Cognates

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Michael
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Re: Cognates

Postby Michael » 2018-01-20, 6:36

(sq) mëlçi liver < PA *mil(i̯)tiā
(it) milza spleen (Germanic loanword)
(de) Milz spleen
(sv) mjälte spleen
(en) milt spleen, esp. of an animal bred for food; fish semen

From PIE *(s)meld- "to beat, grind, crush, weaken".
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Romanian (ro) Old English (en_old) Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-20, 17:40

Michael wrote:(ro) învăța id.

If my understanding of Romanian (grammar) is correct, that should be a învăța.

Persian (fa) باده bâde - wine, must (not fully fermented grape juice/wine)
Mandarin Chinese (zh) 葡萄 pútáo - grape

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Re: Cognates

Postby Michael » 2018-01-21, 2:33

(sq) stuhi, -a, -Ø(të) storm
(grc) στοιχεῖον [stoikheîon] element, sprit

(grc) στοῖχος [stoîkhos] row in an ascending series, file (of soldiers), turn
(sq) shteg, -u, shtigje(t) path < PA *staiga
(got) staiga id.
(en) stair
(en_old) stǣġer f id. < PG *staigriz
(nl) steiger id.
(ga) staighre id. (loanword from ME staire)
(en_old) stīġan to climb

All from PIE *steygʰ- "to go, rise, step, walk, stride".
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Romanian (ro) Old English (en_old) Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Re: Cognates

Postby linguoboy » 2018-01-22, 20:13

(ru) сорок sorok "forty"
(tr) kırk "forty"

Did not see that one coming.
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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-23, 5:03

More fun with Turkish!

Arabic (ar) بَدَلَ‏ badala 'to replace'
Turkish (tr)Serbian (sr) budala 'idiot'
Urdu (ur) بدلنا/Hindi (hi) बदलना badalnā [bəˈd̪əlna] 'to change'

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Re: Cognates

Postby OldBoring » 2018-01-23, 9:50

vijayjohn wrote:Mandarin Chinese (zh) 葡萄 pútáo - grape

Are you Taiwanese? :evil: *pútao

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Re: Cognates

Postby księżycowy » 2018-01-23, 15:21

OldBoring wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Mandarin Chinese (zh) 葡萄 pútáo - grape

Are you Taiwanese? :evil: *pútao

I think this summer is going to be fun. :P

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-24, 20:21

I often fail to realize that some words have neutral tones because my sources are inconsistent about which words do and don't. :P

EDIT:
English (en) authentic
English (en) effendi
Greek (el) αφέντης aféntis - master, boss, ruler, prince
Turkish (tr) efendi - master, sir

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Re: Cognates

Postby atalarikt » 2018-01-25, 12:49

Tahitian (ty) tatau to write
Javanese (jv) tatu scar, wound
English (en) tattoo a form of a body modification where a design is painted into a person's body
Last edited by atalarikt on 2018-01-26, 12:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cognates

Postby OldBoring » 2018-01-25, 21:28

vijayjohn wrote:I often fail to realize that some words have neutral tones because my sources are inconsistent about which words do and don't. :P

I think some dictionaries mechanically put the pinyin of every hanzi, independently of context, so they ignore the neutral tones, and are also bad at picking the correct reading with duoyinzi.
As a general rule, if the second element doesn't add meaning to the compound, it's almost always neutral.

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-26, 3:40

OldBoring wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I often fail to realize that some words have neutral tones because my sources are inconsistent about which words do and don't. :P

I think some dictionaries mechanically put the pinyin of every hanzi, independently of context, so they ignore the neutral tones, and are also bad at picking the correct reading with duoyinzi.
As a general rule, if the second element doesn't add meaning to the compound, it's almost always neutral.

No, it's not. 读书、 写字、 游泳、 哪儿、 蝴蝶、 国家、 醉酒、 可以、 吃饭、 早上、 常常、 葡萄干、 命运、 增加...

And it's not just dictionaries. Textbooks and grammars disagree on which syllables in which words have neutral tones.

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Re: Cognates

Postby OldBoring » 2018-01-26, 6:12

What are those? Examples of compounds with neutral tones or without?

