TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-17, 3:57

Osias wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Meu Deus, achava que você estava falando sério! :D

I was trying to say "...that you were serious", which works in English. Does this work in Portuguese? How would I say that?
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-17, 4:05

I didn't do any new words on Sunday for Anki, only review. Anki for Jan. 16:

[flag=]fr[/flag] cinquante fifty
[flag=]fr[/flag] entourer to circle
[flag=]fr[/flag] trente-sept thirty-seven
[flag=]fr[/flag] le souffle breath
[flag=]fr[/flag] la porte door; gate
[flag=]fr[/flag] charger to load; to charge

[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a preguiça lazines; sloth
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a massa pasta; dough
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] o sanduíche sandwich
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a escada stair
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] cozinhar to cook
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a colher spoon
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a vaca cow

[flag=]sv[/flag] men but
[flag=]sv[/flag] hej då bye; goodbye
[flag=]sv[/flag] (ett) äpple -- äpplet (an) apple -- the apple
[flag=]sv[/flag] (en) soldat -- soldaten (a) soldier -- the soldier

[flag=]ta-lk[/flag] பட்டம் kite
[flag=]ta-lk[/flag] இந்த this [dem. adj.]
[flag=]ta-lk[/flag] போ go [verb root]
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Saim » 2017-01-17, 6:54

dEhiN wrote:I was trying to say "...that you were serious", which works in English. Does this work in Portuguese? How would I say that?


I dunno about Portuguese, but in Catalan and Spanish it works like this:

Catalan - Spanish - English
Pensava que ere(t)s seriós. - Pensaba que eras serio - I thought/used to think you were serious (i.e. a serious person).
(Em) pensava que ho deies seriosament (the Hispanicism en serio is also common)! - (Me) pensaba que lo decías en serio! - I thought you were being serious!
Ho dius seriosament (en serio)? - Lo dices en serio? - Are you being serious?

Osias's correction seems to suggest that Portuguese works in much the same way as Catalan and Spanish; i.e. being serious means having the characteristics of a serious person, unlike in English where it means to not be joking. So in Portuguese you need the verb falar to show that it's about what a given person is saying, not about what they're like as a person.

Here are some examples taken from Google:

Cuando te conocí pensaba que eras serio.
When I met you I thought you were serious (probably meaning sombre/standoffish).

Porque pensé que eras diferente, jamas pensé que me ibas a mentir así yo, pensaba que eras “serio”.
Because I thought you were different, I never thought you would lie to me this way, I thought you were serious (i.e. more serious than that, not playing games).

Te seguía porque pensaba que eras serio, pero veo que eres un chiste!
I used to follow you because I thought you were a serious person, but (now) I see that you're (just) a joke!

No puedo creer como un hombre maduro como tu diga esto a otro hombre,das asco pensaba que eras serio y las gilipollezes que has escrito [...]
I can't believe a grown man like you would say this to another man, you disgust me, I thought you were a serious (i.e. respectable, grown-up) person, but the stupid shit you wrote [...]

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Osias » 2017-01-17, 9:27

dEhiN wrote:
Osias wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Meu Deus, achava que você estava falando sério! :D

I was trying to say "...that you were serious",

Eu sei.

which works in English.
Sim

Does this work in Portuguese?
Não

How would I say that?

Daquele jeito ali

PS: Claro que a frase "você estava sério" existe, mas é outra coisa, é sobre a atitude ou expressão facial, não sobre o que foi dito.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-18, 4:07

Anki for Jan. 17:

[flag=]fr[/flag] soixante sixty
[flag=]fr[/flag] huit eight
[flag=]fr[/flag] zéro zero
[flag=]fr[/flag] quatre-vingt-huit eighty-eight
[flag=]fr[/flag] soixante et un sixty-one
[flag=]fr[/flag] soixante-sept sixty-seven
[flag=]fr[/flag] cinquant-deux fifty-two
[flag=]fr[/flag] la coupe bowl; cup; cross-section
[flag=]fr[/flag] ayant [pres. part. of 'avoir']
[flag=]fr[/flag] donc so; therefore

[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a cobra snake
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] subir to go up
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] os óculos eyeglasses
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a escola school
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] escolar/escolares (relating to) school [adj., sing./pl.]
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a cana-de-açúcar sugarcane [used when talking about the plant, or in history books]
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] o cano pipe [used for plumbing]

[flag=]sv[/flag] din your [sing.]
[flag=]sv[/flag] var was/were [past tense ind.]

