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etymonline.com wrote:pantaloons (n.)
1660s, "kind of tights" (originally a French fashion and execrated as such by late 17c. English writers), associated with Pantaloun (1580s), silly old man character in Italian comedy who wore tight trousers over his skinny legs, from Italian Pantalone, originally San Pantaleone, Christian martyr, a popular saint in Venice (Pantaleone in the comedies represents the Venetian). The name is of Greek origin and means "all-compassionate" (or, according to Klein, "entirely lion"). Applied to tight long trousers (replacing knee-breeches) by 1798; pants is a shortened form first recorded 1840.
vijayjohn wrote:Also, one time, in a book in Malayalam about the variety of Malayalam spoken by Dalits in Kerala, I found a footnote about a code language used among businesspeople in Kerala to this day. Here's something curious I find about it. First of all, in (standard, I guess) Malayalam:
[ˈmuːn̪n̪ɯ] 'three'
[kaːl] 'quarter'
[mʊˈkaːl] 'three quarters'
But apparently, in this code language:
[kɔˈɭət͡ʃi] 'three rupees'
[mʊˈkɔɭət͡ʃi] 'three-fourths of a rupee' (not nine rupees!)
dEhiN wrote:I don't find [mʊˈkɔɭət͡ʃi] surprising because I would analyze that as [mʊˈkaːl] + [ət͡ʃi] (which I guess is the Dalit Mayalam word for rupee?).
vijayjohn wrote:dEhiN wrote:I don't find [mʊˈkɔɭət͡ʃi] surprising because I would analyze that as [mʊˈkaːl] + [ət͡ʃi] (which I guess is the Dalit Mayalam word for rupee?).
It's not Dalit Malayalam; it's traders' jargon or something like that that I found in a footnote in a book that happens to be on Dalit Malayalam. And no, that's not the word for 'rupee' in that jargon, either. Plus then you'd have to account for /aː/ changing to [ɔ] and the /l/ randomly becoming retroflex.
dEhiN wrote:Well I guess without more information, I would chalk it up to changes with concatenation or affixation.
Koko wrote:What is the word for rupee in this jargon, then? My guess is [lət͡ʃi]? (or even [ɭət͡ʃi]?)
In any case, I see no reason [a:] becoming [ɔ] is any different from [uː] becoming [ʊ].
Koko wrote:Have you heard of a language called Swedish (Danish too)? It's got a letter å? It's your [ɔ] and comes from old <aa> /aː/.
Not to mention, [ɔ] is technically mid-low, and [ʊ] near-high. Neither of the two vowel pairs are on the same height.
vijayjohn wrote:Koko wrote:In any case, I see no reason [a:] becoming [ɔ] is any different from [uː] becoming [ʊ].
Because both [uː] and [ʊ] are high vowels whereas [a:] is a low vowel while [ɔ] is not.
dEhiN wrote:vijayjohn wrote:Koko wrote:In any case, I see no reason [a:] becoming [ɔ] is any different from [uː] becoming [ʊ].
Because both [uː] and [ʊ] are high vowels whereas [a:] is a low vowel while [ɔ] is not.
Simple: [a:] retracts to [ɑ:] then becomes rounded and raises to [ɔ:]. Then in regular speech the length shortens to become [ɔ]. This could actually be plausible in the case of [mʊˈkɔɭət͡ʃi] from [mʊˈka:l] since you already have a preceding high rounded vowel. The tongue moves less - 2 small movements instead of 3 plus the lips changing shape.
One more entry in the grand English-to-French saga:Serafín wrote:That also happened to "riding coat" > la redingote [laʁødæ̃gɔt].
Dormouse559 wrote:One more entry in the grand English-to-French saga:Serafín wrote:.
"buggy" > boghei /bɔgɛ/
The OED wrote:According to the legal tradition, found in print shortly after 1700, culprit was not originally a word, but a fortuitous or ignorant running together of two words (the fusion being made possible by the abbreviated writing of legal records), viz. Anglo-Norman culpable or Latin culpabilis ‘guilty’, abbreviated cul., and prit or prist = Old French prest ‘ready’. It is supposed that when the prisoner had pleaded ‘Not guilty’, the Clerk of the Crown replied with ‘Culpable: prest d'averrer nostre bille,’, i.e. ‘Guilty: [and I am] ready to aver our indictment’; that this reply was noted on the roll in the form cul. prist, etc.; and that, at a later time, after the disuse of Law French, this formula was mistaken for an appellation addressed to the accused.
Dormouse559 wrote:I just remembered one I learned in high school. "beef steak" > bifteck
Michael wrote:Our verb pazzià "to play" comes from the Greek παίζω pézo. We only use the native equivalent jucà in reference to sports.
Serafín wrote:French couci-couça 'more or less' comes from an alteration of couci-couci influenced by comme ci comme ça, and couci-couci itself was originally used in the expression faire cosi-cosi 'to fuck', itself a 17th century borrowing from Italian in turn.
Koko wrote:Speaking of Japanese, ジーパン /d͡ʑiipaɴ/… for jeans. ?? I mean, I got the explanation of "jean pants," but where dat first n go? It's not like Japanese randomly just drops its nasals! And even if I get an explanation on the disappearance of that n, who says "jean pants" anyway? And how'd it find its way into the Japanese language instead of ジーンズ?*
Apparently it's wasei eigo That explains it
* Kay, maybe it exists alongside ジーンズ since that came up as a suggestion as soon as I got to ジーン〜
Merriam-Webster wrote:Kickshaw began its career in the late 16th century as a borrowing from the French quelque chose - literally, "something." In line with the French pronunciation of the day, the "l" was dropped and the word was anglicized as "kickshaws" or "kickshoes." English speakers soon lost all consciousness of the word’s French origin and, by taking "kickshaws" as plural, created the new singular noun "kickshaw."
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