If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

langmon
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If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby langmon » 2018-11-10, 5:38

Description of my situation: I am able to speak B2 Spanish, in addition to understanding both of written Spanish and Italian at B2 to C2 level (it depends on the topic of the text).
What can I do to reach the B2 speaking level of Italian, too? Currently it is A1.
And I would like to do what I can for the purpose of not mixing them up, too :).
this is a reboot

IpseDixit

Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-10, 13:26

Practice.

EDIT: I've seen a lot of your threads/posts and you're always asking "how do I deal with xyz", "how to be able to do xyz". And honestly I'm not sure what you expect us to say because the only answer is "study and practice".

langmon
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Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby langmon » 2018-11-10, 13:37

IpseDixit wrote:Practice.

EDIT: I've seen a lot of your threads/posts and you're always asking "how do I deal with xyz", "how to be able to do xyz". And honestly I'm not sure what you expect us to say because the only answer is "study and practice".


Well, you are entirely right about simply practicing being a way that really can lead to major advancements with a certain language :). I fully agree. But on the other hand, I'd also say that there is more to it, too. Are you entirely sure of being study and practice the only answer?

In addition, yes, you are right too about that I opened quite a lot of "how to deal with" threads today. This is because it has been the first time of myself really starting to post in the various subforums (although that doesn't mean that I never made a single post in any of them before). And a certain amount of these questions seems to be very similar. But then, again, I'd say that there is more to it, too. Because those questions also address some unique aspects of the specific languages being mentioned.

As for Italian for example, I also realized that practice really is useful :D. But some people possibly had some experiences with interlinking, for example, Spanish and Italian that are way beyond the general language learning tips and suggestions.

If I was to be asked about how to mentally connect even some rather remote languages like Spanish and Swahili, and how knowing one of them can help learning the others, there actually is something that I would have to say. And I also could be asked about it, yes. But that was for Spanish and Swahili. As for some other languages and specific situations, I don't know the answer, so that's why I asked :).
this is a reboot

IpseDixit

Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-10, 14:07

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote: I fully agree. But on the other hand, I'd also say that there is more to it, too.


Such as?

As for Italian for example, I also realized that practice really is useful :D. But some people possibly had some experiences with interlinking, for example, Spanish and Italian that are way beyond the general language learning tips and suggestions.

If I was to be asked about how to mentally connect even some rather remote languages like Spanish and Swahili, and how knowing one of them can help learning the others, there actually is something that I would have to say. And I also could be asked about it, yes. But that was for Spanish and Swahili. As for some other languages and specific situations, I don't know the answer, so that's why I asked :).


I read this three times and I still have no clue what you're talking about.

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Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby Naava » 2018-11-10, 14:13

IpseDixit wrote:I read this three times and I still have no clue what you're talking about.

I think he means to ask how he could use the linguistic knowledge he's gained from other languages to learn Italian.

langmon
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Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby langmon » 2018-11-10, 14:22

Naava wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:I read this three times and I still have no clue what you're talking about.

I think he means to ask how he could use the linguistic knowledge he's gained from other languages to learn Italian.

Exactly.

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Well, you are entirely right about simply practicing being a way that really can lead to major advancements with a certain language :). I fully agree. But on the other hand, I'd also say that there is more to it, too. Are you entirely sure of being study and practice the only answer?


As for the "I'd also say that there is more to it, too" part which you just asked me about, this has been explained below :) (straightly after the following two quotes).

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:If I was to be asked about how to mentally connect even some rather remote languages like Spanish and Swahili, and how knowing one of them can help learning the others, there actually is something that I would have to say. And I also could be asked about it, yes. But that was for Spanish and Swahili. As for some other languages and specific situations, I don't know the answer, so that's why I asked :).

IpseDixit wrote:I read this three times and I still have no clue what you're talking about.


Well, if that is the case, then I am very happy to be able to tell you that a short time ago, there already was the first practical example that explains it.

In the Czech thread, I only asked whether Czech or Polish would be easier. Then someone replied to that very post, giving me a valuable "puzzle piece" I had being looking for. After having read his reply, I realized that even all of those Slavonic languages with many cases aren't as (relatively) difficult as I have been thinking. Because what he wrote reminded me of the fact that a certain language I learned a long time ago also has got many cases, more than (my native tongue) German. In addition to himself also pointing out that there is a parallel between the grammar of Czech and German, too.

Below there is the link to both of his reply and my follow-up. And in conclusion, that (i.e. the post I linked to below) was a practical example explaining what I meant. I am looking for connections between the languages and that also some shortcuts. Although I am not speaking at all about anything that reduces the learning quality, but it is about useful "tricks" that can help making things easier.

https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=4323&p=1124061#p1124061
Last edited by langmon on 2018-11-10, 14:27, edited 1 time in total.
this is a reboot

IpseDixit

Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-10, 14:27

Weren't you talking about learning to speak Italian?

langmon
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Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby langmon » 2018-11-10, 14:32

IpseDixit wrote:Weren't you talking about learning to speak Italian?


SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Description of my situation: I am able to speak B2 Spanish, in addition to understanding both of written Spanish and Italian at B2 to C2 level (it depends on the topic of the text).
What can I do to reach the B2 speaking level of Italian, too? Currently it is A1.
And I would like to do what I can for the purpose of not mixing them up, too :).


Of course I was talking about speaking Italian. But I do some major mental interlinking, too, between the speaking ability and the others which are reading, writing and listening. Because all of this can support each other.
this is a reboot

IpseDixit

Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-10, 14:34

So what do you want to know exactly?

langmon
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Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby langmon » 2018-11-10, 14:39

IpseDixit wrote:So what do you want to know exactly?

I would be looking for any suggestions on how to use any (not necessarily all) of those to coming closer to Italian, especially about the speaking part:

- My current Spanish speaking ability which is B2

- The knowledge of some Spanish verb conjugations

- The previous (not too big) exposure to this language, this happened a few times in my childhood while I was there (i.e. in Italy)

- My Spanish and French reading ability (B2 to C2, depending on the subject)

- Any not-so-obvious connections between Spanish and Italian grammar, by that, I mean those that one cannot easily realize by himself/herself at first glance when reading about Italian grammar

- The brain's pathways that already have been made when I was learning Latin for a few years, even if it was a long time ago

- Anything else that also can be used as a shortcut while I currently am unaware of it
this is a reboot

IpseDixit

Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-10, 15:07

Oh man, you really need to learn to ask questions...

Italian and Spanish verb conjugations are kind of similar but not quite the same. We also use some tenses in different ways.

The connection between Spanish and Italian grammar is that both languages come from Latin (not sure what else I'm supposed to say here).

My Spanish and French reading ability (B2 to C2, depending on the subject)

Well open up a book or an article written in Italian and see for yourself how much Spanish and French can help.

The brain's pathways that already have been made when I was learning Latin for a few years, even if it was a long time ago


Do you have an MRI of your brain?

Anything else that also can be used as a shortcut while I currently am unaware of it


Knowing another Romance language is already kind of a shortcut.

The previous (not too big) exposure to this language, this happened a few times in my childhood while I was there (i.e. in Italy)


What kind of exposure?

langmon
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Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby langmon » 2018-11-10, 15:23

IpseDixit wrote:Oh man, you really need to learn to ask questions...

While I do not agree to that, you and anyone else with the same perspective on that still could tell me what he/she has on his/her mind, if anyone of you wants to do so:

https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&p=1124086#p1124086

IpseDixit wrote:Italian and Spanish verb conjugations are kind of similar but not quite the same. We also use some tenses in different ways.


Now that "in different ways" part definitely is among the Spanish and Italian Interlinking Puzzle Pieces I am looking for.

IpseDixit wrote:Well open up a book or an article written in Italian and see for yourself how much Spanish and French can help.

Well, this is what I have been doing several times (I also mentioned the previous Latin knowledge). And when doing so, I am able to realize, while being very grateful for it, that the reading ability (of mine) of written Italian is close to the Spanish and French reading ability (i.e. B2 up to C2, depending on the subject and context).

IpseDixit wrote:
The brain's pathways that already have been made when I was learning Latin for a few years, even if it was a long time ago
Do you have an MRI of your brain?

Question: could that particular question of yours also be a bit argue-ish?
Other than that, when someone does something for a long time, like Latin verb and grammar drills, this does make the brain used to what it is being exposed to.

IpseDixit wrote:
The previous (not too big) exposure to this language, this happened a few times in my childhood while I was there (i.e. in Italy)
What kind of exposure?

Basic words and phrases, like panini and some greetings. :) Childhood memories.
this is a reboot

IpseDixit

Re: If one speaks B2 Spanish, how to reach the same Italian level of speaking ability?

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-10, 15:48

Now that "in different ways" part definitely is among the Spanish and Italian Interlinking Puzzle Pieces I am looking for.


Good. Now open up an Italian grammar book and find them out.

Well, this is what I have been doing several times (I also mentioned the previous Latin knowledge). And when doing so, I am able to realize, while being very grateful for it, that the reading ability (of mine) of written Italian is close to the Spanish and French reading ability (i.e. B2 up to C2, depending on the subject and context).


Ok. So what was the question?

Question: could that particular question of yours also be a bit argue-ish?
Other than that, when someone does something for a long time, like Latin verb and grammar drills, this does make the brain used to what it is being exposed to.


I was just pointing out the absurdity of asking about your brain pathways. I mean, if you're curious about language and brain you can study some neurolinguistics manual. But other than that I'm not sure what one is supposed to asnwer to that... maybe it's also because I'm not really sure what you're asking specifically.

Basic words and phrases, like panini and some greetings. :) Childhood memories


And you think that this can help you with learning Italian now as an adult?


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