Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Linguaphile
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Re: Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-01-20, 19:22

Estonian
Conjugation of verbs elama "to live" and tulema "to come"

Infinitives:
1: elama tulema
2: elada tulla

Indicative present, affirmative
1s elan tulen
2s elad tuled
3s elab tuleb
1p elame tuleme
2p elate tulete
3p elavad tulevad

Indicative present, negative
1s mina ei ela mina ei tule
2s sina ei ela sina ei tule
3s tema ei ela tema ei tule
1s meie ei ela meie ei tule
2s teie ei ela teie ei tule
3p nemad ei ela nemad ei tule

Indicative simple past, affirmative
1s elasin tulin
2s elasid tulid
3s elas tuli
1p elasime tulime
2p elasite tulite
3p elasid tulid

Indicative simple past, negative
1s mina ei elanud mina ei tulnud
2s sina ei elanud sina ei tulnud
3s tema ei elanud tema ei tulnud
1s meie ei elanud meie ei tulnud
2s teie ei elanud teie ei tulnud
3p nemad ei elanud nemad ei tulnud

Past perfect, affirmative
1s olen elanud olen tulnud
2s oled elanud oled tulnud
3s on elanud on tulnud
1p oleme elanud oleme tulnud
2p olete elanud olete tulnud
3p on elanud on tulnud

Past perfect, negative
1s mina ei ole elanud mina ei ole tulnud
2s sina ei ole elanud sina ei ole tulnud
3s tema ei ole elanud tema ei ole tulnud
1s meie ei ole elanud meie ei ole tulnud
2s teie ei ole elanud teie ei ole tulnud
3p nemad ei ole elanud nemad ei ole tulnud

Imperative
2s ela! tule!
3s elagu! tulgu!
1p elagem! (elame!) tulgem! (tuleme!)
2p elage! tulge!
3p elagu! tulgu!

Imperative, negative
2s ära ela! ära tule!
3s ärgu elagu! ärgu tulgu!
1p ärgem elagem!, ärme elame! ärgem tulgem!, ärme tuleme!
2p ärge elage! ärge tulge!
3p ärgu elagu! ärgu tulgu!

:arrow: for comparison
Last edited by Linguaphile on 2019-01-20, 20:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Naava
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Re: Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Postby Naava » 2019-01-20, 19:50

Linguaphile wrote:Indicative simple past, affirmative
1s elasin tulisin
2s elasid tulisid
3s elas tuli
1p elasime tulisime
2p elasite tulisite
3p elasid tulisid

Isn't it tulin / tulid / tulime / tulite / tulid? :hmm:

Linguaphile
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Re: Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-01-20, 20:05

Naava wrote:Isn't it tulin / tulid / tulime / tulite / tulid? :hmm:

Muidugi on. That's what I get for putting it right next to elama and using cut-and-past (with a headache!) :doggy: Somehow I always manage to mess these up somehow. Will check Livonian later when the headach is gone.

h34
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Re: Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Postby h34 » 2019-01-21, 4:45

Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:Isn't it tulin / tulid / tulime / tulite / tulid? :hmm:

Muidugi on. That's what I get for putting it right next to elama and using cut-and-past (with a headache!) :doggy: Somehow I always manage to mess these up somehow. Will check Livonian later when the headach is gone.

Thanks a lot for writing them all down anyway! Hope you're feeling better soon. :)

Linguaphile
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Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-01-21, 7:20

h34 wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:Isn't it tulin / tulid / tulime / tulite / tulid? :hmm:

Muidugi on. That's what I get for putting it right next to elama and using cut-and-past (with a headache!) :doggy: Somehow I always manage to mess these up somehow. Will check Livonian later when the headache is gone.

Thanks a lot for writing them all down anyway! Hope you're feeling better soon. :)

Thanks! I am. Lately I've been getting headaches when I use the computer too long so it's not easy to avoid. Anyway I checked Livonian and it's good - it helps that I was looking at a conjugation table to make sure when I posted that one, rather than doing it just from my head.

Linguaphile
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Re: Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-02-28, 1:10

Finnish conversational phrases

Terve = Moi = Hei = Hello = Hi
Hyvää päivää! = Päivää = Good day!/Good afternoon!
Hyvää huomenta! = Huomenta = Good morning!
Hyvää iltaa! = Iltaa = Good evening!
Hyvää yötä! = Good night!
Mitä kuuluu? = How are you?
Kiitos hyvää = Fine, thank you
Miten menee? = How's it going?
Kiitos hyvin = Fine, thank you
Näkemiin = Goodbye = Until next time
Ole hyvä ja... = Please...
Kiitos = Thank you
Anteeksi = Excuse me
Olen pahoillani = I'm sorry
Paljonko se maksaa? = Kuinka paljon se maksaa? = How much does this cost?
Missä on lähin... = Where is the nearest...?
pankkiautomaatti = ATM
pankki = bank
kylpyhuone = bathroom
kauppa = store
bussipysäkki = bus stop
Puhutko suomea? = Do you speak Finnish?
ruotsia = Swedish
viroa = Estonian
venäjää = Russian
saksaa = German
ranskaa = French
englantia = English
En ymmärrä = I don't understand.
Ole hyvä puhua hitaasti = Please speak slowly.
Sano se uudelleen = Please say it again.
Mikä sinun nimesi on? = What is your name?
Nimeni on = My name is
Mistä olet kotoisin? = Where are you from?
Minne olet menossa? = Mihin olet menossa? = Where are you going?
Menen kotiin = I'm going home.
Mennään kotiin = Let's go home.
En tiedä = I don't know.

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Naava
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Re: Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Postby Naava » 2019-02-28, 10:15

Linguaphile wrote:Finnish conversational phrases

A few additions:

Terve = Moi = Hei = Moikka = Heippa
Hyvää yötä! = Öitä!
Näkemiin = Näkemisiin = Goodbye = Until next time
Kuulemiin = Kuulemisiin = Goodbye (when on phone)
Hyvästi = Goodbye (when you're not expecting to see each other again)
Olen pahoillani = Anteeksi = Anna/Antakaa anteeksi
bussipysäkki = linja-autopysäkki
Puhutko/Puhutteko suomea?
Voisitko/Voisitteko puhua hitaammin? = Puhuisitko/Puhuisitteko hitaammin? = Please speak slowly.
Voisitko/Voisitteko toistaa? = Please say it again.
Mikä sinun nimesi/teidän nimenne on?
Mistä olet/olette kotoisin?
Minne olet/olette menossa? = Mihin olet/olette menossa?

Also, I'm not quite comfortable with the translation of 'please', since the word doesn't exist in Finnish. In certain contexts, you can use ole hyvä / olkaa hyvä / olkaa hyvät or kiitos but it's more common to just use conditional, plural 'you', or voisitko/voisitteko + verb or antaisitko/antaisitteko + verb. You can also say olisitko/olisitteko niin kiltti ja... (would you be so kind and...) But none of these are exactly as handy as 'please'. The closest you can get to use-it-anywhere-to-be-polite kind of 'please' is the conditional.

For example, if you were in a cafe and said "ole hyvä ja anna kahvi" it would sound really really odd. "Kahvi, kiitos" is the norm; many say just "kahvi" and nothing else, although some people criticise this. Another option is to say "May I have a coffee" (Saisinko kahvin?) or "I would take a coffee" (Mä ottaisin kahvin) or "I could take a coffee" (Mä voisin ottaa kahvin). But the problem here is that it doesn't really work in standard Finnish. :hmm: Saying minä ottaisin kahvin sounds emphasized, like YOU want to drink coffee.

All in all, it's somewhat difficult to list conversational phrases in standard Finnish because standard Finnish is hardly ever used in conversations... :D Even this list includes words that are not exactly standard Finnish, like "moi" and "hei" or the question "miten menee".

About olen pahoillani / anteeksi / anna anteeksi:

Anteeksi is the use-it-for-all word: it can mean heartfelt 'I'm sorry', but it's also something you can say if you bump into
some random person on street or when you want someone's attention or when you want to make people move out of your way. Although most people would say nothing or just a short oho if they bump into another person on street. Maybe even oho sori if they're feeling polite that day.

Olen pahoillani is like when you've made a mistake and you want to apologize. You could use it if you're late: olen pahoillani, että olen myöhässä. It's also used for condolences. I guess you could translate it as 'I feel sorry'.

Anna/antakaa anteeksi is more sincere than plain anteeksi. It's something like 'please forgive me'; I could use it if I accidentally hit my friend when putting on a jacket or something, but also if I had fucked up something. The difference between anna anteeksi and olen pahoillani is IMO that anna anteeksi is used when you did something wrong (and you expect the other person to be angry or hurt because of it) whereas olen pahoillani is used when you're the one feeling bad. Sometimes it's interchangeable with olen pahoillani, like if you lied about something and then you want to explain why you did so - you could use both anna anteeksi and olen pahoillani, even in the same sentence.

Bussipysäkki is also more spoken language than standard because bussi is a loanword. The "Finnish" name for a bus is linja-auto.

Ole hyvä puhua hitaasti sounds odd. Ole hyvä sounds a bit like giving a permission to do something IMO (maybe because you can say ole hyvä ja istu alas for 'please sit down' or olkaa hyvä ja tulkaa sisään for 'please come in'). I also think that it's more common to say 'speak more slowly' than 'speak slowly'.

Sano se uudelleen is technically correct, but I'm not sure if anyone would actually use it. 'Toistaa' (to repeat) feels more natural to me here.

I also added the polite/plural 'you' forms just in case. :D

Linguaphile
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Re: Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-03-01, 2:37

Thanks Naava! Kiitos!
Good point about "conversational" phrases in standard Finnish. Perhaps I should label them "travellers' phrases in standard Finnish" instead? Or "conversational phrases in travellers' Finnish"? :silly:

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Naava
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Re: Basic words and grammar in Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian

Postby Naava » 2019-03-01, 9:55

Linguaphile wrote:Thanks Naava! Kiitos!
Good point about "conversational" phrases in standard Finnish. Perhaps I should label them "travellers' phrases in standard Finnish" instead? Or "conversational phrases in travellers' Finnish"? :silly:

No problem! (And thanks to you too for making that list in the first place!)

I don't know about the title - feel free to use whatever you like. :mrgreen:

More comments on greetings: I've sometimes seen people claiming that hei and moi are used when meeting and hei hei and moi moi when leaving, but I don't think that's true. IMO it's more about the context and your personal choice. :hmm: I've definitely heard moi and moi moi both when meeting and when leaving. Like here:
► Show Spoiler


Also, I'm not sure if it should be included in the list but did you know that we use tere (and tere tere) for 'hi'? :mrgreen: I've always thought it's funny how it's a neutral greeting in Estonian but very informal in Finnish. (I think it's a loan but I'm not sure.)
► Show Spoiler


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