Linguaphile wrote:Apparently this is a Eurasian Wanderwort, with similar words in languages as diverse as Turkish (kodak "home")
voron wrote:Linguaphile wrote:Apparently this is a Eurasian Wanderwort, with similar words in languages as diverse as Turkish (kodak "home")
Wikipedia may be wrong, there is no "kodak" in Turkish, at least not in the modern standard Turkish. The most extensive Turkish dictionary is TDK, and it does not have this word.
http://sozluk.gov.tr/
There is "konak" though with the meaning "residence, mansion".
Linguaphile wrote:
There's also kottoo 'to home', koii 'of home', koju 'to home', kotu 'at home' (dial.), kottu 'from home' (dial.), kotto 'from home' (dial.), kodihe 'to home', and so on. There tend to be a lot of irregular forms for this word in Finnic languages (using stem changes in place of case endings). If I had listed all of the changes that occur with case forms or dialect forms that I came across, the list would have been enormous! I just decided to list the most common nominative form for each language (for each meaning, so for Finnish koti and kota) and leave it at that.
Naava wrote:Am I not allowed to add to your lists? I thought it's interesting we have the same form as Võro.
Linguaphile wrote:Naava wrote:Am I not allowed to add to your lists? I thought it's interesting we have the same form as Võro.
Oh, of course you are, and yes it is! I'm so sorry if I gave that impression. It's just that kotona is one of the (few ) Finnish words I know without looking it up, and I was just explaining why I hadn't included it in the list myself to begin with.
Or short illatives: kodo, kottoo, koju, kuodāj. Or adverbs with elative meanings: & kotoa, kodunt, kuondõ, although many languages just use the actual elative instead: kotost, kodust, kuondõst. Not to even get started on dialects and their variations and declensions and variations of declensions: kotii, kotto, kodoje, etc., of which I'm certain Finnish has many.
And so on - and since for some languages, my sources only list the nominative forms, there are surely many more that I haven't come across that would be interesting to compare, but I don't know them and haven't found them.
I mean that really, I could go on forever and it'd be fun, but what's the point? I don't even think many people here are all that interested, and although I do this for fun because it's interesting to me, I really should probably be doing more productive things with my time.
Linguaphile wrote:*Uduvihm: literally "fog-rain" or "mist-rain". Saagpakk's dictionary calls uduvihm Scotch mist.
Naava wrote:
Where did you get abundance/sufficiency? Wiktionary does translate it as 'abundance' but marks it as obsolete. There's also the derived word kylläinen that means 'full (stomach); saturated (chemistry)', so it looks like kyllä has meant 'abundance' at some point - but how about sufficiency? Where did that come from?
Eesti etümoloogiasõnaraamat wrote:küll (mingit väidet eriliselt toonitav sõna)
● soome kyllä 'jah; küllus, piisavus'
Naava wrote:Linguaphile wrote:*Uduvihm: literally "fog-rain" or "mist-rain". Saagpakk's dictionary calls uduvihm Scotch mist.
That sounds more like tihku to me, although eki.ee translates vihma as 'uduvihm' and wiktionary translates it as 'drizzle' with no mention of wind and even gives tihku as its synonym.
Linguaphile wrote:Naava wrote:
Where did you get abundance/sufficiency? Wiktionary does translate it as 'abundance' but marks it as obsolete. There's also the derived word kylläinen that means 'full (stomach); saturated (chemistry)', so it looks like kyllä has meant 'abundance' at some point - but how about sufficiency? Where did that come from?
I got it from Eesti etümoloogiasõnaraamat (ETY):Eesti etümoloogiasõnaraamat wrote:küll (mingit väidet eriliselt toonitav sõna)
● soome kyllä 'jah; küllus, piisavus'
Linguaphile wrote:Naava, please, check my translations for Finnish sumea. It has more meanings than any of the other words and that makes me suspicious of it.
Linguaphile wrote:sumu thick fog that reduces visibility (per Naava: visibility less than 1km)
Linguaphile wrote: ilmi public, out in the open; obviously, completely; (in compounds) completely, very, real
Linguaphile wrote: ilmne obvious, apparent, clear (> ilmselt obviously, apparently, etc.)
Linguaphile wrote:ilmai gratuitous, free of charge
Naava wrote:FYI, more words that were derived from kyllä:
kyllin, kylliksi - enough
----> yllin kyllin - abundantly, plentifully, enough and to spare
kyllyys, kylläisyys - being full of something ; satiation, saturation (the first one especially in the phrase sydämensä kyllyydestä - from the bottom of one's heart)
----> yltäkylläisyys - abundance
kyllästyä, kyllääntyä - to get bored with, get tired of, get sick of, get fed up with ; (in chemistry:) to be saturated, be impregnated
----> and the derivations from this eg. kyllästyttävä - boring, kyllästynyt - bored
Naava wrote:Linguaphile wrote:Naava, please, check my translations for Finnish sumea. It has more meanings than any of the other words and that makes me suspicious of it.
sumea itself doesn't have all that many meanings, it's just that English doesn't have an exact translation for it
Finnish Wiktionary says sumea means "ei selvä(piirteinen), epäselvä; huonosti läpinäkyvä; epätarkka" = not clear/distinct, unclear; hardly transparent; not sharp (eg. photos); blurry, fuzzy. In other words, something that doesn't have clear borders/edges or is hard to see through.
Naava wrote:I'm not entirely sure about 'completely, very, real'. Finnish Wiktionary only lists 'public, out in the open' and 'to be brought to the sight'. English Wiktionary says ilmiriita is an example of the meaning 'real', but if you check the page for ilmiriita itself, it's defined as 'heated public argument'. Finnish Wiktionary has 'an open difference in opinion' and 'obvious quarrel' in addition to the 'heated public argument'. So...
But if your fight is so bad it's obvious to everyone or becomes public, I'd say it's also a very real fight.
Saagpakk wrote:ilm- pref. un- in- (e.g. ilmvõimatu)
h34 wrote:
I think in addition to this, the (older?) meaning of 'sky/heaven' is preserved in some expressions like шондiа енмöн, lit. 'with sunny sky', meaning 'by daylight' ('before nightfall') or енма-муа костын, 'between sky/heaven and earth'. In the lyrics of this song, ен was translated as 'sky' as well. (But the default translation of 'sky' seems to be енеж, according to the online dictionary at fu-lab.ru.)
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests