księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

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księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2014-07-18, 22:06

So, I figured, due to the nature of this thread being about readings from the Bible i would put it in the ACEL forum. I almost posted it in the Hebrew forum, but I figure this forum needs some love too. :wink: Personally, I'll save the Hebrew forum for Modern Hebrew for the most part.


In order to keep my Biblical Hebrew up to snuff, and hopefully improve it along the way, I'm going to start posting sections of Biblical text that I will gloss, parse key words, and translate. All names (place and person) will conform to the NSRV form. I'd like to go through a whole book of the Bible before moving on to other readings, but we will see how interest guides us. I'll take a few verses at a time for now (my original plan was to do a whole chapter at a time, but that's a little too much to bite off right now).

I've been (slowly) working through 1 Samuel, so why not keep that going.

1 Sam 1:1-5:
וַיְהִי אִישׁ אֶחָר מִן־הָרָמָתַיִמ צוֹפִימ מֵהַ֣ר אֶפְרָיִם וּשְׁמוֹ אֶלְקָנָה בֶּן־יְרֹחָם בֶּן־אְֶלִיהוּא בֶּן־תֹּחוּ בֶן־צוּף אֶפְרָתִי׃ וְלוֹ שְׁתֵּי נָשִׁים שֵׁם אַחַת חַנָּה וְשֵׁם הַשֵּׁנִית פְּנִנָּה וַיְהִי לִפְנִנָּה יְלָדִים וּלְחַנָּה אֵין יְלָדִים׃ וְעָלָה הָאִישׁ הַהוּא מֵעִירוֹ מִיָּמִים יָמִימָה לְהִשְׁתַּחְַוֹת וְלִזְבֹּחַ לַיהוָה צְבָאוֹת בְּשִׁלֹה וְשָׁם שְׁנֵי בְנֵי־עֵלִי חָפְנִי וּפִ֣נְחָס כֹּהְַנִים לַיהוָה׃ וַיְהִ֣י הַיּוֹם וַיִּזְבַּח אֶלְקָנָה וְנָתַן לִפְנִנָּ֣ה אִשְׁתּוֹ וּלְכָל־בָּנֶיהָ וּבְנוֹתֶיהָ מָנוֹת׃ וּלְחַנָּה יִתֵּן מָנָה אַחַת אַפָּיִם כִּי אֶת־חַנָּה אָהֵב וַיהוה סָגַר רַחְמָהּ׃


Verse 1:
וַיְהִי אִישׁ אֶחָר מִן־הָרָמָתַיִמ צוֹפִימ מֵהַ֣ר אֶפְרָיִם וּשְׁמוֹ אֶלְקָנָה בֶּן־יְרֹחָם בֶּן־אְֶלִיהוּא בֶּן־תֹּחוּ בֶן־צוּף אֶפְרָתִי׃


Gloss:
וַיְהִיאִישׁ אֶחָר מִן־הָרָמָתַיִמ צוֹפִימ מֵהַ֣ר אֶפְרָיִם וּשְׁמוֹ
and_it was somanonefrom_Ramathaim Zophimfrom_mountainEphraimand_name_his
אֶלְקָנָהבֶּן־יְרֹחָםבֶּן־אְֶלִיהוּא בֶּן־תֹּחוּבֶן־צוּףאֶפְרָתִי
Elkanahson_Jerohamson_Elihuson_Tohuson_ZuphEphraimite


Parsing of Key Words:
וַיְהִי - vav conversive on a 3rd masc. sing. imperfect, root: היה; "and it was so/thus"
אֶחָר - masc. absolute cardinal number; "one"
מֵהַ֣ר - preposition (מִן) attached to a construct masc. sing. noun; "from [a] mountain"
וּשְׁמוֹ - conjunctive ("and") attached to a const. masc. sing. noun with masc. sing. suffix; "and his name"

Translation:
And there was a [lit: one] man from Ramathaim Zophim* from [a] mountain [of] Ephraim, and his name [was] Elkanah, son of Jeroham, son of Elihu, son of Tohu, son of Zuph, [an] Ephraimite.

*Some translations: from Ramathaim, a Zuphite (I favor "Ramathaim Zophim" as a complete place name, and see no reason for this split at the moment)

Grammar to Learn/Refresh:
-Weak verbs, weak verbs, weak verbs! :lol:
-Refresh alternative forms of conjunctive vav and preposition מִן.
-Personal pronoun suffixes.

