Irish Study Group

[vijayjohn]

Oh, interesting! I didn't realize there were at least three people on this forum who mainly spoke Munster Irish...go raibh maith agat!

I only didn't post my exercises because it would have been essentially the same as you already had posted, so there was probably little use in doing so.

Would you prefer if I posted them anyway?

Okay, in that case, maybe I can just keep doing what we did last time (EDIT: so you don't have to post everything if you don't want to, but you can if you do want to ). I am learning something from all this after all even though I'm not that serious about learning Irish yet. (I once went through almost all of Colloquial Cambodian with much the same attitude (and no audio, as is typically the case for me). It wasn't as unhelpful as it might seem).

[Antea]

But also, how is that going to work if only you, kevin, and I guess Antea are seriously studying it? Are you and kevin still intending to work through the exercises or something?

I am really at the first step, that means, trying to get myself acquainted with the structures, basic vocabulary and grammar. But I obviously will need a lot of time to get to any real level. This is just like a first contact, and I don't know how far it will get me

[vijayjohn]

Well, I would say I am, too! But anyway, I just finished doing the exercises for Unit 2.

► Show Spoiler

Exercise 1

1. Is as Bearna mé féin.
2. Cé as tusa? (<- isn't this a typo, and shouldn't it actually be cé as thusa?)
3. Is as Ros an Mhíl í Siobhán.
4. As Scríob ó dhúchas é.
5. Is as Carna mé féin.

Exercise 2

1. Séamas: Cén áit a bhfuil tú i do chónaí?
2. Eithne: Tá mé i mo chónaí i nGaillimh.
3. Séamas: Cén áit a bhfuil tusa i do chónaí? (<- lol isn't he just repeating the same question he just asked?)
4. Eithne: I gCarna. Seo í Áine. A Áine, is é seo Séamas.
5. Áine: Dia dhuit, a Shéamais. Tá mé féin i mo chónaí i gCarna freisin.
6. Séamas: Is ceantar álainn é Carna.

Exercise 3

Rinneadh athscríobh ar dhá dhán atá i mbéal an phobail san amhrán seo. Sin iad “Cill Aodáin” le Antaine Ó Reachtabhra (c. 1784 –1832) amhrán molta faoina fhód dúchais i gContae Mhaigh Eo agus “Mise Raifteirí an File,” dán a leagtaí ar Raifteirí ach go ndéantar amach anois faoi gur i Meiriceá a cumadh é i dtreo dheireadh na naoú haoise déag, ag fear darbh ainm Seán Ó Ceallaigh. Tógadh mé fhéin cupla míle ó “Chill Aodáin” – i
mo ghasúr dom, rith sé liom riamh go mba bhrónach an chaoi nár éirigh le Raifteirí a bhaile dúchais a bhaint amach arís, mar a bhí beartaithe aige san amhrán. I ndeireadh na nochtóidí, tráth ar cumadh an t-amhrán seo, bhí cúrsaí imirce imithe chun donais in Éirinn. Tógadh seachtar gasúr sa teach s’againne – bhí cúigear acu sin faoin tráth sin ina gcónaí i Londain. San amhrán seo, samhlaítear Raifteirí mar dheoraí Éireannach i Londain, é ag saothrú cupla pingin mar cheoltóir san Underground, ag brionglóideach faoi Chill Aodáin, ach gan dul ar ais ann riamh é féin.

Exercise 4

1. Tá mé i mo chónaí sna Forbacha.
2. Tá tú i do chónaí sa Spidéal.
3. An bhfuil tú i do chónaí sa ar an gCnoc? [wtf that was a trick question!!! They said use sa, san, or sna...]
4. Tá mise i mo chónaí sa ar an Tulaigh. [same shit here]
5. Tá mé i mo chónaí sa nGearmáin.
6. Tá tú i do chónaí sna Cealla Beaga.
7. An bhfuil tú i do chónaí san Iodáil?

Exercise 5

1. f (Alba - Albanach)
2. k (An Afraic - Afraiceach)
3. a (Éire - Éireannach)
4. g (An Fhrainc - Francach)
5. j (An Ghearmáin - Gearmánach)
6. b (An Ghréig - Gréagach)
7. l (An Iodáil - Iodálach)
8. d (Meiriceá - Meiriceánach)
9. i (An Rúis - Rúiseach)
10. m (Sasana - Sasanach)
11. h (An tSín - Síneach)
12. c (An tSeapáin - Seapánach)
13. e (An Spáinn - Spáinneach)

Exercise 6

1. Q: Cén áit a bhfuil tú ag fanacht?
A: An Bóthar Buí, An Cheathrú Rua, Contae na Gaillimhe.

2. Q: Cén áit a bhfuil tú i do chónaí?
B: An Cnoc, Indreabhán, Contae na Gaillimhe.

3. Q: Cén seoladh atá agat?
A: Is ea 13 Bóthar na Siopaí, Contae Cathair na Gaillimhe. [right, because the shop is in the city, not just in the county...]

