linguoboy wrote:I understand that the point of this thread is just to point up some contrasts between how certain things are expressed in each language (and I'm finding that discussion very interesting), but I still bristle at the suggestion that two words in different language ever represent a "true match". The closest you can come to that is with specialised technical terms (and even then there may be sociolectal issues). Otherwise there are always instances where one will not be an appropriate translation for the other. How many usages of "come" or "suggest" can you think of which can't be found for their closest respective Estonian equivalents?
The difference between a word like "come" and a word like "viitsima" is that "come"
is considered a multiple-meaning word. If you look it up in a dictionary in English, it will list those multiple meanings, and each of them is likely to have a different translation in Estonian or in any other language, because they are different meanings.
From
Oxford online (translations added by me):
come VERB (came)
1 (no object, usually with adverbial of direction) Move or travel towards or into a place thought of as near or familiar to the speaker. tulema
1.1 Arrive at a specified place. saabuma
1.2 (of a thing) reach or extend to a specified point. jõudma
1.3 (be coming) Approach. tulema
1.4 Travel in order to be with a specified person, to do a specified thing, or to be present at an event. tulema
1.5 (with present participle) Join someone in participating in a specified activity or course of action.kaasa tulema
1.6 (come along/on) Make progress; develop. arenema
1.7i (imperative) Said to someone when correcting or reassuring someone. nonoh
2 (no object) Occur; happen; take place. juhtuma
2.1 Be heard, perceived, or experienced. kuulama, tundma
2.2 (with adverbial, of a quality) become apparent or noticeable through actions or performance. näitama
2.3 (come across" or British "over" or US "off ) appear or sound in a specified way; give a specified impression. muljet jätma
2.4 (of a thought or memory) enter one's mind. meelde tulema
3 (no object, with complement) Take or occupy a specified position in space, order, or priority. ette jõudma
3.1 Achieve a specified place in a race or contest. finišeerima
4 (no object, with complement) Pass into a specified state, especially one of separation or disunion.
4.1 (come to/into) Reach or be brought to a specified situation or result. saama
4.2 (with infinitive) Eventually reach a certain condition or state of mind. jõudma
5 (no object, with adverbial) Be sold, available, or found in a specified form. saadaval olema
6 (informal, no object) Have an orgasm. orgasmi saama
Similarly, the
EKSS dictionary lists 15 definitions for
tulema, likewise with "sub-meanings" marked as a, b, c, and so on. Many overlap very closely with the English definitions above. (I didn't bother with the translations here / ei viitsinud):
1. (eesmärgile osutamata:) lähenedes liikuma. a. (inimese v. looma kohta). b. (sõiduki vm. liikuva objekti kohta2. eesmärgipäraselt lähenedes kuhugi (v. kusagilt) liikuma. a. (seoses kohaga). b. (seoses tegevusega).
3. nähtavale ilmuma, nähtavaks saama, esile ilmuma.
4. kostma, kuulda olema, kuuldavaks saama. . ||(laulu, jutu kohta).
5. (seoses seisundi, oleku v. olukorra kujunemise ja muutumisega). a. (elusolendiga toimuvate füüsiliste, füsioloogiliste, psüühiliste jm. protsesside kohta). b. (elutute objektide, nähtuste vms. kohta).
6. (hrl. ajaliselt:) saabuma, pärale v. kätte jõudma. | PILTL. Nüüd on tulnud minu tund teile tasuda. Paistab, et järg on meie kätte tulnud. Taat arvas, et tema (viimne) tunnike on tulnud 'hakkab surema'. || (tervitusväljendis saabunud. || PILTL (lapse sünni kohta).
7. tekkima, ilmuma, sugenema, sündima. PILTL (kusagilt pärinemise, lähtumise kohta).
8. ‹hrl. 3. pöördes› saama (6. täh.), kujunema. a. osutab mingile saavutusele, tulemusele. b. (seoses omadusega).
9. juhtuma, toimuma, aset leidma.
10. tingitud olema, johtuma, tulenema.
11. (tee, jõe jne. kohta:) kulgema.
12. ‹hrl. ma-infinitiivis› kusagilt ära, mujale siirduma, (mõnikord ainult öeldisverbi tugevdavalt:) ära.
13. ‹üksnes 3. isikus da-infinitiiviga› vaja olema, kohustatud v. sunnitud olema, pidama.
14. ‹ka eitavalt› esineb püsiühendeis, mis väljendavad kinnitust, möönmist.
15. osutab millelegi tulevikus toimuvale v. osaks langevale, sageli täh. ‘saab olema’.
These are multiple-meaning words with different translations for each meaning, which is demonstrated by their many uses listed in the dictionary, and by the different translations for each.
But
viitsima isn't a multiple-meaning word in that sense.
The
EKSS dictionary gives a single meaning for
viitsima:
tahtmist omama, vaevaks võtma, vaevuma, hoolima (midagi teha)
Literal translation of the definition: to have a desire, to take the trouble, to take the trouble, to care (to do something).
This is considered a single meaning in Estonian (this is why it is a single listing rather than a numbered list of meanings like the dictionary had for
tulema). And yet various dictionaries suggest all of the following translations in English (all of which seem to have a slightly different meaning from
viitsima):
To have a mind to do, to feel inclined to do
To care to do
To feel like doing
To take the trouble to do, to bother to, to bother with
(to which Linguoboy added: to fancy)
In the negative:
To be loath to
To not care to do
To have no stomach for doing
Can't be bothered, to be too lazy for
To not give a damn about
To be unwilling to