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-26, 16:03

Without. You said:
As a general rule, if the second element doesn't add meaning to the compound, it's almost always neutral.

But in all of those (and lots more), the second element doesn't add meaning to the compound, yet it's not neutral.

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Re: Cognates

Postby OldBoring » 2018-01-28, 18:30

For me 可以 is definitely neutral, 蝴蝶 is neutral, the second character in 葡萄干 is neutral, 常常 can be optionally neutral.
Many northerners pronounce 早上 as neutral. 命运 both are ok.

So yeah, there's no fixed rule. A lot of regional, individual, and free variation.

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-28, 18:32

Like everything else in Mandarin Chinese. This is the part of Chinese that I think I usually find the hardest (when I seriously think about it, that is). :D (Of course, there's plenty of variation in lots of other languages, too. It just tends to be documented better in European languages).

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Re: Cognates

Postby Michael » 2018-01-28, 22:23

(sq-aln) shta/j, -na, -Ø to be stable, stop
(nap) štà to be (temporary), stay [↑št/iengo, -iette, -ato]
(it) stare id. [↑st/o, -etti, -ato] (but used less in Italian than in Neapolitan)
(la) stāre id. [↑st/ō, -etī, -atum]
(es) estar id. [↑est/oy, -uve, -ado]
(pt) estar id. [↑est/ou, -ive, -ado]

All from from PIE *steh₂- "to stand, set, lay".

(sq) fyt, -i, -e throat < PA *spūta
(la) spuere to spit
(nap) sputuà id.
(grc) πτύω [ptýo] id.
(en) to spew
(en_old) spīwan
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Romanian (ro) Old English (en_old) Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

IpseDixit

Re: Cognates

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-01-30, 1:26

Michael wrote:(sq-aln) shta/j, -na, -Ø to be stable, stop
(nap) štà to be (temporary), stay [↑št/iengo, -iette, -ato]
(it) stare id. [↑st/o, -etti, -ato]


Just wanted to point out that in Italian "stare" has the meaning of a temporary "to be" only in non standard varieties of Southern Italy. In its standard, normative form, it only means "stay" / "remain" / "live" (in a place).

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Re: Cognates

Postby Saim » 2018-01-30, 8:36

Michael wrote:(sq-aln) shta/j, -na, -Ø to be stable, stop
(nap) štà to be (temporary), stay [↑št/iengo, -iette, -ato]
(it) stare id. [↑st/o, -etti, -ato] (but used less in Italian than in Neapolitan)
(la) stāre id. [↑st/ō, -etī, -atum]
(es) estar id. [↑est/oy, -uve, -ado]
(pt) estar id. [↑est/ou, -ive, -ado]


(sr) stati/stajati to stand, to stop
(pl) postać/stać to stand, to stop
(ru) постоять/стоять to stand, to stop

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-31, 0:53

Pashto (ps) ژرنده jranda - mill
Western Punjabi (pa.Arab) جندر jandar - mill
Pashto (ps) جندره jandra - padlock
Western Punjabi (pa.Arab) جندرا jandrā - padlock
Malayalam (ml) യന്ത്രം [jən̪ˈd̪rəm] - machine, device

Both of the Pashto words were borrowed from Western Punjabi but at different times, and both of the Punjabi words come from the same Sanskrit word. The Malayalam word is (nearly) identical to the Sanskrit word it's borrowed from.

IpseDixit

Re: Cognates

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-01-31, 1:17

vijayjohn wrote:Pashto (ps) ژرنده jranda - mill
Western Punjabi (pa.Arab) جندر jandar - mill
Pashto (ps) جندره jandra - padlock
Western Punjabi (pa.Arab) جندرا jandrā - padlock
Malayalam (ml) യന്ത്രം [jən̪ˈd̪rəm] - machine, device

Both of the Pashto words were borrowed from Western Punjabi but at different times, and both of the Punjabi words come from the same Sanskrit word. The Malayalam word is (nearly) identical to the Sanskrit word it's borrowed from.


I wonder if they have anything to do with "veranda".


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