4. Q: Cén seoladh atá agat?
A: 186 An Cnocán Rua, Bóthar an Spidéil, Maigh Cuilinn, Contae na Gaillimhe.

Exercise 7

1. Dia dhuit, a Shéamais.
2. Nollaig Shona dhaoibh, a Sheáin agus a Mháirín.
3 An bhfuil áthas oraibh, a Chathail agus a Eoin?
4 An bhfuil ocras ort, a Áine?
5 Cén uimhir fón atá agat, a Mhichíl?
6 Go maith, go raibh maith agaibh, a Bhreandáin, a Eilís, agus a Phóilín.
7 Cén seoladh atá agat, a Mhairéad?

Exercise 8

1. Tá sé gar don siopa. [maybe "in aice leis an siopa" would have been a better answer here?]
2. Tá sé in aice leis an siopa.
3. Tá sé ar an taobh eile den bhóthar.
4. Tá sé cúpla ciliméadar ón tsiopa gar don séipéal.
5. Tá sé ar an taobh eile den bhóthar.

Exercise 9

1. Tá sé cúpla ciliméadar ón dTrá Bháin [isn't it "Bháin" instead of "Bhán"?].
2. Cén áit sna Forbacha a bhfuil sé sin?
3. Tá sé in aice leis an séipéal.
4. Tá sé gar don bhmbunscoil.
5. Cén áit sa leabharlann a bhfuil sé sin?
6. Tá sé cúpla ciliméadar ón dTrá Gheal.
7. Tá sé gar don Ionad Sláinte.
8. Tá sé in aice leis an stáisiún peitril.

Exercise 10

1. An bhfuil áiseanna maithe ar an gCeathrú Rua? Tá, tá óstan, leabharlann, siopaí, scoileanna, oifig an phoist, séipéal, agus cógaslann ar an gCeathrú Rua.
2. An bhfuil áiseanna maithe sa Spidéal? Tá, tá bláthadóir, búistéara [the answer key says "búistéir"??], gruagaire, ionad sláinte, leabharlann, siopaí, scoileanna, oifig an phoist, séipéal, stáisiún peitril, agus cógaslann sa Spidéal.
3. An bhfuil áiseanna maithe i Ros an Mhíl? Tá, tá bunscoil, tithe lóistín, siopa, séipéal, teach tábhairne, agus bialann i Ros an Mhíl.

Exercise 11

Ainm Custaiméra Vijay John
Seoladh [my street name and number], Austin, Texas, SAM
Banc [the name of my bank]
Seolaidh bainc [the bank's address]
Cód sórtála [the bank's sort code] Uimhir Chuntais [the account number]
[I'd circle this option because I don't live in Ireland, so I can't just drop by some shop in Ireland every day or whatever ]
SÍNTIÚS POIST
[...]SAM/Ceanada: £23.80 (míosúil)[...]
[I'm not going to say from what date because it's way later than 2008 now anyway ]
Dáta 02/07/2018

EDIT: Now I just tried to correct my mistakes or dispute some of the discrepancies with the answer key. I didn't realize last week there was an answer key! Oops

[kevin]

Oh, interesting! I didn't realize there were at least three people on this forum who mainly spoke Munster Irish...go raibh maith agat!

Standard with a Munster pronunciation is different from proper Munster dialect, though. I think I would understand Ciarán fairly easily (apart from lacking vocabulary, of course), but I would have trouble with the real dialect that linguoboy and Pól are learning.

EDIT: Now I just tried to correct my mistakes or dispute some of the discrepancies with the answer key. I didn't realize last week there was an answer key! Oops

Oh, there's an answer key? I didn't realise that either.

But if everyone uses the answer key, then what's left to discuss here? Only things that remain unclear in the book?

[vijayjohn]

Oh, there's an answer key? I didn't realise that either.

Yep! At the back of the book

But if everyone uses the answer key, then what's left to discuss here? Only things that remain unclear in the book?

Maybe why some of my answers were wrong (this may have been what you meant)

But we don't have to use the answer key. Although you could if you like. Like, I could write out my answers, then you could check them against the answer key.