Vocabulary to Learn/Refresh:
הַ֣ר

Notes:
This verse was pretty easy. Mostly construct chains connected with maqqefs (almost all of these being a list of ancestors). The trickiest thing was translating the names into something other then the transcription I learned. :lol:
Last edited by księżycowy on 2014-07-23, 21:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2014-07-23, 21:42

Verse 2:
וְלוֹ שְׁתֵּי נָשִׁים שֵׁם אַחַת חַנָּה וְשֵׁם הַשֵּׁנִית פְּנִנָּה וַיְהִי לִפְנִנָּה יְלָדִים וּלְחַנָּה אֵין יְלָדִים׃


Gloss:
יְלָדִיםאֵיןוּלְחַנָּהיְלָדִיםלִפְנִנָּהוַיְהִי
childrenabsenceand_to_Hannahchildrento_Peninnahand_it was so
פְּנִנָּההַשֵּׁנִיתוְשֵׁםחַנָּהאַחַת
Peninnahthe_secondand_nameHannahone
שֵׁםנָשִׁיםשְׁתֵּיוְלוֹ
namewomentwoand_to_him


Parsing of Key Words:

Translation:
And he had two wives, one named Hannah and the second named Peninnah, and it happened that P. had children, but Hannah had no children.

Grammar to Learn/Refresh:
-Numbers (I forgot that last time).

Notes:
-I don't nessicarily plan to go line by line like I have the last two posts. it just will depend on how much I can get done in a few days, as I want to keep posting every few days here. I may try doing a few verses at once (and maybe eventually do more then 5 verses at a time. Either way, every so often I plan to concolidate what I've done translation, vocabulary, and grammar wise into one bigger post. Perhaps every chapter, if it's not too much. We'll see how it goes.

-Nothing really to report about this particular verse, aside from the fact that I was a bit free with my translation, as anyone can tell. Though I did try to keep it pretty close to the Hebrew (including trying to keep it in one sentence; most translations make this a few sentences).

-Also note the order of the glossing has switched to a more Hebrew orientation. (Which is what I intended from the start)

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2014-08-05, 19:09

I forgot the mention in my intro to this thread:
This is as much a way to practice as it is the hope people will help/correct me where appropriate.

More coming up in a few days.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-03-19, 22:30

After a long absence, I'm back to bring more readings, and more glosses! As I'm currently refreshing my Hebrew any help or assistance in translation or or grammar is more than welcome!

First, I'll work through Gen 22:1-14, starting with verses 1-3. My plan is to post the rest throughout the week, tackling 2-3 verses at a time. Without further ado:

Gen 22:1-3
וַיְהִי אַַחַר הַדְּבָרִִ֣ם הַאֵלֶּה וְהָ֣אֱלֹהִים נִסָּה אֶת־אַבְרָהָ֑ם וַיּאֹמֶר אֵלָיו אַבְרָהָם וַיּאֹמֶר הִנֵּנִי׃ וַאֹמֶר קַח־נָא אֶת־בִּנְךָ אֶת־יְחִידְךָ אֲשֶׁר־אָהַבְתָּ אֶת־יִצְחָק וְלֶךְ־לְךָ אֶל־אֶרֶץ הַמֹּרִיָּ֑ה וְהַעֲלֵהוּ שָׁם לְעֹלָה עַל אַחַ֣ד הֶהָרִים אֲשֶׁר אֹמַר אֵלֶיךָ׃ וַיַּשְׁכֵּם אַבְרָהָם בַּבֹּקֶר וַיַּחֲבֹשׁ אֶת־חֲמֹרוֺ וַיִּקַּח אֶת־שְׁנֵי נְעָרָיו אִתּוֺ וְאֵת יִצְחָ֣ק בְּנ֑וֺ וַיְבַקַּע עֲצֵ֣י עֹלָה וַיָּ֣קָם וַיֵּלֶךְ אֶל־הַמָּקוֺם אֲשֶׁר־אָמַר־לוֺ הָאֱלֹהִים׃

