General Conlang Discussion

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linguoboy
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-01, 16:13

Suomalainen Varis wrote:I see. I'm not sure if I'll use it at all, because I'm not sure if stress can really makes any difference. I know that for English, certain words have the same written form, but the only difference is on the stress.

Most languages have some sort of stress, they just don't necessarily have word stress. And if they do have word stress, it's not necessarily distinctive. It may simply be fixed (as in Irish, Polish, Finnish, etc.).

The basic purpose of stress is to help a listener parse utterances. Without it, you end up with a monotonous stream of sound. If your language does not have stress of any kind, you might want to think about what other elements it has (prosodic or otherwise) which help listeners break down sentences and phrases and allow speakers to add emphasis. (In Irish, for instance, there are a lot of syntactic transformations which place emphasis on particular words and some words--notably pronouns--have distinct emphatic forms.)
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Suomalainen Varis » 2017-03-01, 16:33

Interesting. I think I'll use the fixed stress system for the first syllable instead of those rules.
So, what's the point in English about having stress systems that distinguish certain words (for example: OVERflow, overFLOW) if English has a SVO? Isn't that possible to recognize the word only by its position in a sentence?

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-01, 17:04

Suomalainen Varis wrote:So, what's the point in English about having stress systems that distinguish certain words (for example: OVERflow, overFLOW) if English has a SVO? Isn't that possible to recognize the word only by its position in a sentence?

1. Languages are not teological.
2. Languages have a lot of built-in redundancy.
3. As I've said already, stress is one of the ways listeners recognise where the sentences even are.
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How to use toki pona while avoiding its "riddle" aspect?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-11-10, 11:08

Toki pona is a constructed language containing less than 150 words.
Many of them have got multiple and very broad-scope meanings.

For the purpose of expressing more complex ideas, compound words are used.
So alcohol for example (mentioning it for language purposes only) would be called "crazy water". But of course this is (by design) vague to a certain extent.

There are some aspects of toki pona I really appreciate. It's just that at many times, reading anything written in it can have a major "riddle" aspect.

This is an explanatory example of a toki pona text (written in very simple English, and one wouldn't necessarily express it in toki pona the very, very same way, although the underlying idea still is the same).

"Today I eat some food. Its color is green red. I also drink some drink. It is nice. It is hot. Hot food made the drink. I go somewhere. A place with trees. Nice animal move".

These are some possible interpretations of that example.

"Today I eat some food. Its color is green red." --> Anything with a brown color [toki pona doesn't contain a specific word for it, instead, green and red are combined], it could be bread, chocolate, biscuits, or anything else.

"I also drink some drink. It is nice. It is hot. Hot food made the drink." --> Here, at least there is a high probability of that drink being tea. But what remains is which tea it was. Was it the one that literally and primarily is called tea? Or was it anything that is called tea in a broader sense, while not being the black or green one? And if yes, what was it? There are countless possibilities.

But it also could have been hot chocolate, coffee, guarana, or possibly even hot milk...

"I go somewhere. A place with trees." --> Park? Forrest? Any other place where there are some trees?

"Nice animal move". --> Squirrel? Cat? Bird?

But there also are many other possible interpretations. So I wonder if there is a way to use toki pona without that "riddle" solving aspect. I.e. to simply communicate. And I do know that this question is a difficult one, it even is more difficult than it seems at first glance.
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How useful is Solresol?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-11-10, 11:59

How useful is Solresol for the purpose of communicating with others who do not have any (high level advancement) common language?
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby razlem » 2018-11-15, 3:13

I know of absolutely no one who uses Solresol. You might find one or two enthusiasts online, but I don't think there's a living community :/
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-11-16, 7:29

razlem wrote:I know of absolutely no one who uses Solresol. You might find one or two enthusiasts online, but I don't think there's a living community :/


I also don't know of any big community of Solresol or anything like that.
But I still asked, because "not knowing if there is one" isn't the same as "knowing that there isn't one" :). Besides, at least to me, Solresol still is, to a certain extent, among the Major Historical Significance Conlangs even today. If it wasn't, then maybe I wouldn't even have heard of it.
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Re: How to use toki pona while avoiding its "riddle" aspect?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-11-16, 7:32

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Toki pona is a constructed language containing less than 150 words.
Many of them have got multiple and very broad-scope meanings.[...]
But there also are many other possible interpretations. So I wonder if there is a way to use toki pona without that "riddle" solving aspect. I.e. to simply communicate. And I do know that this question is a difficult one, it even is
more difficult than it seems at first glance.


Someone I recently talked to provided a big puzzle piece. (Or if the idea of some puzzle pieces being bigger than others sounds a bit strange to some of you, you could also think of it as Several Puzzle Pieces Joint Together :)).

This person told me that this riddle aspect is there _by design_ and that it cannot be avoided, or something similar.

Puzzle piece of mine: Fully agreeing that in many situations, this is the case. But we got other ways of communication, too, that can be used 'longside toki pona :).
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First main project: The language called communication [now in "no more output without input" mode]

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