Cognates and semantic shifts

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Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-02, 17:08

I posted this in the "Links to threads" thread, but it occurred to me that this topic should have its own thread, and we should leave the "Links to threads" thread for actual "links to threads." :D
So I am reposting it here, and below I will add a similar list that I posted a while back in one of the general forums.

Linguaphile wrote:
h34 wrote:Bodies of water

The semantic shifts and cognates are interesting with this set. For example, the word that means "well" in Finnic languages (Estonian kaev, Veps kaiv, Finnish kaivo and so on) and in Northern Saami (gáivo) means "spring" in several Eastern Saamic languages (Skolt käivv, Kildin ка̄ййв, etc). Kildin therefore uses a Russian loan for "well" (ко̄лэц, from Russian колодец) while Skolt differentiates a well (čääʹcckäivv, "water-käivv) from a spring (tuõlddikäivv, "bubbling/boiling-käivv) through the use of compound words.
The word that means "large river" in Saamic languages (Northern Saami eatnu, Skolt jäänn) is presumably related to the words for "mother" in those languages (Northern Saami eadni, Skolt jeäʹnn), as is the name of the only navigable river in Estonia (Emajõgi , from ema "mother"). I know that same analogy (mother = river, source of water/life) is used elsewhere too.
Laht means "bay, gulf" in Estonian and Finnish (lahti) but "marshy meadow or low shore prone to flooding" in Veps. "Marshy meadow" is luht in Estonian, but Skolt luhtt and Kildin луххт mean "bay, gulf".

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-02, 17:35

So we can use this thread to list cognates, false cognates, or to comment on the relationships between words in Uralic languages.

KomiZyrian (kv-kpv) вöр forest
Kildin (smi-smk) ва̄ррь forest
Lule (smi-smj) várre mountain
NorthernSaami (smi-sme) várri mountain, fjeld, treeless mountain
SouthernSaami (smi-sma) vaerie mountain, fjeld, treeless mountain

Estonian (et) kaev well
Veps (vep) kaiv well
Finnish (fi) kaivo well
NorthernSaami (smi-sme) gáivo well
Skolt (smi-sms) käivv spring
Kildin (smi-smk) ка̄ййв spring

Estonian (et) laht bay, gulf
FInnish (fi) lahti bay, gulf
Veps (vep) laht marshy meadow, low shore prone to flooding
Estonian (et) luht marshy meadow
Skolt (smi-sms) luhtt bay, gulf
Kildin (smi-smk) луххт bay, gulf

Finnish (fi) tunturi fell, fjeld, treeless northern mountains
Estonian (et) tundur treeless hill in a forest or taiga, fjeld
Ludic (lud) tander land that has become hard and flat by being trampled on
Estonian (et) tander = tanner battlefield, battleground
Finnish (fi) tantere = tanner area of ground, yard, flat open land
Livvi-Karelian (olo) tanner dry meadow

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Naava » 2018-09-02, 17:48

Linguaphile wrote:So we can use this thread to list cognates, false cognates, or to comment on the relationships between words in Uralic languages.

Great! I've been accepted to the 2nd course of Estonian and I love to talk about cognates and semantic shifts and stuff like that (especially in the FinEst languages 8-)) so I'm definitely going to use this thread.

Linguaphile wrote:The word that means "large river" in Saamic languages (Northern Saami eatnu, Skolt jäänn) is presumably related to the words for "mother" in those languages (Northern Saami eadni, Skolt jeäʹnn), as is the name of the only navigable river in Estonia (Emajõgi , from ema "mother"). I know that same analogy (mother = river, source of water/life) is used elsewhere too.

Apparently there's Emäjoki in Finland, too.

That "large river = mother river" reminds me of emä- that can sometimes mean 'great, big' in Finnish. For example, emämunaus (a huge fail/mistake) and emävalhe (a big lie).

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-02, 18:14

Naava wrote:Great! I've been accepted to the 2nd course of Estonian and I love to talk about cognates and semantic shifts and stuff like that (especially in the FinEst languages 8-)) so I'm definitely going to use this thread.

Yay! (On both counts - that's great that you've been accepted into the Estonian course, and that you plan to use this thread.)

Naava wrote:Apparently there's Emäjoki in Finland, too.

Cool! (But I'm a bit disappointed that it isn't an especially large river. It doesn't fit the pattern... LOL)

Naava wrote:That "large river = mother river" reminds me of emä- that can sometimes mean 'great, big' in Finnish. For example, emämunaus (a huge fail/mistake) and emävalhe (a big lie).

Interesting. I'm trying to think of any expressions like that in Estonian, and not coming up with any (which doesn't mean they don't exist though). For example a huge mistake would usually just be suur/tohutu viga.
I googled emavale to see if that expression is ever used in Estonian, and I don't think so because instead of finding Estonian websites what I mostly found is that it is the name of a plumbing company in Australia. (Now I can't stop thinking of it as the Huge Mistake Plumbing Company, even though that isn't even what it means. The Big Lie Plumbing Company?) :rotfl:

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Naava » 2018-09-02, 19:11

Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:Great! I've been accepted to the 2nd course of Estonian and I love to talk about cognates and semantic shifts and stuff like that (especially in the FinEst languages 8-)) so I'm definitely going to use this thread.

Yay! (On both counts - that's great that you've been accepted into the Estonian course, and that you plan to use this thread.)

I'm slightly nervous because I had so much else to do but here we go. I can't resist languages. I'm also nervous because now I'm going to get 30 credits in one semester, which I doubt I've ever done before. I hope I won't get buried under homework and essays and presentations. :para:

Apparently there's Emäjoki in Finland, too.

Cool! (But I'm a bit disappointed that it isn't an especially large river. It doesn't fit the pattern... LOL)

Maybe it was large for those who named it?

(Now I can't stop thinking of it as the Huge Mistake Plumbing Company, even though that isn't even what it means. The Big Lie Plumbing Company?) :rotfl:

That'd be the most honest company ever. "It's all a lie and we won't deny it." :D
But I wonder what they are lying about: The quality of their work? Their existence? Is it a front organization?

It's still not as funny as the Per Una clothes though. Click here if you don't get the joke.

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-03, 2:26

Naava wrote:I'm slightly nervous because I had so much else to do but here we go. I can't resist languages. I'm also nervous because now I'm going to get 30 credits in one semester, which I doubt I've ever done before. I hope I won't get buried under homework and essays and presentations. :para:
Good luck, palju őnne and onnea! I'm sure you'll do great.

Naava wrote:Maybe it was large for those who named it?
Yes, that makes sense. Like Estonia's Suur Munamägi, which is "big" if you are in Estonia, but seems less so if you're in the Himalayas or the Alps or the Sierra Nevada.

Naava wrote:It's still not as funny as the Per Una clothes though. Click here if you don't get the joke.
:rotfl:
There must be tons of those types of names, where the meaning in one language sounds terribly inappropriate in another. Supposedly the car called Nova didn't sell well in Latin America; in Spanish "no va" means "it doesn't go". (I mean, really, who would want to buy a car with that name? The first time you had trouble with it you'd go back to the car dealership and they'd say "well, it's not like we didn't warn you....")
I've had the same thought about the restaurant chain called Wimpy Burger, too, and that's not even a translation issue. Every time I've ordered their "wimpy burger" there I've half-expected them to bring out this tiny little thing with a limp piece of lettuce on a tiny hamburger patty in a miniature bun saying "see, we told you it was wimpy!" (The name actually comes from Popeye cartoons and the burgers are pretty large.)

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-03, 5:14

Estonian (et) lõuna south; midday meal
Votic (vot) lõunaz south, midday meal
Finnish (fi) lounas southwest, midday meal
Livonian (liv) lȭnag southeast, midday meal
Komi (kv) лун day
Udmurt (udm) луназе during the day (dialect; standard нуназе)

Estonian (et) ida east
Finnish (fi) itä east
Votic (vot) itä east
Livonian (liv) idā northeast

Estonian (et) edel southwest
Votic (vot) etelä southwest
Finnish (fi) etelä south
Livonian (liv) jedāl south

Estonian (et) lääs west
Votic (vot) länsi west
Finnish (fi) länsi west
Livonian (liv) lēņtš southwest

Estonian (et) loe northwest
Votic (vot) looõ northwest
Finnish (fi) luode northwest
Livonian (liv) lūod northwest
Ludic (lud) luodeh west

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-05, 5:06

Estonian (et) oja creek, brook
Ludic (lud) oja creek, brook
Veps (vep) oja creek, brook
Votic (vot) õja creek, brook
InariSaami (sme) aajâ creek, brook
NorthernSaami (sme) ája spring
LuleSaami (sme) ája spring
SouthSaami (sme) aajege spring


Estonian (et) värav gate
Votic (vot) väraja gate
Finnish (fi) veräjä gate
Ludic (lud) veräi door (leading outside)
Veps (vep) verei door (leading outside)