Gloss

נִסָּהוְהָ֣אֱלֹהִיםהַאֵלֶּההַדְּבָרִִ֣םאַַחַרוַיְהִי
he_tried/testedand-the-Elohimthe-these_c_plthe-thingsafterand_it_happened
הִנֵּנִיוַיּאֹמֶראַבְרָהָםאֵלָיווַיּאֹמֶראֶת־אַבְרָהָ֑ם
behold-meand-he-saidAbrahamto-himand-he-saidDDO_marker-Abraham
אֶת־יִצְחָקאֲשֶׁר־אָהַבְתָּאֶת־יְחִידְךָאֶת־בִּנְךָקַח־נָאוַאֹמֶר
DDO-Isaacwhich-love-you_masc_sgDDO-only_one-your_masc_sgDDO-son-your_masc_sggo!-prayand-he-said
לְעֹלָהשָׁםוְהַעֲלֵהוּהַמֹּרִיָּ֑האֶל־אֶרֶץוְלֶךְ־לְךָ
to-burnt_offeringthereand-bring_up-himthe-Moriahtoward-landgo-to-you_masc_sg
אֵלֶיךָאֹמַראֲשֶׁרהֶהָרִיםאַחַ֣דעַל
to-you_masc_sgwhich_saythatthe-mountainsanotheron/upon
וַיִּקַּחאֶת־חֲמֹרוֺוַיַּחֲבֹשׁבַּבֹּקֶראַבְרָהָםוַיַּשְׁכֵּם
ַand-he-tookDDO-the-ass-hisand-he-boundin_the-morningAbrahamand-he-started_early
בְּנ֑וֺיִצְחָ֣קוְאֵתאִתּוֺנְעָרָיואֶת־שְׁנֵי
son-hisIsaacand-DDOwith-himservants-hisDDO-two
אֶל־הַמָּקוֺםוַיֵּלֶךְוַיָּ֣קָםעֹלָהעֲצֵ֣יוַיְבַקַּע
toward-the-placeand-he-walkedand-he-cleaved/broke_[through]burnt offeringtrees_constructand-he-bound
הָאֱלֹהִיםאֲשֶׁר־אָמַר־לוֺ
the-Elohimthat-spoke-to-him


Translation

And it happened after these things [that] the Lord tested Abraham and said, "Abraham." And he [Abraham] said, "Here I am." And he said [the Lord], "Pray, go with your only son, who you love, Isaac and take [him/yourselves] to the land of Moriah and offer him up as a burnt offering upon one of the other mountains that speak to you!" And Abraham arose early in the morning and saddled his ass [lit. bound his ass], and he took and bound [some] wood [which] he cleaved [for the] burnt offering. He went toward the place which the Lord spoke to him.

Parsing of Key Words
אֶת־שְׁנֵי - could either be the Definite Direct Object (DDO) marker with the number or the preposition 'with'
וְלֶךְ־לְךָ - qal imperative of הלך plus the preposition ל plus the 2nd masc sg ending ךָ
קַח־נָא - qal m. sg. imperative of לקח plus נָא
וַיְבַקַּע - piel prefix 3rd masc sg of בקע

Notes
There are a lot of qal prefix forms with the vav conversive in this section, which is kind of nice. The hard part (and thank God for the glosses to these readings in Kittel, et al.!) where those verb forms that lost letters.

The use of the verb "to say" אמר is interesting. The NRSV translates it a bit differently, and a little more artistically. Then again, I was going to as close to a literal translation as I could, so that I could understand the actual Hebrew.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-04-01, 18:38

Ok, I'm a little behind in the reading assignments, but that's ok.

Here's the rest of Gen 22:1-14. It'll be a bit long, so I'm not going to gloss it the way I had been doing it. I liked the other way because you could easily see what word I glossed as what, but that is time consuming enough on two or three verses, let alone ten. Therefore, I'll only provide the English in the glossing this time.

The verse numbers were a relatively late development of this post, and I couldn't figure out how to put '4' before the first verse of the Hebrew without starting it all over. So, I just kind of left it unnumbered. Anyone reading this should be able to get the idea. :lol:

I noticed about three spelling errors in the Hebrew as I was working through the translation (I like to type up and print off these texts so I can mark them up, and get some practice typing Hebrew). If there are anymore I missed, please let me know.

Gen 22:4-14
בַּיּ֣וֺם הַשְּׁלִישִׁי וַיִּשָֺּא אַבְרָהָם אֶת־עֵינָיו וַיַּרְא אֶת־הַמָּקוֺם מֵרָחֺק׃ 5 וַיֹּאמֶר אַבְרָהָם אֶל־נָעָרָיו שְׁבוּ־לָכֶם פֹּה עִם־הַחֲמוֺר וַאֲנִ֣י וְהַנַּעַר נֵלְכָה עַד־כֹּ֑ה וְנִשְׁתַּחֲוֶה וְנָשׁוּבָה אֲלֵיכֶם׃ 6 וַיִּקַּח אַבְרָהָמ אֶת־עֲצֵ֣י הָעֹלָה וַיָּשֶֹם עַל־יִצְחָ֣ק בְּנוֺ וַיִּקַּ֣ח בְּיָדוֺ אֶת־הָאֵשׁ וְאֶת־הַמַּאֲכֶ֑לֶת וַיֵּלְכוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם יַחְדָּו׃ 7 וַיֹּאמֶר יִצְחָק אֶל־אַבְרָהָם אָבִיו וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אָבִי וַיֹּאמֶר הִנֶּ֣נִּי בְנִ֑י וַיֹּאמֶר הִנֵּה הָאֵשׁ וְהָ֣עֵצִים וְאַיֵּה הַשֶֹּה לְעֹלָה׃ 8 וַיֹּאמֶר אַבְרָהָם אֱלֹהִים יִרְאֶה־לּוֺ הַשֶֹּה לְעֹלָה בְּנִ֑י וַיֵּלְכוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם יַחְדָּו׃ 9 וַיָּבֹאוּ אֶל־הַמָּקוֺם אֲשֶׁ֣ר אָמַר־ל֣וֺ הָאֱלֹהִים וַיִּבֶן שָׁם אַבְרָהָם אֶת־הַמִּזְבֵּחַ וַיַּעֲרֹךְ אֶת־הָעֵצִ֑ים וַיַּעֲקֹד אֶת־יִצְחָ֣ק בְּנוֺ וַיָּשֶֹם אֹתוֺ עַל־הַמִּזְבֵּחַ מִמַּעַל לָעֵצִים׃ 10 וַיִּשְׁלַח אַבְרָהָם אֶת־יָדוֺ וַיִּקַּח אֶת־הַמַּאֲכֶ֑לֶת לִשְׁחֹט אֶת־בְּנוֺ׃ 11 וַיִּקְרָא אֵלָיו מַלְאַךְ יְהוָה מִן־הַשָּׁמַיִם וַיֹּאמֶר אַבְרָהָם אַבְרָהָם וַיֹּאמֶר הִנֵּנִי׃ 12 וַיֹּאמֶר אַל־תִּשְׁלַח יָדְךָ אֶל־הַנַּעַר וְאַל־תַּעַשֹ לוֺ מְא֑וּמָּה כִּ֣י עַתָּ֣ה יָדַעְתִּי כִּי־יְרֵא אֱלֹהִים אַתָּה וְלֹא חָשַֹכְתָּ אֶת־בִּנְךָ אֶת־יְחִידְךָ מִמֶּנִּי׃ 13 וַיִּשָֹּא אַבְרָהָם אֶת־עֵינָיו וַיַּרְא וְהִנֵּה־אַיִל אַחַר נֶאֱחַז בַּסְּבַךְ בְּקַרְנָ֑יו וַיֵּלֶךְ אַבְרָהָם וַיִּקַּ֣ח אֶת־הָאַיִל וַיַּעֲלֵהוּ לְעֹלָה תַּחַת בְּנוֺ׃ 14 וַיִּקְרָם אַבְרָהָם שֵׁם־הַמָּקוֺם הַהוּא יְהוָ֣ה יִרְאֶ֑ה אֲשֶׁר יֵאָמֵ֣ר הַיּוֺם בְּהַר יְהוָה יֵרָאֶה׃