[flag=]ta-lk[/flag] கையை hand [acc.]
Last edited by dEhiN on 2017-01-18, 8:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-18, 4:13

It's getting hard to stay focused on only 4 languages. I'm tempted to unsuspend all my other Anki cards, as well as start learning Arabic, Finnish, and maybe Estonian.

One reason for this is while chatting with a few language learners on Whatsapp, I came to the realization that I'm not terribly interested in learning only one or a few languages to a fluent C1/C2 type of level. Sure it would be nice to eventually get there. But I like the act of learning languages: I like learning different phonological systems and different types of grammar structures. If I had been aware of all this earlier on in life, I would've definitely become a linguist. Anyway, so that all means I like learning multiple languages at once. I think the struggle I've had is 1) getting influenced by other language learners (in particular the YT polyglots and their followers) that the goal of learning a language is fluency, and 2) feeling frustrated, when studying many languages at once, that I'm not really progressing in any one language.

For now I'm going to stick with Anki, and perhaps try to start some of the resources I listed for my TAC languages. And I'll figure out later if I want to add other languages.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-18, 4:21

All of us go through this. This is why we have a wanderlust thread. But really, any progress you've made at any point counts for something. I'm pretty sure you already know a great deal more about language and of languages than most people, for example. I don't think even most UniLangers have attempted quite as many (or as wide a variety of) languages as you have.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-18, 4:41

vijayjohn wrote:All of us go through this. This is why we have a wanderlust thread. But really, any progress you've made at any point counts for something. I'm pretty sure you already know a great deal more about language and of languages than most people, for example. I don't think even most UniLangers have attempted quite as many (or as wide a variety of) languages as you have.

That's true! Thanks for the encouragement. I think, to be honest, deep down I would rather study like you do and have a list of 10-20 languages and keep going through them. Rather that than work on 1-2 or even 3-5 until I get to C2. Perhaps I just need to figure out a way to make sure I'm progressing through those 10-20; my experience in the past says that it's easy to get stuck just trying to learn vocabulary and not learn grammar or practice making sentences.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-18, 5:07

dEhiN wrote:I think, to be honest, deep down I would rather study like you do and have a list of 10-20 languages and keep going through them. Rather that than work on 1-2 or even 3-5 until I get to C2.

Don't forget, though, that the way I study languages now is a product of having studied languages for almost my whole life, not the way I always studied languages. When I was first starting out, I studied as much as I could from a couple of first-year middle/high school French textbooks (sure, I'd dabble in other languages a little bit, but only dabble - like I'd listen to songs in them or learn that they existed or something, or maybe even learn a few words of them, but not actually dedicate any effort to studying them) and this CD used for teaching French, Spanish, and German (and English). Then I moved on to learning as much German as I could from that CD plus maybe a little from my dad's first-year(?) university German textbook, and finally moved on to Spanish with that CD before getting some first-year textbooks for German and Spanish as well.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Saim » 2017-01-18, 16:39

dEhiN wrote:Thanks for the encouragement. I think, to be honest, deep down I would rather study like you do and have a list of 10-20 languages and keep going through them. Rather that than work on 1-2 or even 3-5 until I get to C2.


Would you want to get to C2 level in any language at all, or are you more interested in the study process for its own sake?

dEhiN wrote:Sure it would be nice to eventually get there.


If I may, I just don't think it's possible to get to C2 level through this method. Due to diminishing returns each level takes much more time than the previous one. Also at the earlier levels intensive study is important because you forget things more quickly, so doing more than a dozen beginner-level languages at once will inevitably leave you an eternal false beginner.

Of course, it really depends on what your motivation in learning languages is. In my experience being able to enjoy native media without a huge amount of effort is much more enjoyable than reading textbooks or memorising flaschards, but maybe other language learners will disagree.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Dormouse559 » 2017-01-18, 17:45

dEhiN wrote:[flag=]fr[/flag] cinquante-deux fifty-two
Out of the 20-90 words, only "vingt" (and "quatre-vingts") doesn't end in <e>.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Antea » 2017-01-18, 18:03

Dehin, I understand, because I also wanderlust a lot. But, at least in my case, if I want to improve in one language, I have to learn it "intensively". And even then, I need time to get to the next level. :hmm: It's true that sometimes I also feel a little "burn out" in relation with the language I'm learning intensively; in that case I try to do some "maintenance work" of my other languages, and then I get back to the first one.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Osias » 2017-01-18, 21:19

dEhiN wrote:[flag=]pt-br[/flag] os óculos eyeglasses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyqADBtxnPo
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-19, 10:37

Dormouse559 wrote:
dEhiN wrote:[flag=]fr[/flag] cinquante-deux fifty-two
Out of the 20-90 words, only "vingt" (and "quatre-vingts") doesn't end in <e>.

That was a typo.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-19, 19:42

Thanks for the input Saim, Antea, and Vijay. As I was reflecting on what you guys wrote, it struck me that I was only thinking of two possible extremes: I either had to 1) study one or two (or maybe a few) languages from A1 to C2, or 2) study a bunch of languages simultaneously, even if they are all at the beginner level.

And I know that I don't want to stick with one language from A1 to C2. So I would try the only other extreme I saw as a possibility, and get frustrated because, as Saim said, I was being an eternal false beginner. But I never saw a middle ground, which is I guess what Vijay basically did. I could focus on one language for a short period of time, or until I get to something like an A2 or B1 level, and then add another language.

This approach actually changes things, and I'm going to re-evaluate what I'm going to do for my TAC.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Osias » 2017-01-19, 19:49

Espero que você continue TACando português.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-19, 19:55

Saim wrote:Would you want to get to C2 level in any language at all, or are you more interested in the study process for its own sake?
...
it really depends on what your motivation in learning languages is.

I wanted to respond to this separately. I think my motivation for language learning is a mix of learning about different language themselves - how they work, the various phonological and morphological systems that exist - and being able to connect with people using something precious to them - their own language. I first started learning other languages in 2011, when I wanted to relearn the French I had learned in public school and then forgotten. At least that's what I told myself; I knew that based on that goal, it would be good to focus only on French and I was already thinking about how it is a long journey from beginner to fluent. But in practice I looked for both French and Spanish language exchange partners, in order to also start learning Spanish because, I always wanted to learn Spanish. And ever since then I've had a hard time focusing on just one language.

I'm aware of course that if I want to connect with people who speak another language, the best way is to be fluent in it. But I think three things stop me from focusing on one language to fluency: 1) how long it will take to become fluent, 2) learning only one language to fluency will limit how many people I can connect with*, and 3) I also like learning about different languages themselves. So I guess it's a mix of what interests me and my laziness.

*This could be based on where I live: a multicultural, global city whose main language is English. Therefore, almost anyone I connect with using another language will also know English; so I can switch back to English whenever I get stuck. I'm pretty sure that if I moved to a place where the main language wasn't English, I would put more effort into becoming at least conversationally fluent in that language.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-19, 20:00

Osias wrote:Espero que você continue TACando português.

Sim, provavelmente! Eu gosto muito de que* você creu o verbo TACar! :rotfl:

*É correto "eu gosto muito de que"?
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Osias » 2017-01-19, 20:37

Sim, mas não é "creu", que é o passado de "crer", believe.

Seria "criou", mas pelo tempo verbal era pra ser "tenha criado".

Eu gosto muito de que você tenha criado o verbo TACar!

ou
Eu gostei muito de que você criou o verbo TACar!
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Saim » 2017-01-20, 4:40

dEhiN wrote:And I know that I don't want to stick with one language from A1 to C2. So I would try the only other extreme I saw as a possibility, and get frustrated because, as Saim said, I was being an eternal false beginner. But I never saw a middle ground, which is I guess what Vijay basically did. I could focus on one language for a short period of time, or until I get to something like an A2 or B1 level, and then add another language.


I think this is a great way to look at it. Mastery is hard - I don't know of anyone getting to C2 in anything in less than a couple of years, and that includes a lot of time spent in the country. Intermediate levels are extremely useful and you often don't have to go much further if you don't have an existential need for the language. A rusty intermediate level is also much easier to revive than the basics - in the first case you feel like you're getting to know an old friend again, whereas in the latter you feel like you're constantly treading the same ground.

Luca Lampariello said it best here (4:30):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NySKjOTbHsU

"The stretch between B2 and C1 is huge compared with the one from beginner to intermediate. ... It's a really long stretch, but the difference is that when you reach B2 and you're on top of the mountain, everything is like a looong slope, but it's easier than climbing up to the top. ... It's not as difficult as before because you start enjoying and using the language."

Image

Studying at the B levels and at the A levels is quite different, as the former has a lot to do with direct exposure to native resources (i.e. media).

dEhiN wrote:*This could be based on where I live: a multicultural, global city whose main language is English. Therefore, almost anyone I connect with using another language will also know English; so I can switch back to English whenever I get stuck. I'm pretty sure that if I moved to a place where the main language wasn't English, I would put more effort into becoming at least conversationally fluent in that language.


Definitely, it depends on your needs and interests. The good thing is that if you ever do move to another country, already having an intermediate level (especially B2) in it really puts in you in the best place to take advantage of the fact that you'll be able to use the language on a daily basis and in varied situations.


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