Estonian (et) kaunis beautiful
Votic (vot) kauniᴢ red


Estonian (et) vere blood (genitive; nominative = veri)
Estonian (et) verev blood-colored
Võro (vro) verrev red


Estonian (et) mitte not
Veps (vep) mitte what

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Naava » 2018-09-05, 11:23

Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:I'm slightly nervous because I had so much else to do but here we go. I can't resist languages. I'm also nervous because now I'm going to get 30 credits in one semester, which I doubt I've ever done before. I hope I won't get buried under homework and essays and presentations. :para:
Good luck, palju őnne and onnea! I'm sure you'll do great.

I've had my first lesson (next one is tomorrow!) and it was nice. We played a board game where you had to answer questions in Estonian. It was so frustrating because there were three spots of "go back to the beginning" and thanks to that, I told my phone number at least three times in Estonian (which was not exciting at all because the numbers are almost identical to spoken Finnish numbers, so... yay?)
Anyway, I was surprised by how much Estonian I can still remember and understand. I'm sure one of the reasons why I hadn't forgotten everything I had learnt earlier is because of this forum and you guys who write in Estonian. So, thanks! :mrgreen:

It was also fun because people kept mixing Estonian and Finnish like this one girl who said ma halusin käia instead of tahtsin. It sounds so Estonian, it even has that -si- imperfect! But no, it doesn't exist. Also, Swedish. Lots of Swedish. :lol:

Naava wrote:Maybe it was large for those who named it?
Yes, that makes sense. Like Estonia's Suur Munamägi, which is "big" if you are in Estonia, but seems less so if you're in the Himalayas or the Alps or the Sierra Nevada.

We've named every single hill and not-a-hill-really-but-a-bit-higher-than-rest-of-the-place as mountains in Southern Ostrobothnia. :mrgreen: For example, there's Jouppilanvuori in Seinäjoki, the capital of Southern Ostrobothnia. It's 118 m tall and it name translates as "the mountain of Jouppila".

Supposedly the car called Nova didn't sell well in Latin America; in Spanish "no va" means "it doesn't go". (I mean, really, who would want to buy a car with that name? The first time you had trouble with it you'd go back to the car dealership and they'd say "well, it's not like we didn't warn you....")

XD

I've had the same thought about the restaurant chain called Wimpy Burger, too, and that's not even a translation issue. Every time I've ordered their "wimpy burger" there I've half-expected them to bring out this tiny little thing with a limp piece of lettuce on a tiny hamburger patty in a miniature bun saying "see, we told you it was wimpy!" (The name actually comes from Popeye cartoons and the burgers are pretty large.)

We have a proverb "the snows of previous winter" or menneen talven lumia which means that something is old and not important anymore; something forgotten. You can imagine how many jokes there were about Nokia's Lumia phones.

Estonian (et) vere blood (genitive; nominative = veri)
Estonian (et) verev blood-colored
Võro (vro) verrev red

(hu) vörös red

Linguaphile wrote:Estonian (et) lõuna south; midday meal
Votic (vot) lõunaz south, midday meal
Finnish (fi) lounas southwest, midday meal
Livonian (liv) lȭnag southeast, midday meal
Komi (kv) лун day
Udmurt (udm) луназе during the day (dialect; standard нуназе)

These were cool!

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-06, 1:37

Naava wrote:I was surprised by how much Estonian I can still remember and understand. I'm sure one of the reasons why I hadn't forgotten everything I had learnt earlier is because of this forum and you guys who write in Estonian. So, thanks! :mrgreen:
:D
Naava wrote:It was also fun because people kept mixing Estonian and Finnish like this one girl who said ma halusin käia instead of tahtsin. It sounds so Estonian, it even has that -si- imperfect! But no, it doesn't exist. Also, Swedish. Lots of Swedish. :lol:

Why so much Swedish? (I mean, I know why people in Finland would know some Swedish. But it surprises me that it would be used in place of Estonian, when Finnish and Estonian are so similar and Swedish is so different by comparison.)

Naava wrote:We have a proverb "the snows of previous winter" or menneen talven lumia which means that something is old and not important anymore; something forgotten. You can imagine how many jokes there were about Nokia's Lumia phones.

That's funny! So, it's like menneen Nokian Lumia then. :?: And what do you do with them? They don't melt away.
Your post inspired me to look up the meaning of Nokia in Finnish and it seems that it is either the plural of a rarely-used (?) word noki 'soot' or archaic word nois 'marten'. :?:
What is funny (or sad :? ) is that more than once I've been asked (or heard people ask) "so if Nokia is a Finnish company, then why does it have a Japanese-sounding name?"
:ohwell:


Back to "cognates and semantic shifts":

KomiZyrian (kv) ай (ai) father
Estonian (et) äi father-in-law
Veps (vep) äi a lot
Ludic (lud) äij a lot
Finnish (fi) äijä old man


KomiZyrian (kv) ав, авй- (av, avj-) mind, spirit (but not brain)
Finnish (fi) aivo mind, brain (but not spirit)
Veps (vep) aivod mind, brain (but not spirit)
Estonian (et) aju mind, brain (but not spirit)


And this one, which may be the best one of all:
KomiZyrian (kv) вем (vem) brain
Moksha (mdf) вайме (vaime/vajmä) breath, soul
Estonian (et) vaim spirit, ghost
Northern Saami (sme) váibmu heart
Finnish (fi) vaimo wife

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-08, 15:28

sulhain young married man
Ludic (lud) sulhaine fiancé
Finnish (fi) sulhanen fiancé
Votic (vot) sulhanõ fiancé
Võro (vro) sulanõ servant
Estonian (et) sulane servant
Livonian (liv) sulli servant

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-09, 19:05

(et) asutus institution
(fi) asutus settlement

(et) hallitus mold
(fi) hallitus government

(et) kannatus suffering
(fi) kannatus support

(et) koristama to clean, tidy up
(fi) koristella to decorate

(et) katsuma to feel, touch
(fi) katsoa to look

(et) pulmad wedding(s)
(fi) pulmat problems, puzzles

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Naava » 2018-09-09, 20:28

Linguaphile wrote:Why so much Swedish? (I mean, I know why people in Finland would know some Swedish. But it surprises me that it would be used in place of Estonian, when Finnish and Estonian are so similar and Swedish is so different by comparison.)

We talked about this and we thought that it's maybe because we've learnt to associate "I can't remember any words!" with Swedish, so when we're trying to speak Estonian, our brains go like "oh yes I recognise this situation, here, have some Swedish words! : )" What's even more funny: this doesn't happen in Swedish lessons. That's when everyone suddenly remembers English, Russian and German words. Especially German. Our Swedish teacher in high school even gave us a 15-minute speech of "this word is German, this is Swedish, this is German, this is Swedish, please don't mix these up in your matriculation exam". :lol:

But don't worry, we also mix Estonian and Finnish and the worst thing is that it's much more difficult to notice than Estonian and Swedish. Like this one girl who said that she'd been sick and so she had spent the previous day by resting and parandama herself and the teacher was just like :nope:

Since this is a cognate thread:
(et) parandama to fix, repair, improve
(fi) parantaa to heal, improve

That's funny! So, it's like menneen Nokian Lumia then. :?: And what do you do with them? They don't melt away.

No, it's menneen talven Lumia (Lumia of previous winter). :D You know it was a good joke when someone even named his MA thesis after that.

Your post inspired me to look up the meaning of Nokia in Finnish and it seems that it is either the plural of a rarely-used (?) word noki 'soot' or archaic word nois 'marten'. :?:

Noki means 'soot' and it's not rare. :| nokia is the plural partitive, and (surprise!) that's not rare either. Maybe they meant that you don't need the plural partitive of 'soot' very often? In any case, I doubt anyone would've named a city after plural partitive of soot. It sounds kinda... random.

Finnish Wikipedia explains that it could be named after sable (which archaic name is "soot-marten") or beaver (because some people say there weren't any sables in Finland when the city was named). Another explanation is that the word meant any animal with black/dark fur. It also says there that nokia is a common word in names of bodies of water, which is why some people think it might've meant 'place where fur animals nest'.

What is funny (or sad :? ) is that more than once I've been asked (or heard people ask) "so if Nokia is a Finnish company, then why does it have a Japanese-sounding name?" :ohwell:

They know things and you've been very close to discovering the truth, too.


Back to "cognates and semantic shifts":
Finnish (fi) aivo mind, brain (but not spirit)

*aivot, it's always plural. I've never heard it used for 'mind'. Where did you get this translation? :hmm:

And this one, which may be the best one of all:
KomiZyrian (kv) вем (vem) brain
Moksha (mdf) вайме (vaime/vajmä) breath, soul
Estonian (et) vaim spirit, ghost
Northern Saami (sme) váibmu heart
Finnish (fi) vaimo wife

This is definitely my favourite one. :mrgreen:

Linguaphile wrote:(et)hallitus mold
(fi) hallitus government

What's the difference

Linguaphile wrote:(et) pulmad wedding(s)
(fi) pulmat problems, puzzles

There's one song that I've loved ever since I heard it for the first time as a child. One line of the song is "ei, tää pulma on vasta" - and every time I hear this part, I automatically translate it as "no, this is truly a wedding". :lol: It quite ruins the feeling because the song is actually about a mythological (near-)immortal creature tonttu wondering what happens when you die.
In case you're interested, here's the Finnish and English lyrics. And an instrumental version because I absolutely love the melody.

Linguaphile wrote:(et) koristama to clean, tidy up
(fi) koristella to decorate

There's also koristaa, which is even closer to koristama than what koristella is. :mrgreen: (It also means 'to decorate'.)

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-09, 20:58

Naava wrote:
What is funny (or sad :? ) is that more than once I've been asked (or heard people ask) "so if Nokia is a Finnish company, then why does it have a Japanese-sounding name?" :ohwell:

They know things and you've been very close to discovering the truth, too.

:ohno:

Naava wrote:
Finnish (fi) aivo mind, brain (but not spirit)

*aivot, it's always plural. I've never heard it used for 'mind'. Where did you get this translation? :hmm:

:hmm:
I'm really not sure because it's one of those I've thought I "knew" since a long time ago and it was on a really old list I had saved from somewhere. But on a hunch I looked it up in the ETY dictionary and it has it as a singular form too (translated as aju) so I suspect that's probably the original source of the list. Or the list and the dictionary shared some common source that had it in its singular form for etymological purposes. Anyway, thanks for the correction.

More from the list (corrections welcome):

(et) huvitav interesting
(fi) huvittava amusing, funny

(et) konkurss competition
(fi) konkurssi bankruptcy

(et) huvitav konkurss interesting competition
(fi) huvittava konkurssi funny bankruptcy

(et) lait blame
(fi) lait laws

(et) riisuma to rake
(fi) riisua to undress

(et) puhuma to blow
(fi) puhua to speak

(et) rääkima to speak
(fi) rääkyä to yell, howl

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-13, 0:49

Livonian (liv) nīn castle, fortess
Finnish (fi) linna castle, fortress
linna city, town
Livvi-Karelian (olo) linnu city, town
Estonian (et) linn city, town
Veps (vep) l'idn city, town
Votic (vot) lidna city, town


Votic (vot) saloz fence surrounding a sacrificial tree
Finnish (fi) salo wilderness, deep forest
LivviKarelian (olo) salo thick forest, thick brushland
Ludic (lud) salo virgin forest
Estonian (et) salu grove surrounded by open land
InariSaami (smi-smn) suálui island
LuleSaami (smi-smj) suoloj island
NorthernSaami (smi-sme) suolo island
PiteSaami (smi-smp) suolo island
SkoltSaami (smi-sms) suâll island
KildinSaami (smi-smk) суэл island
TerSaami (smi-smt) sïelaj island

(Put your cursor over the flags to see which languages they are if you are interested, because many share the same flags but each one is a different language.)

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-14, 0:52

Finnish (fi) väki people, crowd, audience
Votic (vot) vätši nation, people*
vägi nation, people
Livvi-Karelian (olo) vägi force, strength, power
TverKarelian (krl) vägi force, strength, power
Estonian (et) vägi force, might, strength
Veps (vep) vägi force, strength, potential, large amount
Ludic (lud) vägi force, strength, large amount, very much, quite
Livonian (liv) väg force, power, fertilizer
NorthernSaami (sme-smi) viehka rather, quite
PiteSaami (sme-smp) viehka rather, quite
SkoltSaami (sme-sms) viõkk strength, force
KildinSaami (sme-smk) вӣгк strength, force
Erzya (myv) вий strength, force, might
Moksha (mdf) вий strength, force, might
Mari (mhr) вий strength, influence, validity
Khanty (kca) вӛй power, strength, difficulty
Udmurt (udm) ёзви joint (i.e., of body)**

* It is very common for the k of other Finnic languages to become in Votic.
** The etymological connection is evident only in the final syllable (ви) of ёзви.

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-13, 6:40

(et) leil sauna steam (secondary, less common meaning: soul, life spirit)
(fi) löyly sauna steam
(vot) löülü sauna steam
löülü sauna steam
(lud) ľöuľ sauna steam
(vep) ľöľ sauna steam
(vro) lõun sauna steam
(liv) läul sauna steam; soul
(smi-sme) levlo sauna steam; vapor; steam; smell
(smi-smn) lievlâ sauna steam; vapor; steam; smell
(kca) лил spirit; breathe
(mns) лили spirit; breathe
(udm) лул spirit, breath, breathing
(kv-koi) лов spirit, soul
(hu) lélek soul; ghost, evil spirit

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Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-14, 4:39

(fi) sauna sauna
sauna sauna
(vep) sauna sauna
(vot) sauna sauna
(olo) saunu sauna
(et) saun sauna
(vro) sann sauna
(liv) sōna sauna
(smi-smn) suávŋá [genitive; nom. syevŋis] hole in the snow, such as for a ptarmigan or for reindeer grazing
(smi-sme) suovdnji hole in the snow, such as for a ptarmigan or for reindeer grazing
(smi-smp) suövmie hole in the snow, such as for a ptarmigan or for reindeer grazing

h34
Posts: 953
Joined: 2014-12-16, 20:15
Gender: male

Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby h34 » 2018-10-14, 14:00

Linguaphile wrote:(et) leil sauna steam (secondary, less common meaning: soul, life spirit)
(fi) löyly sauna steam
(vot) löülü sauna steam
löülü sauna steam
(lud) ľöuľ sauna steam
(vep) ľöľ sauna steam
(vro) lõun sauna steam
(liv) läul sauna steam; soul
(smi-sme) levlo sauna steam; vapor; steam; smell
(smi-smn) lievlâ sauna steam; vapor; steam; smell
(kca) лил spirit; breathe
(mns) лили spirit; breathe
(udm) лул spirit, breath, breathing
(kv-koi) лов spirit, soul
(hu) lélek soul; ghost, evil spirit


Looking for an equivalent in Meadow Mari, I only found the noun пуш (puš) which has a very broad range of meanings:

(1) smell, scent, odour
(2) steam, vapour
(3) charcoal fumes, carbon monoxide
(4) (figuratively): spirit

I was wondering if puš was derived from the root *pušV- ('to blow') which I found here but as Mari isn't listed, I'm not sure. Just in case it is, puš might be a cognate with Estonian puhuma ('to blow') and even Finnish puhua ('to speak').

Linguaphile
Posts: 2326
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Cognates and semantic shifts

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-14, 17:16

h34 wrote:Looking for an equivalent in Meadow Mari, I only found the noun пуш (puš) which has a very broad range of meanings:

(1) smell, scent, odour
(2) steam, vapour
(3) charcoal fumes, carbon monoxide
(4) (figuratively): spirit

I was wondering if puš was derived from the root *pušV- ('to blow') which I found here but as Mari isn't listed, I'm not sure. Just in case it is, puš might be a cognate with Estonian puhuma ('to blow') and even Finnish puhua ('to speak').


Cool! I made a list for that root. It's a good one, since it has some interesting changes in meaning and involves so many languages.
I didn't find Mari listed either, but I'll add your word to the list. It seems likely, or if there is no etymological connection, it's at least a cool coincidence. (Likewise, I didn't find anything citing a direct etymological connection for the Livonian, Nenets, Nganasan, or Udmurt words below. But they fit so well into the list, it seems likely - or, again, a cool coincidence if not.)

(nio) буодя to speak
(nio) буоʒу word, speech
(fi) puhua to speak
(olo) puhuo to blow, to cast a spell, to speak
(lud) puhuda to blow, to cast a spell
(vep) puhuda to blow, to cast a spell
(vot) puhua to blow, to snort
puhhuua to blow, to breathe
(liv) pūgõ to blow
(fi) puhkua to blow
(vro) puhkma to blow
(et) puhuma to blow
(yrk) посăнăсь to blow
(smi-smt) possad to blow
(smi-sme) bossut to blow, to be windy
(smi-smj) båssot to blow, to breathe heavily
(smi-smp) båssot to blow, to breathe heavily
(smi-sma) båssodh to blow, to breath heavily
(smi-smn) possoođ to blow, to inflate, to be cross
(smi-sms) pååssad to blow, to swell
(smi-smk) поассэ to swell up
(kv-kpv) puški̮ to blow, to puff
(mhr) пуш smell, scent; steam, vapor; charcoal fumes, carbon monoxide; spirit
(udm) пуш contents, insides, ingredients


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