Gloss
4 on_the-day the-third he-lifed Abraham DDO-eyes-his and-he-saw DDO-the-place from-distance 5 and-he-said Abraham to-servant(s)-his keep-to-you_m_pl here with-the-ass and-I and-the-boy we_will_go until-here and-we_will_worship and-we/I_will_return to-you_m_pl. 6 and-he-took Abraham DDO-wood the-burnt_offering and-he-placed on-Isaac son-his and-he-took in-hand(s)-his DDO-the-fire and-DDO-the-knife and-went-they two-those together 7 and-he-said Isaac to-Abraham father-his and-he-said father-my and-he-said behold-me son-my and-he-said behold the-fire and-the-wood and-where the-sheep to-burnt_offering 8 and-he-said Abraham Elohim he-will_see-to-him the-sheep to-burnt_offering son-my and-went-they two-them together 9 and-entered-they to-the-place that he_spoke-to-him the-Elohim and-he-built there Abraham DDO-the-altar and-he-arranged DDO-the-wood and-he-bound DDO-Isaac son-his and-he-put DDO-him on-the-altar from-above to_the-wood 10 and-he-kept Abraham DDO-hand-his and-he-took DDO-the-knife to-slaughter DDO-son-his 11 and-he-called to-him messenger YHWH from-the-heavens and-he-said Abraham Abraham and-he-said behold-me 12 and-he-said negation-keep-you hand-your to-the-boy and-negation-do-you to-him anything because now know-I that-fear Elohim you and-not withhold-you DDO-son-your DDO-only-your from-me 13 and-he-lifted Abraham DDO--eyes-his and-he-saw and-behold-ram behind he_seized in_the-thicket in-horns-his and-he-went Abraham and-he-took DDO-the-ram and-he-sacrified-him to-burnt_offering under son-his 14 and-he-spread Abraham name-the-place that YHWH he-will_see which he-will_say the-day in-mountain YHWH he-will_see

Translation
4. On the third day Abraham lifted [up] his eyes and he saw the place from [a] distance. 5. And Abraham said to his servants, "Stay here with the ass and me and the boy will go further (lit. 'until here') and we will worship. Then I/we1 will return to you." 6. And Abraham took the wood [for] the burnt offering and he gave it to Isaac, his son (lit. 'placed it on Isaac'), and he took the fire and the knife in his hand(s) and they went together (lit. 'those two together'). 7. And Isaac said to Abraham, his father, "Father (lit. 'my father')", and he said, "Here I am, my son." And he [Isaac] said, "I see (lit. 'behold') the fire and the wood, but where is the sheep for (lit. 'to') the burnt offering?" 8. And Abraham said, "God will provide the sheep (lit. 'see to him, the sheep') for the burnt offering, my son." And they went together. 9. And they came to the place which God had spoken [about] (lit. 'had spoken to him'), and he [Abraham] built there an (lit. 'the') altar. And he arranged the wood, and he bound Isaac, his son, and put him on the altar, on top of the wood [lit. 'put him on the altar from above, on the wood']. 10. And Abraham kept his hand2 and he took the knife to slaughter his son. 11. And an angel (or 'messenger') of the Lord called to him and said, "Abraham! Abraham!" and he said, "Here I am!" 12. And he said, "Do not keep your hand to the boy, and do not do anything to him. For, I now know that you fear God. You do not withhold your only son from him (lit. 'me')."3 13. and Abraham lifted up his eyes and and he saw a ram behind [him] caught by it's horns in a thicket. And Abraham went and took the ram and he sacrificed it [as a] burnt offering under his son4 14. And Abraham spread [the] name [of] that place [as] "The Lord Provides" (lit. 'the Lord will see')5, which it is said [from] that day "In the (lit. 'a mountain') mountain the Lord provides."

Notes
  1. It's hard for me to tell if the verb is singular or plural here. For my current knowledge, it seems this could just as easily read "and I will return" as it reads "and we will return".
  2. The meaning was a bit uncertain for me before consulting two different translations (New American and NRSV). It seems to mean that he kept on going through with it. At first I wondered if it meant he hesitated.
  3. I changed the translation here because it seemed more fitting to have "from him" instead of "from me." After all, it is the angel who is talking, but the offering is for God.
  4. The meaning here is a bit uncertain to me. The New American has "in place of his son", and the NRSV is quite similar. Perhaps it means that the ram is being offered up under Isaac's name? It's clear enough it's being offered instead of Isaac, but I wonder the image the Hebrew conjured up for the ancients. :P
  5. The idiom here is interesting. It's quite clear that Abraham intends to name the place, "The Lord Provides" (or "Jehova Jireh"). The image of spreading the name is quite vivid.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby Drink » 2017-05-03, 20:56

I stumbled upon this thread and decided to answer some of your questions.

