2018 blog - księżyc

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby księżycowy » 2018-09-12, 12:10

Joking aside, here is this week's goals (a bit late, I admit):

This will be a quick post:
-Start translating stories for Japanese and German
-Get caught up on Anki flashcards
-Do some review in MnN and A1+


I'm contemplating dropping Seneca for the time being. I haven't been to class in at least two months, and I'm worried about missing too much practice. I really haven't done much for those two months. Plus, I really should focus on my studies for anticipated PhD. studies. So that's a thought.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-18, 6:59

księżycowy wrote:Or, alternatively, Vijay could do his damn job!

Well, I did a little bit more of it... :P

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby księżycowy » 2018-09-20, 21:47

Is it reasonable to learn Greek and Latin at the same time at roughly the same (beginning) level?

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby ceid donn » 2018-09-20, 22:16

I did, kind of. I was a bit more ahead with Latin when I started studying Greek. But the main difference that made this doable was I had a Greek study partner who very reliable and showed up to our weekly sessions. This helped me immensely, as I was on my own with Latin, aside from the Classical Language department chair at my uni being quite willing to help me and answer my questions. (Although talking to him usually ended up with him quickly answering my question and then going off a 30 minute one-way discussion about something about Greek, which was his truer passion. He was strange one.)

It's doable, sure. But it is a fair amount of work.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby księżycowy » 2018-09-20, 22:23

More work then Japanese and German?

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby ceid donn » 2018-09-20, 22:44

I don't think I have ever worked as hard studying any language as I had to with Latin. It was just so much I had to learn, but I was studying independently to pass a test at my uni to get credit for Latin for my grad program without taking 4 semesters of it. That additional pressure made it more difficult for me, for sure. Latin grammar can get pretty complex so depending on your past experience with languages, it can be quite a kraken to get a handle on. Beyond that, it's a lot of memorizing vocabulary, declensions and conjugations, which is not the funniest thing ever, if you ask me. Generally, I'd say it's easier to learn than Japanese for an English speaker, but there is a lot to learn compared to modern Romance languages or even German, so it will require the time you need to learn all that. With regular studying, it took my just over a year to complete Wheelock's on my own, which amazed the Classical Languages dept chair at my uni, who told me he never knew anyone who was able to get past chapter 16 or so in Wheelock by themselves.

Greek, aside from its script, is easier, at least I thought it was. But the requirements I needed to meet for my grad program for Greek wasn't as high as they were with Latin. Nonetheless, I was finding Greek text fairly accessible after a few months of study, with a lexicon. Ancient Greek is definitely easier than either German or Japanese, if you ask me.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby księżycowy » 2018-09-20, 22:55

Interesting.

Thanks for all that.

I was contemplating whether or not to add Latin in to my summer picks of Greek and Hebrew.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby ceid donn » 2018-09-20, 23:12

I was fortunate to get my Biblical Hebrew credits by taking 2 semesters with a really excellent teacher. He had a great method down, which focused on getting his students reading the Hebrew texts. I remember Hebrew being very easy, but I think a lot of that was how good his method was. So I cannot offer much perspective on learning it as a self-learner.

But good luck with your studies, and if you go with Latin, shop around and find something better suited for self-learners than Wheelock's. :lol: I had to go with Wheelock's because the internet was just barely a thing when I was studying it and so there was a lot I needed to learn but resources for those aspects of Latin were mainly Wheelock's and textbooks older than Wheelock's. Now there are tons of stuff online to help people with some the more annoying things with Latin, which is great. Like this: https://blogs.transparent.com/latin/the ... revisited/ God, I wish I had stuff like that back in the late 90s.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby księżycowy » 2018-09-20, 23:17

I've actually learned both Greek and Hebrew with teachers before. Unfortunately the school only had a semester course for both, so we didn't get far. It was still a great start though. The teacher was great too.

I hated the textbook we used for Hebrew. :lol:

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby kevin » 2018-09-21, 8:58

ceid donn wrote:Greek, aside from its script, is easier, at least I thought it was.

That's interesting, because I felt the same, but I always thought that was because Latin gave me some background about how to deal with grammar (when I started Latin, I didn't know what a conjugation or a case was). But if you started them around the same time, that doesn't seem to be what makes it easier.

I find this surprising because as difficulties you mentioned learning declensions and conjugations in Latin, and Greek has more grammatical forms. You also mentioned vocabulary, but Greek vocabulary tends to be less familiar than Latin. All of this would suggest that Greek should be harder than Latin.

Then why does Greek feel easier, to both of us?

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby Ser » 2018-09-21, 12:53

I am the opposite and find Greek much harder than Latin. The unfamiliar-looking vocabulary of Greek really makes a difference for me.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby Multiturquoise » 2018-09-25, 11:54

Ser wrote:I am the opposite and find Greek much harder than Latin. The unfamiliar-looking vocabulary of Greek really makes a difference for me.


I find Greek easier than Latin. As far as I know Latin has hundreds of irregular verbs. Greek has less, Turkish, with 13 irregular verbs, has even less than Greek.

I've studied (Modern) Greek at university for one or two years (I left it due to mental reasons). I'm still studying Greek as a hobby for now, but I'll study again to go back there.
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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby Ser » 2018-09-25, 17:16

Multiturquoise wrote:I find Greek easier than Latin. As far as I know Latin has hundreds of irregular verbs. Greek has less, Turkish, with 13 irregular verbs, has even less than Greek.

I meant Ancient Greek, which easily has way more irregularity in its verbs than Latin.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby linguoboy » 2018-09-25, 17:26

Ser wrote:
Multiturquoise wrote:I find Greek easier than Latin. As far as I know Latin has hundreds of irregular verbs. Greek has less, Turkish, with 13 irregular verbs, has even less than Greek.

I meant Ancient Greek, which easily has way more irregularity in its verbs than Latin.

Someone else told me recently that they thought Latin verbs were more difficult than those of Ancient Greek and I didn't know what to say. I guess ablaut comes very naturally to some people?
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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby Multiturquoise » 2018-09-25, 18:13

Ser wrote:
Multiturquoise wrote:I find Greek easier than Latin. As far as I know Latin has hundreds of irregular verbs. Greek has less, Turkish, with 13 irregular verbs, has even less than Greek.

I meant Ancient Greek, which easily has way more irregularity in its verbs than Latin.


Then you're right about it. Ancient Greek and even Early Modern Greek was polytonic, unlike the Modern Greek language used today.
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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-10-07, 22:39

I definitely find Latin easier than Ancient Greek and Modern Greek way easier than either of those. Someday, maybe I can get back into both Ancient and Modern Greek and also learn more of (or about?) the many varieties of Modern Greek (if not also Ancient Greek).

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-15, 19:56

Ok, so here's where I'm at:

I haven't done much siince my last language update (you know, the one's with the goals). I've been distracted and lacking in motivation lately. But I'm going to try to do my best to change that.

I'm going to switch a few things up:

-My focus to Japanese and (especially) German has not changed, but I realize that I can probably only both putting one of these down for my application to graduate studies. That will be German. I'll still work on Japanese and still focus on it, but I will be a bit more relaxed than I was trying to be. I'm thinking I'll do German and Japanese Mon.-Fri.

-I'm temporarily changing my focus with German only to reading, for obvious reasons. To that end, I've also acquired a copy of German Quickly by April Wilson. By not means do I intend to stop using Begegnungen, but due to the workload that Begegnungen demands (especially in regards to vocabulary), I do not see myself getting through enough of the series to prove I can read German well enough to get into the program. I will rather use Begegnungen as a supplement/review for the time being, until I finish Wilson's textbook. I will also work on other skills for German, but with deadlines fast approaching, I have to be careful with my time.

-I was saddened with leaving the Seneca class that I was taking. I know that that was the right decision to make, but I feel I do want to continue my studies of Iroquoian languages and culture. As such, I've decided to pick Cayuga back up again. I feel having a textbook will make me feel like I am able to "catch up" and not miss any material. Plus, if I need to I can take a break and easily find where I left off. Those things don't translate well with a class setting. It is my hope that I'll be able look at Seneca again in the future, though. I'm thinking I'll do Cayuga Mon., Wed., Fri.

-I'm tossing around the idea of adding some languages back on with the idea of doing them probably once a week. These are Irish (review/remember), Polish and/or Aleut. Obviously I want to see how well I do getting back into some German and Japanese and adding some Cayuga, but I think it's possible. If I were to do any of them, they would probably be done on the weekend, when I take a break from my other studies.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby ceid donn » 2018-10-15, 21:23

Good luck with German. I’m very overdue for a Big Fat German Review myself but that will have to wait until the winter holidays, if not Spring 2019. I am not familiar with either the books you mention but German Quickly looks interesting.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-15, 22:39

ceid donn wrote:Good luck with German.

Danke! :)
I am not familiar with either the books you mention but German Quickly looks interesting.

Yeah, it looked pretty good to me.

Begegnungen is a textbook used in Germany (and presumably at least Austria, if not Switzerland too) to teach foreigners German. It's completely in German (aside from the grammar text/workbook and the glossary).

Getting back to my plans, I think I'm going a similar route as dEhiN and am cutting Anki out of my study routine (if it was ever truly there to begin with :P ), so I don't think once a week will work for any of my languages. I'm going to have to play around with my schedule and see how things go and what not. We'll see what happens.

I'm particularly interested to see how that sort of thing would work for Japanese and Cayuga. I anticipate still drilling vocabulary (and for Japanese, kanji) in some fashion at least a bit. I'll have to see what I feel works.

I'm thinking I might just look over the vocabulary (/kanji) in the book and maybe quiz myself somehow. I'm still tossing ideas around though.
Last edited by księżycowy on 2018-10-16, 0:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 blog - księżyc

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-16, 0:07

I'm excited and curious to see what you come up with. I definitely see the apparent need for vocab review/drilling with a language like Japanese or a language you're just starting out in. (Not sure if that's actually the case for you and Cayuga, but I'm assuming so.) When I start Ojibwe, and even as we go through Sumerian, I might either utilize Anki again, but with modifications so I'm not reviewing every day, or come up with some other method of initial review.
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