[księżycowy]

Standard with a Munster pronunciation is different from proper Munster dialect, though. I think I would understand Ciarán fairly easily (apart from lacking vocabulary, of course), but I would have trouble with the real dialect that linguoboy and Pól are learning.

Indeed.

EDIT: Now I just tried to correct my mistakes or dispute some of the discrepancies with the answer key. I didn't realize last week there was an answer key! Oops

Oh, there's an answer key? I didn't realise that either.

But if everyone uses the answer key, then what's left to discuss here? Only things that remain unclear in the book?

It's Colloquial, of course there's an answer key. I thought it was common knowledge that Colloquial books have answer keys. TYI and Learning Irish also have answer keys.

[vijayjohn]

So does cé as tusa make any sense like the answer key suggests, or is it really just a typo for cé as thusa?

[linguoboy]

So does cé as tusa make any sense like the answer key suggests, or is it really just a typo for cé as thusa?

I got no idea what crazy shit they say in Connemara; sensible people say "Cad as duit?"

Lom dáiríribh, it could perhaps be a dialectal variation where either /s/ blocks lenition of /t/ or as is being treated like an uninflected preposition. I don't know enough about Connacht varieties to say.

[vijayjohn]

Well, CI says:

When indicating where you are from, you can use the expression Is as _____ mé or just as _____ mé. As means “out of” or “from.” The question is Cé as thú? For emphasis, one can say Cé as thusa? or Cé as thú féin? (yourself). Recall that the f in féin is usually pronounced as h.

(And IIRC the f in féin is actually pronounced [f] in Munster and maybe Ulster).

So I thought it would seem to be a typo that's just in the Answer Key, but I wasn't sure whether I was missing something.

[linguoboy]

(And IIRC the f in féin is actually pronounced [f] in Munster and maybe Ulster).

For sure in Munster. (Ulster is bird language to me.)

[vijayjohn]

I love your descriptions of non-Munster varieties of Irish.

So let me get this straight: i triggers eclipsis, but while sa, san, sna, don, and ón also trigger eclipsis, they don't affect words that begin with t or d? Is this another dialect-specific feature as far as any of you are aware?

[księżycowy]

Dentals.

[linguoboy]

So let me get this straight: i triggers eclipsis, but while sa, san, sna, don, and ón also trigger eclipsis, they don't affect words that begin with t or d? Is this another dialect-specific feature as far as any of you are aware?

Eclipsis after sa(n) is specific to Connacht. All other varieties have lenition (with the exception that f eclipses in Munster). Sna doesn't eclipse. You're probably confusing it with the genitive definite article na, which does.

AFAIK, eclipsis after don bzw. den is only found in Kerry. What varieties have eclipsis after ón?

[księżycowy]

Oh, eclipses, I was misreading your question as asking about lention, Vijay.

[vijayjohn]

Eclipsis after sa(n) is specific to Connacht. All other varieties have lenition (with the exception that f eclipses in Munster).

Okay, thanks!

Sna doesn't eclipse. You're probably confusing it with the genitive definite article na, which does.

Wait, whaaaaaaaaa?

But look, they say Na Forbacha...and Na Cealla Beaga. If they eclipsed, shouldn't they be ?Na bhForbacha and ?Na gCealla Beaga? Or does the eclipsis not apply to placenames in this case or something? EDIT: Or is it just Connacht being weird again?

EDIT2: OH never mind. That's a different na!

AFAIK, eclipsis after don bzw. den is only found in Kerry. What varieties have eclipsis after ón?

In this book, they have eclipsis after both of those. I think? Because one of the examples in the book is Tá sé cúpla ciliméadar ón mBóthar Buí, and their answer key for sentence 4 in Exercise 9 says Tá sé gar don mbunscoil. But then another one of their example sentences is Tá sé gar don chéibh nua, which is lenition, not eclipsis, right??

I'm so confused! You know what this means, right? I should've listened to księżycowy ages ago, burned this damn book in a fire, and joined the rest of y'all down in Munster.

[księżycowy]

You can still come over to our side, Vijay.

[vijayjohn]

Actually, I did manage to figure out the na thing and edited my post...but the don thing and the ón thing, on the other hand...I still have no clue what's going on there.

[księżycowy]

Welcome to the world of Irish dialectology.
It's so complicated, not even the authors know what's right anymore.

[vijayjohn]

Until someone says otherwise, I'm going to assume that a) Connemara is just weird and b) their answer key is fucked up.

[księżycowy]

"Otherwise."