księżycowy wrote:Notes
  1. It's hard for me to tell if the verb is singular or plural here. For my current knowledge, it seems this could just as easily read "and I will return" as it reads "and we will return".
  2. The meaning was a bit uncertain for me before consulting two different translations (New American and NRSV). It seems to mean that he kept on going through with it. At first I wondered if it meant he hesitated.
  3. I changed the translation here because it seemed more fitting to have "from him" instead of "from me." After all, it is the angel who is talking, but the offering is for God.
  4. The meaning here is a bit uncertain to me. The New American has "in place of his son", and the NRSV is quite similar. Perhaps it means that the ram is being offered up under Isaac's name? It's clear enough it's being offered instead of Isaac, but I wonder the image the Hebrew conjured up for the ancients. :P
  5. The idiom here is interesting. It's quite clear that Abraham intends to name the place, "The Lord Provides" (or "Jehova Jireh"). The image of spreading the name is quite vivid.


  1. It's plural. In the so-called "prefix conjugation", the prefix נ is first-person plural. The first-person singular prefix is א. So if it were singular, it would have been וְאָשׁוּבָה.
  2. Your mistake is that שלח means "send", not "keep". So וַיִּשְׁלַח אֶת־יָדוֹ means "and he extended (lit. 'sent') his hand".
  3. This is open to interpretation. Keep in mind, "he" might not necessarily refer to the angel. I would say that for a translation, you should keep it as "from me" and let the reader decide what it means.
  4. תחת is used to mean "instead of"/"in place of"/"in exchange for". As in Leviticus 24:20 עַיִן תַּחַת עַיִן שֵׁן תַּחַת שֵׁן ("an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth").
  5. This is one of your typos. It should say וַיִּקְרָא, not וַיִּקְרָם. So "And Abraham called the name of that place X, as it is said today 'at Mount X'." (I used "X" in place of the actual name to make the grammar of the sentence more apparent).
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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-05-03, 22:23

Thanks for the answers! I hope you stick around, because I'm sure to have more (including more errors :P ) along the way. :)

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby Drink » 2017-08-31, 21:52

Thought I'd let you know that I'm still looking forward to your next post here.
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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-08-31, 22:21

Thanks for that! :D
I hope to post Exodus 3:1-17 in a week or two.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-09-23, 11:30

Ok, let's get posting again!

I'll take it a few verses at a time.

Exodus 3:1-3:
וּמֺשֶׁה הָיָה רֹעֶה אֶת־צֹאן יִתְרוֺ חֹתְנוֺ כֹּהֵ֣ן מִדְיָ֑ן וַיִּנְהַג אֶת־הַצֹּאן אַחַ֣ר הַמִּדְבָּר וַיָּבֹא אֶל־הַר הָאֱלֹהִים חֹרֵבָה׃ וַיֵּרָא מַלְאַךְ יהוה אֵלָיו בְּלַבַּת־אֵשׁ מִתּ֣וֺךְ הַסְּנֶ֑ה וַיַּרְא וְהִנֵּה הַסְּנֶה בֹּעֵ֣ר בָּאֵשׁ וְהַסְּנֶה אֵינֶנּוּ אֻכָּל׃ וַיֹּ֣אמֶר מֺשֶׁה אָסֻרָה־נָּ֣א וְאֶרְאֶה אֶת־הַמַּרְאֶה הַגָּדֹל הַזֶּ֑ה מַדּוּעַ לֹא־יִבְעַר הַסְּנֶה׃

Translation:
1. Moses was shepherding the sheep of his father in law Jethro, priest of Midian, and he led the sheep out into the wilderness and he came to the mountain of the Lord, Horev. 2. And a messenger of the Lord appeared to him in the heart of a fire from the midst of a bush. And behold, he saw the bush burning in the fire, but it was not consumed. 3. And Moses said, "I must turn aside and look at this great sight. Why does this bush not burn?"

Parsing:
אֶת־צֹאןרֹעֶההָיָהוּמֺשֶׁה
DDO + noun (construct)masc. part. sing.qal affix 3 masc. sing.conj + P.N.
וַיִּנְהַגמִדְיָ֑ןכֹּהֵ֣ןחֹתְנוֺיִתְרוֺ
vav conversive qal prefix 3 masc. sing.P.N.noun (cons.)noun (cons.) + 3rd masc. poss. suffixP.N. (construct)
אֶל־הַרוַיָּבֹאהַמִּדְבָּראַחַ֣ראֶת־הַצֹּאן
prep. + noun (con.)vav conversive prefix qal 3 masc. sing.def. art. + noun (abs.)adj.DDO + def. art. + noun (abs.)
יהוהמַלְאַךְוַיֵּרָאחֹרֵבָה׃הָאֱלֹהִים
P.N.noun (cons.)vav conversive prefix nifil 3 masc. sing.P.N. + locativedef. art. + P.N
וַיַּרְאהַסְּנֶ֑המִתּ֣וֺךְבְּלַבַּת־אֵשׁאֵלָיו
vav conversive prefix qal 3 masc. sing.def. art. + noun (abs.)prep. + prep.prep + noun (cons.) + noun (abs.)prep. + 3 masc. sing. suffix
וְהַסְּנֶהבָּאֵשׁבֹּעֵ֣רהַסְּנֶהוְהִנֵּה
conj. + def. art. + noun (abs.)prep. (def.) + noun (abs.)masc. sing. part.def. art. + noun (abs.)conj. + interjection
מֺשֶׁהוַיֹּ֣אמֶראֻכָּל׃אֵינֶנּוּ
P.N.vav conversive prefix qal 3 masc. sing.puel masc. sing. part.neg. copula + 3 masc. sing. suffix
הַזֶּ֑ההַגָּדֹלאֶת־הַמַּרְאֶהוְאֶרְאֶהאָסֻרָה־נָּ֣א
def. art. + masc. sing. def. pronoundef. art + adj.DDO + def. art. + noun (abs.)vav conversive prefix qal 1 c. sing.prefix 1 c. sing. qal + cohort. + particle
הַסְּנֶה׃לֹא־יִבְעַרמַדּוּעַ
def. art. + noun (abs.)neg. + prefix qal 3 masc. sing.adverb


Notes:
אֶת־צֹאן יִתְרוֺ חֹתְנוֺ כֹּהֵ֣ן מִדְיָ֑ן
I believe that is one big, long construct chain.
Last edited by księżycowy on 2017-11-04, 11:28, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby Drink » 2017-09-27, 15:05

I'll wait until you post the parsing and notes before commenting on the translation, but I'll comment on your vocalization mistakes. The words צָאֹן, מּתּ֣וֺךְ, הָזֶּ֑ה, מַדּוַעַ have mistakes in their vocalization. On top of that, a recurring point is your misuse of the Unicode character U+05BA "HEBREW POINT HOLAM HASER FOR VAV". This character is meant to be used only when the vav is a real consonant; when it is a mater lectionis, the ordinary U+05B9 "HEBREW POINT HOLAM" should be used. For example, חֹתְנוֺ should be encoded as חֹתְנוֹ. The difference is in whether the dot is directly over the vav or a little to the right of it. A proper use of U+05BA would be in words such as מִצְוֺת (mitzvot) and עֲוֺן (avon). I also noticed you are rather inconsistent about the inclusion of the cantillation marks; is there a reason for that?
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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-09-27, 15:25

Part of the problem is the keyboard I use to type the Hebrew text on Unilang. Oddly enough, when I type the holem on a vav in my word processor it usually displays correctly. I could also be using the wrong key (as there are two for holem). Whatever the case, I'll go back over and fix it, as it wasn't intended to be that way.

I'll also double check my spellings of the words you point out. Thanks for the corrections.

As for the cantillation marks, how do you mean "inconsistent"? If you mean that I only type two of them (munach and etnachta), it's mainly because those are the only two that my textbook uses. For the moment, I intend to keep up the convention.

(Come to think of it, it usually uses ole instead of munach to mark stress usually. Iḿ still used to my other textbook it seems.)

I was honestly considering copying the text from Academic-Bible.com, but I decided to get the practice typing instead.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby Drink » 2017-09-27, 15:47

księżycowy wrote:Part of the problem is the keyboard I use to type the Hebrew text on Unilang. Oddly enough, when I type the holem on a vav in my word processor it usually displays correctly. I could also be using the wrong key (as there are two for holem).

You were using the correct holam on other letters. You should use that same one for the vav. It's possible some fonts don't distinguish between the two possible positions on a vav.

księżycowy wrote:As for the cantillation marks, how do you mean "inconsistent"? If you mean that I only type two of them (munach and etnachta), it's mainly because those are the only two that my textbook uses. For the moment, I intend to keep up the convention.

