Moderator:voron
voron wrote:With Turkish being almost completely regular, and its syntax being close to Japanese and Korean, I am sure you will solve it in no time. Have fun!
eskandar wrote:Very cool project and a great language to try it with. Good luck!
Eminim ki o kız da öyleydi
ayakkabısını kazara düşürmesi hep yalandı
emin 安全・信頼できる > eminim ki きっと
o kız da öyleydi あの子もそうだった
ayakkabı : shoes
kazara : by chance
düşürmek : fall, drop
yalan atmak > to lie. hep yalandı "lied all along"
Karavinka wrote:
kurt tarafından yenilmiş 狼に食べられたらしい
mutluluk küçük kutunun içindeymiş 幸せは小さな箱にあるらしい
The two cards I have are translations of -rashii, which expresses a hearsay. It's going to be fun if this actually is a sort of evidentiality. Waiting for more cards to confirm or discard, but tentatively I'll accept it as an expression of hearsay.
I should start paying close attention to the nouns too, but verbs first.
Karavinka wrote:Commonly seen verb elements. The verbs begin with a stem and get affixed a la Japanese. The last element seems to be pronominal, -m/-n/-nil for sg. I haven't come across much plural to determine.
-yor: present
1sg. bencilce davranmıyorum I'm not acting selfishly
2sg. Sen benim kim olduğumu zannediyorsun? Who do you think I am?
3sg. Günışığı gösteriyor gölgeleri Daylight shows shadows
3pl. Kuşlar şarkı söylüyor, çiçekler açıyor Birds are singing songs, flowers are blooming
-mi-: negative
2sg: Cidden hiç anlamıyorsun, hem de hiç! : You don't understand, not at all!
Already a major departure: the affix order is different from KO/JP. Good news, it's not going to be boring. Bad news, it's going to be a bit of headache when I try to form sentences.
-ce-: future, intent?
1sg. Sana karalılığımın ne olduğunu gösterıcem I'll show you what my darkness? is made of
1sg. Artık gidebileceğim bir yer yok Now there's nowhere I can go
1sg. öyle bile olsa seni hala sevecek miyim? Even then, will I still love you?
-bil-: potential
1sg. Başarabilirim! I can do it!
1sg. Artık gidebileceğim bir yer yok Now there's nowhere I can go
1sg. 1sg. Biliyorum, ama ne yapmalıyım? Ne yapabilirim? I understand, but what should I do? What can I do?
-li: should
1sg. Benim hatam mı? Sevimli bir hata diyelim. Is it my fault? I should say it's a cute fault.
1sg. Biliyorum, ama ne yapmalıyım? Ne yapabilirim? I understand, but what should I do? What can I do?
2sg. Ölmeya hazırlanmalısın You should prepare to die
3sg. Chennem'de yanmalı Should be burning in hell
-ğı-: nominalizer?
Birincisi, saçımı yaptırdığımda bunu farketmelisin First, when I make a hairdo, you should notice it
yaptır-dı-ğım-da in my making
Karavinka wrote:-ma(2) : appears to be a sort of nominalizer
yetişkinler için artık uyuma vaktı For adults, now is time to sleep
Beni ısırmadan, nazik ol Be nice, before biting me
If it can be followed by -dan, it's at least not a verb. I think.
-sa : If ...
Sıradan insanlara ilgim yok. Aranızda uzaylı, zaman-gezgini, esper varsa.. görüşelim. Bu kadar!
Bilmediğim bir şeyler varsa > varsa: "if there is/are" (from varmak). Both examples are 3pl, I'm thinking the 3rd person is unmarked both in singular and plural.
Dünya bulanıklaşıyor, öyle bile olsa seni hala sevecek miyim?
Sürekli, annemin yaptığı tatlıları yediğimden olsa gerek > olsa: "if it is" (from olmak)
Hepsini göster, senin içinse göstereceğim *****i
senin içinse "if it's for you"
-sa/-se is 1) subject to vowel harmony (duh) and 2) not a verbal ending.
Luís wrote:I'm actually enjoying reading this.
It's like a mystery novel, but with morphemes.
Karavinka wrote:That said, some seem to want an extra -n:
küçük kutunun için inside a small box
*kutu-(n)u-n. I understand the first n if Turkish doesn't want to say **kutuu, but what's up with the second n?
Karavinka wrote:The first person is fine, but the second and third person... are they really identical? Then what's up with adı? sınırlarının is another curve; sınır-lar-ın-ın.
I feel like there's some phonological rule underneath. sınırlarının can't be repeating the same two morphemes just because it's plural; the second ı in *sınırların-ı-n must be accusative. The question is the last -n; which echoes a question left in a previous post as well.
And another little piece of derivational morphology:
Ve betadan çıktık. Tam zamanında çıkarıyoruz! We're out of beta. And we're releasing on time!
Bir gün, iki ırk arasında bir savaş çıkageldi.One day, a war broke out between the two races
çıkmak is to go outside/exit, and çıkarmak is to publish, release. çıkarmak also has additional meanings, that seems a bit mystifying, but interesting to note nonetheless.
çıkagelmek is probably a combination of çıkmak and gelmek, but just noting here.
Karavinka wrote:This can be stringed after other affixes, but apparently Turkish doesn't allow -V/V
dünyadaki : dunya-da-(k)-i 世界中の
uzaktaki : uzak-da-(k)-i 遠くの
All the more since this seems to be an exception of -k- softening to -ğ- between vowels. That is, if my parsing here is correct. I'm not quite sure of this yet.
voron wrote:Karavinka, I've been wondering, how is this thread going to finish? Will you check all your guesses against a grammar book as long as you are satisfied with them? Or will you perhaps take a Turkish text and try to see if you understand all the morphemes in it?
You're doing well. I see you've been dealing with the morphology so far; do you consider deriving any rules about syntax? Or is it just straightforward Japanese?
Serafín wrote:I have to say, this is a pretty cool log.
Karavinka wrote:then I'll declare the statement "Turkish is completely regular" to be a bullshit.
Saim wrote:Cool experiment. The other day it occurred to me to do a similar experiment with something like Albanian or a Baltic language but I'm not brave enough to do something as different as Turkish. Good luck!
voron wrote:Karavinka wrote:then I'll declare the statement "Turkish is completely regular" to be a bullshit.
Of course it's not. Even the morphology is not completely regular, and when it comes to syntax (and phraseology), it's just as arbitrary as any other language. You'll have to memorize which cases come with which verbs and all that jazz.
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