Udmurt (удмурт кыл)

h34
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Re: Udmurt (Удмурт кыл)

Postby h34 » 2023-02-24, 6:04

Linguaphile wrote:Vuode and voodi are generally considered to be descended from Proto-Finnic *voota "hide, pelt", which is thought to be descended from Proto-Baltic (*ād- "skin", modern Latvian āda, modern Lithuanian óda). If so then in Finnic it shifted from "hide, pelt" (Finnish vuota) to "bed" (Finnish vuode, Estonian voodi) while in Saami it seems to have shifted from the "hide, pelt, skin" meaning to "leather shoe strap" (Pite vuodda) and "leather sole (of a shoe)" (Kildin вуэдт) and from there shifted further to "bottom, base [of something]" (Northern Saami vuođđu, Lule vuodo, Inari vuáđu, Skolt vuâđđ).
I posted these and a few more (and others from this same video) here.

Thanks for these explanations and for the link to the post on the "Cognates and semantic shifts" thread!

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Virankannos
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Re: Udmurt (Удмурт кыл)

Postby Virankannos » 2023-02-27, 16:51

Linguaphile wrote:Vuode and voodi are generally considered to be descended from Proto-Finnic *voota "hide, pelt", which is thought to be descended from Proto-Baltic (*ād- "skin", modern Latvian āda, modern Lithuanian óda). If so then in Finnic it shifted from "hide, pelt" (Finnish vuota) to "bed" (Finnish vuode, Estonian voodi) while in Saami it seems to have shifted from the "hide, pelt, skin" meaning to "leather shoe strap" (Pite vuodda) and "leather sole (of a shoe)" (Kildin вуэдт) and from there shifted further to "bottom, base [of something]" (Northern Saami vuođđu, Lule vuodo, Inari vuáđu, Skolt vuâđđ).
I posted these and a few more (and others from this same video) here.

The cognate of SoS våarome ~ NoS vuođđu ~ LuS vuodo ~ InS vuáđu ~ SkS vuâđđ ~ KiS вуэдт in Pite is vuoddo 'base, bottom'. The word for shoe straps or shoelaces is a different lexeme: SoS voedtege ~ PiS vuodda ~ NoS vuotta ~ InS vuodâ ~ SkS vuõdd (< Proto-Germanic *wanduz 'rod, switch, stick; barrier made of sticks, fence')

Linguaphile
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Re: Udmurt (Удмурт кыл)

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-02-27, 18:22

Virankannos wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Vuode and voodi are generally considered to be descended from Proto-Finnic *voota "hide, pelt", which is thought to be descended from Proto-Baltic (*ād- "skin", modern Latvian āda, modern Lithuanian óda). If so then in Finnic it shifted from "hide, pelt" (Finnish vuota) to "bed" (Finnish vuode, Estonian voodi) while in Saami it seems to have shifted from the "hide, pelt, skin" meaning to "leather shoe strap" (Pite vuodda) and "leather sole (of a shoe)" (Kildin вуэдт) and from there shifted further to "bottom, base [of something]" (Northern Saami vuođđu, Lule vuodo, Inari vuáđu, Skolt vuâđđ).
I posted these and a few more (and others from this same video) here.

The cognate of SoS våarome ~ NoS vuođđu ~ LuS vuodo ~ InS vuáđu ~ SkS vuâđđ ~ KiS вуэдт in Pite is vuoddo 'base, bottom'. The word for shoe straps or shoelaces is a different lexeme: SoS voedtege ~ PiS vuodda ~ NoS vuotta ~ InS vuodâ ~ SkS vuõdd (< Proto-Germanic *wanduz 'rod, switch, stick; barrier made of sticks, fence')

Thanks!

h34
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Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Udmurt (Удмурт кыл)

Postby h34 » 2023-03-05, 20:46

Yes/no questions

If a sentence doesn't contain a specific question word, the question is formed by attaching the interrogative particle to the part of the sentence the question refers to.

Тон¹ эмъясь²? Are you¹ a doctor²?
Тон¹ эмъясь²? Are you¹ a/the doctor²?

– Тон¹ мадьяр²? Are you¹ Hungarian²?
– Бен¹, мадьяр². Yes¹, (I am) Hungarian².

– Тон¹ дышетскись²? Are you¹ a student²?
– Ӧвӧл¹, мон² дышетскись³ ӧвӧл⁴. No¹, I² am not⁴ a student³.

The position of the interrogative particle and the word order of the sentence may vary from dialect to dialect:

Отын¹ шур² вал³? Was³ there¹ a river²?
~ Отын¹ вал² шур³? Was² there¹ a river³?
Матын-а¹ вал² шур³? Was² a/the river³ nearby¹?
~ Шур¹ матын-а² вал³? Was³ the river¹ nearby²?
Шур¹ ӧй² вал-а³ матын⁴? Was³n't² the river¹ nearby⁴?
~ Шур¹ матын² ӧй³ вал-а⁴? Was⁴n't³ the river¹ nearby²?

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h34
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Re: Udmurt (Удмурт кыл)

Postby h34 » 2023-03-08, 23:34

Some adjectives with antonyms

бадӟым – пичи large, big, great – small
бадӟым бӧлет a large room
бадӟым пыдчиньы big toe
бадӟым гожъясьчи a great writer
пичи бӧлет a small room

выль – вуж, вашкала new – old, ancient
выль выж a new bridge
выль идеяос new ideas
выль толэзь new moon
вуж машина an old car
вуж картошка an old potato
вашкала кар old town, ancient town
вашкала грек Ancient Greek

егит, пинал – пересь, мӧйы young – old
егит/пинал мурт a young person
пересь мурт an old person

умой, ӟеч – урод good– bad
умой эмъясь a good doctor
умой малпан a good idea
Умой аппетит! Enjoy your meal! Bon appetit!
умой иворъёс good news
Бур ӝытэн! Good evening!
урод куазь bad weather
урод качество bad quality

лякыт, ӟеч – урод good – bad, evil, malicious
лякыд сюлэм a good (kind) heart
лякыд пальпотон a kind smile
ӟеч сям a good character
урод сям a bad character

дуно – дунтэм expensive, dear – cheap
дуно кузьымъёс expensive gifts
дуно эше a dear friend
дунтэм дӥськут cheap clothes
Гуртын улыны дунтэмгес. Life/Living in the countryside is cheaper.

чебер – чебертэм, урод beautiful – ugly
чебер йырси beautiful hair
чебер инкуазь beautiful nature
чебер крезьгур beautiful music
урод корка an ugly house
урод сям an ugly character (trait), an ugly habit

югыт, яркыт, жинг(ы)рес – пеймыт bright – dark
югыт гужем уйёс bright summer nights
югыт синъёс bright eyes
жингрес куара a bright voice
пеймыт уй a dark night
пеймыт синъёс dark eyes

паськыт – сюбег broad, wide – narrow
паськыт сюрес a wide road
паськыт мынян a wide smile
сюбег ульча a narrow street

ӝужыт – лапег tall, high – low
ӝужыт гурезь a tall mountain
ӝужыт куара a bright voice
лапег ӝӧк a low table

мур – лазег deep – shallow
мур шур a deep river
мур ум deep sleep
мур кризис a deep crisis
мур куара a deep voice
лазег шур a shallow river
лазег ву shallow water

кузь – вакчи long – short
кузь сюрес a long road
кузь йырси long hair
вакчи йырси short hair
вакчи статья a short article
вакчи дыр short time
вакчи сӥзьыл нунал a short autumn day

кужмо, зол – ляб strong – weak
кужмо егит пиосмурт a strong young man
кужмо тӧл strong wind
кужмо/зол куара a strong voice

шуныт – кезьыт warm – cold
шуныт ву warm water
шуныт куазь warm weather
кезьыт ву cold water
кезьыт куазь cold weather
кезьыт тӧл cold wind

тыршись – азьтэм diligent – lazy
тыршись муш diligent bee
тыршись дышетскись a diligent student
Азьтэм¹ киос² муртлэсь³ ужамзэ⁴ ярато⁵. Lazy¹ hands² love⁵ the work⁴ of others³.

дун, чылкыт – кырсь, нӧд, дэри clean, pure – dirty
дун ву clean water
дун-чылкыт ву clean/clear/pure water
чылкыт зарни pure gold

лечыт – ныж sharp – blunt
лечыт пурт a sharp knife
ныж пурт a blunt knife

ӝог – дыртыштэм, каллен quick, fast – slow
ӝог выросъёс quick movements
Висисьлэн виртэтчанэз ӝог. The patient has a rapid pulse.
дыртӥсьтэм мынон a slow movement
каллен вальс slow waltz

зол, шара – шыпыт loud – silent
зол куара a loud voice
Крезьгур¹ укыр² шара³ вал⁴. The music¹ was⁴ too² loud³.
шыпыт куара a low voice
шыпыт тӧл a slight wind
шыпыт шумпотон quiet joy
шыпыт оскон ≈ silent hope, silent belief
Малы¹ тон² туннэ³ сокем⁴ шыпыт⁵? Why¹ are you² so⁴ quiet⁵ today³?

вазь – бер early – late
вазь ӵукна early in the morning
Вазь¹ на². (It's) still² early¹.
бер ӝыт late in the evening
Туж¹ бер² ини³. (It's) already³ too¹ late².

матын – кыдёкын nearby, close – far away

ӧжыт – трос little, few – much, many

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Last edited by h34 on 2023-03-18, 8:11, edited 2 times in total.

h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Udmurt (Удмурт кыл)

Postby h34 » 2023-03-13, 21:55


h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Udmurt (Удмурт кыл)

Postby h34 » 2023-03-18, 8:04

Adjectives: comparative

The comparative is marked with the suffix -гес (rarely -гем):

лапег low
лапег-гес lower
бадӟым big
бадӟым-гес bigger
ӧжыт little, few
ӧжыт-гес less, fewer
трос much, many
трос-гес more

The object of the comparison can be expressed either in the ablative form or by adding the postposition сярысь (concerning, about):

Скал ыжлэсь бадӟымгес. A cow is bigger than a sheep. (lit. ≈ cow of-sheep bigger)
Скал ыж сярысь бадӟымгес. A cow is bigger than a sheep. (lit. ≈ cow sheep-about bigger)

If the object of the comparison is indicated, the comparative suffix can be omitted:

Скал ыжлэсь бадӟым. A cow is bigger than a sheep. (lit. ≈ cow of-sheep big)
Скал ыж сярысь бадӟым. A cow is bigger than a sheep. (lit. ≈ cow sheep-about big)

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