Yeah that's what I meant. I was just wondering whether there was a pattern.

księżycowy wrote:(Come to think of it, it usually uses ole instead of munach to mark stress usually. Iḿ still used to my other textbook it seems.)

Most modern Jewish texts and dictionaries (whether religious or not), when they mark stress, mark it with a meteg. I've never heard of munach used for stress, but the ole is commonly used for it.
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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-09-27, 16:03

I just perused over this thread again, and it has to be the keyboard. It wasn't until I started posting here again a little while ago that the holem has issues. I was using a different keyboard a while ago.

I'm using the SIL keyboard.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-10-19, 21:56

Ok, sorry that took so long to post (unfortunately that may be how it goes for a few months), but I just edited my post to include the parsing and note. I also fixed the spelling mistakes on the words that Drink pointed out. The holem issue remains unresolved.

I admit I'm rather shaky on the absoluteness of some of the nouns. And of course any other help/corrections would be greatly appreciated!

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby Drink » 2017-10-19, 23:02

You forgot to put the parsing of the word מדוע (and the parsings of the next two cells got shifted over). I'll let you fix that before I post my comments, so I don't give anything away.
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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-10-19, 23:35

Whoops, you're right. Fixed it.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby Drink » 2017-10-19, 23:38

Ok, here are my comments:

צאן יתרו חתנו כהן מדין is not what I would call a single long construct chain, although the technical syntactic parsing would be as one phrase צאן-[יתרו, חתנו, [כהן-מדין]], I think it's better to think of it as three separate phrases [צאן-יתרו], חתנו, [כהן-מדין]
אחר is a preposition meaning "after"; Jewish interpretations are usually that "after the wilderness" means "to the end of the wilderness", I don't personally have any better interpretations to offer
אל means "to", not "into"
הר האלקים is a construct, so הר is in the construct state
לבת אש the first word means "flame", not "heart", it's a different word, althought of the same root; the phrase actually means "a flame of fire", not "the flame of a fire", because אש is uncountable
באש definite
אסרה is not pual, but qal (with the cohortative suffix)
מדוע means "why", I'm not sure why you excluded it from your translation

A minor comment: It's nifal, not nifil, and pual, not puel.
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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-10-20, 10:12

Thanks Drink! :D I'll go through your corrections this weekend and ask any questions I have, make my comments and fix stuff as appropriate.

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Re: księżyc - Readings in Biblical Hebrew

Postby księżycowy » 2017-11-04, 11:14

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you about your comments, Drink.
Drink wrote:צאן יתרו חתנו כהן מדין is not what I would call a single long construct chain, although the technical syntactic parsing would be as one phrase צאן-[יתרו, חתנו, [כהן-מדין]], I think it's better to think of it as three separate phrases [צאן-יתרו], חתנו, [כהן-מדין]

I think that's probably a better way to understand it. Part of my confusion was the effect of חֹתְנוֺ on the "set".

אחר is a preposition meaning "after"; Jewish interpretations are usually that "after the wilderness" means "to the end of the wilderness", I don't personally have any better interpretations to offer

I understand that. I do generally try to check various scholarly translations before finalizing my translation (mostly the NRSV, NAB and JPS translations). I didn't happen to check the JPS this time, but I did check the others. There is obviously some wiggle room (in my opinion at least) with how to translate that, but I very much appreciate the Jewish view. That is one of the things I'm trying to start familiarizing myself with.

אל means "to", not "into"
הר האלקים is a construct, so הר is in the construct state

Thanks for those. I especially missed the second.

לבת אש the first word means "flame", not "heart", it's a different word, althought of the same root; the phrase actually means "a flame of fire", not "the flame of a fire", because אש is uncountable

As you say you're self it's either of the same root, or very similar root. It was my textbook that offered up both translations (citing Rashi for "heart"). Whatever the case, what's at the heart of the fire but the flame?

Scan0007a.jpeg

[It's at a bit of an angle, but all of the material is there.]

באש definite
אסרהis not pual, but qal (with the cohortative suffix)
מדוע means "why", I'm not sure why you excluded it from your translation

Thanks for these as well.

The spelling of nifal, et al, was my fault. I think I get them a little confused with some of the other binyanim as far as the English spellings.

I'll go back through and correct some of these, and try to fit "why" and "to" into my translation as I can. I also hope to post to next 3 verses by tomorrow, or at the latest early next week.
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