TAC - voron (Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic)

[vijayjohn]

Okay, voron! Spas, have a nice trip, and I hope you get well soon!

[voron]

Belated thanks, Vijay! I had a wonderful trip.

Now that I am back, I am going to do more for our study groups (even if it means I have to type with only one hand).

[voron]

I started reading this collection of small stories by Yaşar Kemal. Read the first story, Sarı Sıcak.
https://www.dr.com.tr/kitap/yolda-secme ... 0000329569

I finished this book today. It is the first fiction book in Turkish that I have ever read completely, so it's an occasion for a small celebration. The book wasn't particularly easy -- I didn't expect it to be, given that Yaşar Kemal is compared to Tolstoy with regard to his picturesque descriptions of man and nature -- but I liked it a lot.

I used to read a lot in my school and university years, but then I got out of the reading habit, sadly -- besides this book, I don't remember when I last read a fiction book. One of the reasons why I stopped reading was probably me buying a smartphone. I hope I can reduce my smartphone time and get back to reading.

Also, I watched this Turkish film yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUr8SCzNyN8

[voron]

I was just reading this Turkish article:
http://www.nusaybinim.com/ilk_defa_yapi ... 12198.html

with the title:
İlk defa yapılan Kürtçe mashup büyük ilgi gördü
A mashup in Kurdish which was made for the first time attracted a lot if attention

and I was like: mashup must be an Arabic passive participle (like mahcup, makbul and tons of others in Turkish), but what is this root s-h-p? I pondered over it for a minute, looked it up in a dictionary, and then realized it's an English word.

And btw, mashup (maS7uub) could indeed be a valid Arabic participle with the meaning 'accompanied (by)':
http://livingarabic.com/dictionaries?dc ... 9%88%D8%A8

[voron]

I subscribed to this Turkish video streaming service, similar to Netflix:
https://www.blutv.com.tr/

Kalemiye mentioned it before here:
viewtopic.php?p=1090297#p1090297

It is free for 1 week (but asks for your credit card data), and then it charges you 14.90 TL per month, which is about €2.

I specifically wanted to watch this series which is the service's own production. It tells about ghettos and gangs in Adana:
https://www.blutv.com.tr/diziler/yerli/ ... ar-adanada

I clicked through a few series and films -- many of them had English subtitles, some of them also had Arabic and/or Turkish subtitles. The foreign films had both Turkish dubbing and the original audio. Overall the service looks rad.

[vijayjohn]

Are you able to type with both hands now?

[voron]

Are you able to type with both hands now?

Kinda, but it still hurts.

[vijayjohn]

Are you able to type with both hands now?

Kinda, but it still hurts.

Aww. Well, get well soon!

[voron]

Well, get well soon!

Thank you!

Dehin's starting reading the grammar of Sumerian makes me want to read something about Hittite. Because why not? Seems like there are enough resources available for the intro into Hittite.

[vijayjohn]

On the LRC website, you mean? Yeah, there's a lot there. I used to work at the LRC by the way.

I just learned from that that Hittite texts were typically trilingual. (In Hittite, Sumerian, and Akkadian - i.e. they basically code-switch between these three).

[voron]

On the LRC website, you mean? Yeah, there's a lot there. I used to work at the LRC by the way.

What is LRC website?

No, I mean titles like these:
Held W.H., Schmalstieg W.R., Gertz J.E. Beginning Hittite
Hoffner Jr. H.A., Melchert H.C. A Grammar of the Hittite Language
Иванов В.В. Хеттский язык

They are all available for free.

[vijayjohn]

Oh, sorry! This is the homepage of the LRC: https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/lrc/index.php, and these are their (free, online) lessons for Hittite: https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieol/hitol.

[księżycowy]

I used to have a copy of Schmalsteig, et al. It's heavy on the Indo-European and comparative linguistics, if I remember correctly.

Still, a good beginning text. I've been meaning to get another copy, even though comparative linguistics isn't really my thing.

[voron]

Oh, sorry! This is the homepage of the LRC: https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/lrc/index.php, and these are their (free, online) lessons for Hittite: https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieol/hitol.

Looks great, thanks!

I didn't like Held et al. Beginning Hittite because the formatting is awful -- it looks like it was typed on a typewriter. Yes, I can afford to be picky when there are several resources to choose from.

And the Russian book, Ivanov's Hittite Language, goes on for 50+ pages about the historical and cultural context. No thank you, I want to jump right into the texts and grammar, so the link you suggested Vijay looks to be the best candidate.

I used to have a copy of Schmalsteig, et al. It's heavy on the Indo-European and comparative linguistics, if I remember correctly.

I am not a fan of comparative linguistics either. Actually the only thing I want to do with Hittite at the moment is, to go to the Archaeological Museum in Istanbul (where they happen to have this and other Hittite plates), stand there in awe and be able to recognize a few symbols. And see if it inspires me to anything further.

[księżycowy]

It appears (from the quick look I took on Scribd) that I was mistakenly remembering the other Slavonica title on Old Church Slavonic. Beginning Hittite doesn't appear to have much by way of comparative linguistics. At least from what I saw in my quick peek.

[voron]

I just learned from that that Hittite texts were typically trilingual. (In Hittite, Sumerian, and Akkadian - i.e. they basically code-switch between these three).

Yeah I just learnt from there too that Hittite texts are interspersed with Sumerograms and Akkadograms.

Is it that surprising though? It's a bit like English containing loan words from multiple languages, or a closer example, Japanese writing containing kanji. I mean it's not really code-switching, but more like loans, because they are separate words, not phrases or sentences, and they are used according to the Hittite grammar rules for the most part.

[voron]

Reading the first Hittite lesson from the LRC website.

This paragraph is fun:

Finally, so-called "rebus spellings" involving the use of homonyms were used, especially in writing proper names. This is a strategy comparable to writing the English phrase "I see" with a picture of an eye followed by wavy lines to indicate the waves of the sea, or modern Internet abbreviations such as CU l8tr for "See you later." For example, the word for "man" in Luvian is ziti, and it is an element in a number of names of men in later Hittite. The proper name Uhhaziti is spelled with both Hittite syllables and the Sumerogram LÚ 'man' as MU-uh-ha-LÚ in the Annals of Mursilis. One gets the impression that the scribes were having fun with such punning spellings.

Also, I seem to be able to make out one character on this Hittite plate:


This looks like URU, a Sumerian determiner that means 'city'. Or am I making things up?

[Antea]

Ok, so now I am wanderlusting for Sumerian, Akkadian and Old Church Slavonic

[księżycowy]

Join the club.

I've wanted to learn them all since I was a teen.

[vijayjohn]

Is it that surprising though? It's a bit like English containing loan words from multiple languages, or a closer example, Japanese writing containing kanji. I mean it's not really code-switching, but more like loans, because they are separate words, not phrases or sentences, and they are used according to the Hittite grammar rules for the most part.

Ah, okay. Even otherwise it wouldn't have been that surprising. I was just surprised because I had no idea.

This paragraph is fun

Heheh yeah, the rebus principle is always fun. Chinese uses it, too.

Ok, so now I am wanderlusting for Sumerian, Akkadian and Old Church Slavonic