux̌ʷ = (he) went
ʔuʔux̌ʷtxʷ = x took (the boy)

ʔuʔəƛ̓ ti č̓ač̓as. = The boy came

ʔuʔəƛ̓txʷ ti č̓ač̓as. = [Someone] "came" the boy = [Someone] brought the boy.


ʔut̓uk̓ʷ ti č̓ač̓as = The boy went home

ʔut̓uk̓ʷtxʷ ti č̓ač̓as = [Someone] "went" the boy home = [Someone] took the boy home
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2018-12-01, 18:39, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow 2018 thread - diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and dxʷləšúcid (Lushootseed)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-19, 11:45

I'm learning Ditidaht here: http://learnditidaht.ca/. This site is very well made. It has videos and, above all, all the words and sentences are pronounced by native speakers. The only problem is that in lesson 2.3 it is not possible to do the exercise. When I write the correct words in the blanks, they don't turn green as normally do when the answer is correct.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow 2018 thread - diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and dxʷləšúcid (Lushootseed)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-22, 10:38

Ditidaht


Interrogative mood endings for yes/no questions:

-qaks (first-person singular)
-qak (second-person singular)
-qaa (third-person singular)
-qakid (first person plural)

When preceded by a consonant that is in the same syllable, the -q- is lost.


Affirmative mood endings:

-s = I
-ʔas = you
-ʔa = he/she/it
-id = we

The glottal stop (ʔ) is lost after fricatives.


ʔuuqubs = pleasant weather.

ʔuuqubsaa = Is it pleasant weather? (-q- is lost)
ʔuuqubsa = It is pleasant weather. (ʔ is lost)

Usually in Ditidaht people don't answer with "yes" or "no", but with the repetition of the whole verb. Questions do not need question mark.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow 2018 thread - diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and dxʷləšúcid (Lushootseed)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-23, 23:07

Ditidaht


ʔukʷaqɫ = to be called

ʔukʷaqɫak John? = (literally: Are you called John?) Is John your name?
ʔukʷaqɫis John = (literally: I am called John) John is my name.

The letter -i- is inserted between the stem and the first personal ending of the declarative mood -s.


The interrogative mood endings for open questions are: -qiks = I, -qik = you, -qii = he/she/it, -qikid = we. When preceded by a consonant that is in the same syllable, the -q- is lost. These endings are used with inherently interrogative words such as "who, what, where...?".

ʔač- means 'who'. Together with kʷaqɫ (which means 'call' or 'name') it forms the root

ačkʷaqɫ

which can be used to ask someone's name, by adding the interrogative mood endings for open questions are: -qiks = I, -qik = you, -qii = he/she/it, -qikid = we.

ačkʷaqɫik = (literally: Who are you called?) What's your name?
ʔukʷaqɫis John = (literally: I am called John) John is my name.

The use of a suffix is obligatory when the information is not new. Otherwise, a root is used. But, since a suffix can't stand alone, it is added to the root ʔu-, which, per se, has no meaning.
This is a very important point. I think this rule applies to any language with lexical suffixes, which can be found throughout the Salishan, Wakashan, and Chimakuan linguistic groups.


The root ʔu-, the suffix -x̌ = being, and the suffix -aʔƛ = now, new (this is an important concept in many languages spoken in British Columbia) form the word ʔux̌ʷaʔƛ, which means "to be now", used as a way of greeting a person:

ʔux̌ʷaʔƛak = Is it you now?
ʔux̌ʷaʔƛs = It is me now.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow 2018 thread - diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and dxʷləšúcid (Lushootseed)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-11-24, 23:17

Ditidaht


Numbers from 1 to 10 are c̓awaaʔk = one; ʔaƛ =two; qakac̓ = three; buu = four; šuč̓ = five; č̓iix̌paaɫ = six; ʔaƛpuu = seven; ʔaƛasib = eight; c̓awaasib = nine; ƛax̌ʷ = ten. They take different suffixes depending on the thing that is counted.

baq- means "what". baqqii means "what is it?" (-qii is the third person singular interrogative mood ending for open questions).

baqqii tii = What is this?
hadɫiy̓k̓a tii = This is an arrow. (hadɫiy̓k = arrow; ʔa = affirmative mood ending for the first person singular)
c̓awaaʔk̓a hadɫiy̓k = It is one arrow /there is one arrow. (c̓awaaʔk means "one"; c̓awaaʔk̓a means "it is one", the ending -ʔa is affirmative mood ending for the first person singular. Voiceless stops or africate absorbs the glottal stop of -ʔa).
The personal mood endings are affixed to the first word in a sentence.

Numbers generally bear a suffix depending on the general object which is counted. For examples, buu (four) becomes buuc̓aq when counting canoes, ships, airplanes; buuyist = four people travelling in a canoe or in any conveyance; buuqis or buuqs = four caught fish or four objects in a canoe; buukʷɫʔiit = four big animals; buuqʷabɫ = four birds or four round objects; buup̓eey̓ɫ = four stick-like objects.
Here are some numbers for counting stick-like objects: c̓awup̓eey̓ɫ = one stick-like object; ʔaƛip̓eey̓ɫ =two stick-like objects; qakac̓ip̓eey̓ɫ = three stick-like objects (see An introduction to Nitinaht Language and Culture, by Thom Hess and John Thomas, page 41).

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1795
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow 2018 thread - diid̓iitidq (Ditidaht) and dxʷləšúcid (Lushootseed)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-12-01, 18:35

Lushootseed


From Lushootseed reader with introductory grammar - volume I, by Thom Hess, lesson two.


ʔuʔux̌ʷ čəd. = I went.

ʔuʔux̌ʷtxʷ čəd ti č̓ač̓as. = (literally: I "went" the boy [somewhere]) = I took the boy [somewhere].

ʔuʔəƛ̓ čəd. = I came.

ʔuʔəƛ̓txʷ čəd ti č̓ač̓as = (literally: I "came" the boy) = I brought the boy.

ʔuʔəƛ̓ čəɫ = We came.

ʔuʔux̌ʷ čəxʷ = You went.

ʔuʔux̌ʷ čəxʷ ʔu = Did you go?

ʔuʔəƛ̓ čələp = You folks came.

ʔuʔux̌ʷtxʷ čələp ʔu ti č̓ač̓as = (literally: Did you folks "go" the boy [somewhere]) = Did you folks take the boy [somewhere]?


Return to “North American Indigenous Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest