[Sort of a log] All Things Communication (previously titled: the language called communication)

This is our main forum. Here, anything related to languages and linguistics can be discussed.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 7:56

Communication Language Sub-Topic: The Language of the Heart

What are your thoughts on that one?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 8:11

A culturally relevant but really rare pattern of behavior: Some Africans telling some non-African persons that if they would call them N . . . . . . one day, they wouldn't have the slightest issue with it
Because this pattern is very rare, I didn't even capitalize it.

Also it should be noted that even if one particular African offers that possibility to anyone they have been knowing for a long time, there still are several possible pitfalls. They could forget that they already offered it to them, thus reacting the same way as if they never offered anything like this to them in the first place.

And among the other possible pitfalls is that even if one particular African agrees to it, and even if the other person really would like to do it because of some reasons, it would be something that that specific (non-African) person would only be doing when talking to the (African) person in private. As soon as there is anybody else around too, no matter if he is an African or something else, there easily can be some very severe misunderstandings.

Also it should be noted that even if one of them (i.e. one of the Africans) offered using that N . . . . . word to someone (who is a non-African) he has known for a while, and another African who also is present does know about the offer that has been made, he still can have something against the non-African calling the African who made this offer that way when he (the other African) is present, or even when he is absent.

The question being asked in this post is:

What are the possible detailed reasons for any African making such an offer, keeping in mind that this word usually is connected to many, many unpleasant feelings?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 8:14

Pattern of behavior: Simply Denying When Being Confronted With Something

Why does it happen?

And how to handle cases of others doing it?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 8:27

Pattern of behavior related to the present time: Battle Rap and Diss Tracks

As usual, I am writing about any of those Communication Related Sub Topics because of taking an in-depth look at them, and because of their connection to the language I am currently learning more about, just like a learner of any other language sometimes would do it.

There are some persons who do what is called Battle Rap.
One of them could say something like,
"You are nothing but a north pole refrigerator.
But I am your power source terminator". :roll:

Then another one could answer saying,
"I can freeze you with a really incredible ease.
You should only say two times pretty please." :roll:

Any track containing something like this is called a Diss Track.

- Why (= for what reasons) do they feel themselves wanting to do it, or even needing to do it?

- Why don't they simply ignore any diss track that verbally attacks them instead of answering by insulting back in the form of yet another diss track?

In addition... did you all realize why I sometimes would explain that by asking a "why" question, I mean "for what reasons"? As for me, I of course know why I am doing it. But I am not sure if all of you understand my motivation too, because it isn't a secret at all that "why" means "for what reason/reasons". Any reply about that would be entirely On Topic and Directly Related to All Things Communication.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 8:35

Pattern of behavior: Insulting Others

- Why do some people feel to need it?

- What are they possibly trying to compensate when insulting others?

- How to make them understand that there are more useful ways of talking to others?

- How to deal with them if they still do it?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 8:41

Pattern of behavior: Acting as if One Was Of Troll Ancestry

- What are the reasons for some people trolling others?

- What if they didn't do it, what exactly would they be missing?

- What are the ways of dealing with Trolls other than simply not responding?

- How to make a Troll abandon his family's tradition? [figure of speech]
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 8:44

Pattern of behavior: Making a Difference Between Offline and Online Activities By Considering the First Part of Real Live But Not the Second


- Why is this distinction being made by many?

- How to deal with those who do it?

- How to explain why one oneself isn't making that distinction when talking to those who do it?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 8:48

Way of speech: Using Much More Words Than Actually Needed

- Why does it happen?

- What are the possible reactions of others when listening to such a speech? Anger? Frustration? Or what else?

- What about situations of some people thinking that those words aren't all required because they are "insignificant details", but in reality, they aren't?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 8:51

Pattern of behavior: Admitting Having Done Something One Considers as Wrong

- When do people tend to admit, and when do they tend not to?

- What are the reactions of others, and how exactly do those reactions depend on some factors like that person admitting something very private, or something that isn't private at all, and so on?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 8:57

Patterns of behavior:

Breaking Down Something That Seems Too Obvious To Even Mention It To Some, like communication, for example

Pointing Out the Very Obvious


- How do you all perceive anything like this, including, but not limited to, myself breaking down communication the way I have been doing it in the last few pages of this log?

- How do you perceive mentioning or even explaining (!) some things that really are obvious to almost everyone, including the person who mentions those obvious matters? This, too, is what I am sometimes doing in this log. And I have my reasons. If you'd really like to know them, I fully agree to tell you.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 9:00

Pattern of behavior: Opening Up Oneself in Front of Pure Strangers

Sometimes a person could decide to open himself/herself up even in front of pure strangers.
They could have a multitude of reasons for doing so.
How does something like this feel to you?
Do you consider the possibility of themselves having a major reason, even if you only would realize why they did so after a few weeks, or even never?
Or do you simply disagree without thinking about anything like this?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 9:09

This log really is taking much of my Language Energy Daily Grand Total.
Still, it is worth it.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 10:18

There was a bit (or even more than just a bit) of skyrocketing, speaking of the increase of this log's views.

But very few people posted any reply.

To "stress" (emphasize) it again in a fully stress-less way:
I am not asking for replies as in "please do help me find some Communication Bigger Picture Mosaic Stones".

And I also already mentioned that I intend to continue writing as if I would know with the utmost certainty that nobody ever will reply. I did so and I still do it that way for the sake of the writing flow.

But as for some of you who would like to take a closer look at anything that is within the log's scope... the more input I get, the more output I think I will be able to produce.

:idea: Another possible reason for yourselves posting some more replies: While I am less than half of a geek (I used to be half of one in the past, and a very long time ago, I even was a complete one), I still am above zero. So one possible reason for giving me some input also could be to have the opportunity of asking someone who is "less than half of a geek but above zero" any communication-related questions that are within the log's scope.

:idea: I fully acknowledge the fact that there are many things related to communication that I still need to take a closer look at, but the same also could apply (and it even does apply) to those with a, for example, very "mainstream" background and perception. There also are many (other) things that people like, for example, but certainly and in no way limited to, myself, could tell you about some (other) aspects of communication.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 20:52

This log is in "no more output without input" mode now.

Amazing. Usually not caring too much about certain numbers, but this thread now has more than 600 views even. Because this has become my favorite number one language topic, this does have some significance to me. Just wanted to let you know that this thread from now on is in "no output without input" mode. Because the First New Communication Bigger Picture Milestone already had been reached at the time I wrote the previous post. I simply was still pondering upon "when exactly should I publicly announce that milestone being reached and change this log to "no more output without input" mode".

As for myself, I could continue using a Pen and Paper Diary from now on, or not using one at all. But I like to give back more than what I take. This also could be related to myself having done it the other way sometimes in the past, and to one or more personal reasons.

Input can be made by replying to any post.

Or by mentioning new patterns of behavior and so on.

Or by asking me (a person with neurodiversity, and this is entirely different from a mental illness or anything) any question on how people with a background like mine could perceive certain situations related to communication.

And as for those of you who are persons with neurodiversity themselves: Yes, I didn't finish learning about communication yet. :) However, I am very grateful for currently experiencing a major metamorphosis. So, for the purpose of informing you of it only, there already are some or even many cases where I can be one of those who are something like a bridge between those with our background and those who have got a different one. You also can ask any question related to what I just described.

So this means that without input, I am not continuing it at all. (This isn't related to being mean or anything, instead, it is because of what I explained above). And whenever there is input, I agree to reply to it and to all possible follow-ups. But whenever the input is gone, I am also, again, ceasing to post anything in this thread until there is some more.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23286
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby linguoboy » 2018-11-08, 20:55

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:What are the possible detailed reasons for any African making such an offer, keeping in mind that this word usually is connected to many, many unpleasant feelings?

Wouldn't you have to ask those Africans?

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Or by asking me (a person with neurodiversity, and this is entirely different from a mental illness or anything) any question on how people with a background like mine could perceive certain situations related to communication.

I don't know how you can say that you "have" neurodiversity. It's not a specific syndrome or identity but rather an approach to neurological differences in general. Like I don't say I "have sexodiversity"; I have a specific sexual identity which lies outside the narrow heteronormative range and that influences how I see the range of sexual identities and behaviours in general.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 21:12

linguoboy wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:What are the possible detailed reasons for any African making such an offer, keeping in mind that this word usually is connected to many, many unpleasant feelings?

Wouldn't you have to ask those Africans?


That is one out of several ways of knowing it, yes.

FYI: Outside of this very log, I don't ask any questions if I already know the answers.
But as for this particular one, while I don't know some answers, I know others, like this one, for example.

However, that doesn't mean that there couldn't be others who contribute some other valuable Bigger Picture Communication Mosaic Stones. Even if the very same question is being answered by several people, the result sometimes can be more complete.

linguoboy wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Or by asking me (a person with neurodiversity, and this is entirely different from a mental illness or anything) any question on how people with a background like mine could perceive certain situations related to communication.

I don't know how you can say that you "have" neurodiversity. It's not a specific syndrome or identity but rather an approach to neurological differences in general.


Other than not literally having said "having it", I already was aware at the time writing it that it sounds a bit non-common. But I still decided to write it that way in this particular case for the sake of a very short term that can be remembered easily.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23286
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby linguoboy » 2018-11-08, 21:17

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Wouldn't you have to ask those Africans?

That is one out of several ways of knowing it, yes.[/quote]
Isn't that the only way of knowing? Anything else is just speculation.

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:FYI: Outside of this very log, I don't ask any questions if I already know the answers. But as for this particular one, while I don't know some answers, I know others, like this one, for example.

So what is the answer you know?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-08, 21:43

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:A culturally relevant but really rare pattern of behavior: Some Africans telling some non-African persons that if they would call them N . . . . . . one day, they wouldn't have the slightest issue with it
Because this pattern is very rare, I didn't even capitalize it.


SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:The question being asked in this post is:
What are the possible detailed reasons for any African making such an offer, keeping in mind that this word usually is connected to many, many unpleasant feelings?


Asking them isn't the only way of knowing why they would make such an offer in some rather rare cases. It can also be known by themselves already having told it using another way :). Or by making some deductions as long as they fully are valid.

linguoboy wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:FYI: Outside of this very log, I don't ask any questions if I already know the answers. But as for this particular one, while I don't know some answers, I know others, like this one, for example.

So what is the answer you know?


When an African tells a Caucasian (using it in the broader sense now) that he really can call him N . . . . . . , of course not every single case would necessarily be the same. However, there are some behavioral general patterns related to this.

They are more inclined to making such an offer when they know that the other (Non-African) person has a genuine interest in Many Things Africa. In addition to that person being someone who also strongly dislikes a certain pre-1945 dictator. Also, if that particular person would already have been speaking to them in African English because of knowing that they appreciate it, this is another token (symbolical) gesture being made by the Non-African person that they really could like. This is because in this case (unlike speaking to them their way when they dislike it because of not knowing the motivation or thinking that it is mockery, etc.), one intentionally isn't using American English, but preferring African English instead, which is something African after all :).

So all of this can contribute to themselves considering a particular person as someone who is "not entirely non-African" or even "somehow African by heart, even if the color is different". And within that framework, there is the possibility of that offer being made, maybe, just maybe without even mentioning that "N . . . . . " topic. However, that didn't happen to me. Instead, I was the one who mentioned it in a very subtle way, but I only did so for the purpose of knowing his exact point of view on it, not because I expected or even really imagined the very possibility of that offer.

Side-note: Not having any issue with American English, using it all the time in this forum. (Sub-side-note for people who are very much into linguistics: I didn't claim that I use it the very same way a native would do. But I don't write in British English...).

One of the Africans who offered it to me told me (and they were a very few only), "You can call me like that, that's no stress. Because I know you, and I know that you wouldn't mean it in the way others do".

And as for another one, I simply was talking to him about Africans severely disliking being called like that. Then he immediately told me nothing more but, "You can call me N . . . . . .".

But still, even when a particular African really makes this offer, there still are several possible pitfalls. I personally do not recommend at all calling them like this even after the offer has been made, for some reasons mentioned in the original post:

https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=60#p1123735

Some additional, personal background:

For a long time, whenever I would start to speak English, I have been (and this still is the case even today) defaulting to the African way unless I intentionally do some additional actions to use American English instead. This is about things like pronouncing the TH as in "thank you" as a T and some more.

"Defaulting" as in "using it per default, unless a different option is selected by myself".

I also am keeping in mind that using African English could sound offensive to Africans who aren't familiar with my reasons for doing so. As opposed to some who do know them, there have been "too many" examples in the past of them appreciating it, thus leading to a better mutual communication experience. But still, when I decide to switch to American English for the purpose of not causing a possible offense, this means selecting a different option rather than using the default setting.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-09, 9:48

This log is in "no more output without input" mode, nothing has changed.
But that still doesn't prevent me from pointing out something I just realized.

There could be a possible contradiction between something I said in the previous post, and what I said in the one before.

Instead of simply editing them "hoping that nobody already realized that there could be a possible contradiction", I decide to write a new post (this one) pointing out why there is no such contradiction. That way is much more beloved to me, aiming for the maximum degree of transparency.

Pre-previous post, additional emphasis added:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:And I also already mentioned that I intend to continue writing as if I would know with the utmost certainty that nobody ever will reply. I did so and I still do it that way for the sake of the writing flow.


Previous post, additional emphasis added:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Just wanted to let you know that this thread from now on is in "no output without input" mode. Because the First New Communication Bigger Picture Milestone already had been reached at the time I wrote the previous post. I simply was still pondering upon "when exactly should I publicly announce that milestone being reached and change this log to "no more output without input" mode".


This is because even if the First New Communication Bigger Picture Milestone already had been reached at the time I wrote the pre-previous post, I myself didn't realize that the new information I got and the new impressions, practice effects etc. are significant enough to really be counted as the First New Milestone. I only found out that this really is the case after some additional thinking, pondering and reflecting.

And as for "I simply was still pondering upon...", this also doesn't mean that I already realized at the time of the pre-previous post that the First New Milestone already has been reached. Instead, "I simply was still pondering upon..." in this case can be read as "There was a simple and non-complex thing that still needed to be done, and this was to ponder upon when exactly I should announce the First New Communication Bigger Picture Milestone being reached". So it doesn't mean, either, that this action (even thinking of when to switch the log to "no output without input" mode) already started when I wrote the pre-previous post.

Having said that, any question of you all about anything I wrote in this log, including this very post, does count as new input. Even if it only would be done for the sake of myself clarifying something that I possibly could have expressed in a way that is a bit easier :).
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Postby langmon » 2018-11-10, 15:17

IpseDixit wrote:Oh man, you really need to learn to ask questions...


While I do not agree to that statement, I still do like to know why you have got this point of view (POV). So whatever you, or anyone else with the same POV, would like to say, I really am interested in knowing it.

Now that was a kind of unexpected input to this log. Even if what has been quoted above was said in another thread, it still was very direct input.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP


Return to “General Language Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest