Komi-Zyrian (коми кыв)

h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15
Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby h34 » 2020-05-27, 16:18

GEN / genitive / -лöн

As the nominative case can be used to indicate possession, the genitive isn't always required (as in the examples above).

Often the genitive is used as in Finnish: {noun + genitive suffix} + {noun + possessive suffix}:

вoклöн¹ пиыс²
¹ brother-GEN
² son.NOM-POSS.3SG
= the son of the brother, the brother's son

... or {noun + genitive suffix} + noun without a suffix:

Сыктывкар - Коми Республикалöн юркар.
- Коми Komi.NOM
- Республика-лöн Republic-GEN
- юр=кар head/capital=city.NOM
= Syktyvkar is the capital (city) of the Komi Republic.

Гараж(лöн) öдзöс восьса
- гараж-лöн garage-GEN
- öдзöс door.NOM
- восьса open (adjective)
= The garage door is open.
= The door of the garage is open.
(In the second example, the use of the genitive is optional.)

ABL / ablative / -лысь/ -lys'

Just like the genitive case, the ablative can be used to indicate ownership, especially in constructions where the thing possessed appears in the accusative case, e.g.:

кагалысь чача мырддьыны
- кага-лысь child-ABL
- чача toy.ACC
- мырддьы-ны take-INF
= to take the child's toy away (to take the toy away from the child)

More generally, the ablative is opposed to the dative case and often combined with verbs such as 'to take' or 'to ask'.

(Trying to find more examples later)

Edit: fixing an error (picked an example sentence that was not in the ablative case …)


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Last edited by h34 on 2022-10-01, 18:52, edited 4 times in total.

Linguaphile
Posts:5368
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-05-27, 16:20

Thank you for posting these, h34! It's good information.

h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby h34 » 2020-05-28, 23:04

At least this is a good incentive for me to work on my Russian (which is even more rusty than I thought it was). :)

-----
Edit: deleting romanization, trying to improve readability

DAT / dative / -лы

Generally, the dative case is more or less 'opposed' to the ablative case:

керкалысь
= of/from a house (ABL)

керкалы
= to a/the house (DAT)

The dative is also the case used for the indirect object:

вöвлы¹ зöр² сетны³
¹ horse-DAT
² oats.ACC (unmarked ACC)
³ give-INF
= to give a/the horse oats

ACC / accusative / -öc or unmarked

The accusative case is used to express the direct object:

мöс¹ пачкыны²
¹ cow.ACC*
² slaughter-INF
= to slaughter a cow

керка¹ тшупны²
¹ house.ACC *
² pull down.INF
= to pull down a house

* In these examples, the accusative is unmarked, thus identical with the nominative case. This form is generally used with indefinite objects ('a cow', 'a house'). For definite objects, the accusative suffix -öc is added:

Педöр¹ пыр² кöч³ кыйö⁴.
¹ Pedör < Fyodor, Fiodor
² always, all the time, constantly
³ hare.ACC
⁴ hunt-3SG
= Pedör is always hunting hares.

Сiйö¹ со² кöчöс³ лыйöма⁴.
¹ he, she, it
² look! (exclamation; Russian вот!, видишь!)
³ hare-ACC
⁴ лый-öма / lyj-öma = shoot.PRETERITE2.3SG
= Look, he's shot the hare.

The suffixed version of the accusative case can be used with indefinite objects as well in order to distinguish the accusative from the nominative case:

Шог¹ шогöс² корсьö³.
¹ sorrow/grief.NOM
² sorrow/grief-ACC
³ seek-3SG
= Sorrow seeks sorrow.


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Last edited by h34 on 2021-12-26, 22:16, edited 3 times in total.

h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby h34 » 2020-05-31, 10:38

INS / instrumental / -öн

(1) The instrumental case suffix is added to words representing an object that is being used to perform a function (a 'tool' in a broader sense; sometimes equipment facilitating an activity, such as gloves or clothes):

вердны¹ зöрйöн²
¹ feed-INF
² oats-INS
= to feed with oats

керавны¹ черöн²
¹ cut-INF
² axe-INS
= to cut with an axe

грöзитны¹ чунъöн²
¹ threaten-INF
² finger-INS
= to threaten with the fist (lit. with a finger)

гижны¹ карандашöн²
¹ write-INF
² pencil-INS
= to write with a pencil

вурны¹ машинаöн²
¹ sew-INF
² machine-INS
= to sew with a machine

уджавны¹ кепысьöн²
¹ work-INF
² glove-INS
= to work with gloves

мунны¹ пароходöн²
¹ go-INF
² steamboat-INS
= to travel by* steamer, steamboat, steamship

* The instrumental case can correspond to English 'by' in some other contexts as well (e. g. to express proximity to an object):

пукавны¹ биöн²
¹ sit-INF
² fire-INS
= to sit by the fire

(2) Another use of the instrumental case is to denote a time period during which an action is performed:

эштöдны¹ кык² лунöн³
¹ finish-INF
² two
³ day-INS
= to finish/complete within two days

стрöитны¹ воöн²
¹ build-INF
² year-INS
= to build within a year

COM / comitative / -кöд

(1) The comitative is used to describe a common activity:

сёрнитны¹ мамкöд²
¹ talk-INF
² mother-COM
= to talk with mother

(2) It can also denote an encounter:

вочаасьны¹ ошкöд²
¹ meet, to run into - INF
² bear-COM
= to run into a bear

(3) The comitative can describe a combination of objects:

Чай¹ оз² позь³ видзны⁴ карасинкöд⁵.
¹ tea.NOM
² not.NEG.3SG
³ may (word stem)
⁴ store-INF
⁵ kerosene-COM
= Tea may (/must) not be stored together with kerosene (lit. [one] may not store tea together with kerosene).

In a few cases the comitative can correspond to the use of 'against' in English, e.g. 'to fight against:

вермасьны¹ тырмытöмторкöд²
¹ fight-INF
² problem-COM
= to fight against a problem

ABE /abessive / -тöг

The abessive case is used to describe something/someone absent:

пукавны¹ битöг²
¹ sit-INF
² fire-ABE
= to sit without fire

лыддьысьны¹ öчкитöг²
¹ read-INF
² glasses-ABE
= to read without glasses

сёйны¹ совтöг²
¹ eat-INF
² salt-ABE
= to eat without salt

кольны¹ няньтöг²
¹ stay-INF
² bread-ABE
= to stay without bread

овны¹ бать-мамтöг²
¹ live-INF
² parents-ABE
= to live without parents

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Last edited by h34 on 2021-12-26, 22:06, edited 4 times in total.

h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby h34 » 2020-07-01, 12:03

Inner local cases

ILL / illative /
INE / inessive / -ын
ELA / elative / -ысь

Кытшö? Where (to)? (Whither?)
> ILLATIVE

Зонка¹ пырö² школаö³.
¹ boy
² go-3SG
³ school-ILL
= The boy is going to school.

Кöнi? where?
> INESSIVE

Зонка¹ велöдчö² школаын³.
¹ boy
² study/learn-3SG
³ school-INE
= The boy is studying at school.

Кытысь? Where from? From where?
> ELATIVE

Зонка¹ петö² школаысь³.
¹ boy
² come-3SG
³ school-ELA
= The boy is coming from school.

More about the inner local cases:

ILL / illative /

(1) Words in the illative case can describe an object towards which or into which someone/something is moving:

Ми¹ мунам² талун³ театрö⁴.
¹ we
² go-3PL
³ today
⁴ theatre-ILL
= We're going to the theatre today.

Асывъяснас¹ челядь² мунöны³ челядь садъясö⁴, школаясö⁵.
¹ morning-PL-
² children
³ go-3PL
⁴ kindergarten-PL-ILL
⁵ school-PL-ILL
= In the morning, the children go to kindergarten or to school

Таво¹ миян² челядь³ мунöны⁴ медводдза⁵ классö⁶.
¹ this=year
² my
³ children
⁴ go-3PL
⁵ first
⁶ class/grade-ILL
= This year my children go to first class/grade (/start school)

Ми¹ мунам² талун³ театрö.
¹ we
² go-1PL
³ this=day
⁴ theatre-ILL
= We are going to the theatre today.

(2) Words in the illative case can describe the time of an action:

Быд¹ асылö² найö³ котралöны⁴ час⁵ джын⁶ паркын⁷.
¹ every
² morning-ILL
³ they
⁴ run-3PL


⁷ park-INE
= Every morning they run in the park (lit. 'into every morning')

Аскиа¹ лунö² лоö³ шоныд⁴ да⁵ кос⁶ поводдя⁷.
¹ 'tomorrow-ish' (adjective)
² day-ILL
³ be-3SG
⁴ warm
⁵ and
⁶ dry
⁷ weather
= Tomorrow the weather is going to be warm and dry (lit. 'into tomorrow's day will be warm and dry weather').

Воысь¹-воö² Сыктывкар лоö³ мичаджык⁴.
¹ year-ELA
² year-INE
³ be-3SG
⁴ beautiful-COMP
= Year by year, Syktyvkar is becoming more beautiful (lit. 'out of year into year').

(3) Words in the illative case can describe a profession someone is preparing for:

Митрей¹ ёртöй² велöдчö³ инженерö⁴.
¹ Mitrej (male given name).NOM
² friend-POSS.3SG
³ study-3SG
⁴ engineer-ILL
= Mitrej's friend is studying to become an engineer (lit. 'Mitrej his friend is studying into engineer').

INE / inessive / -ын

(1) Words in the inessive case describe where something is (situated) or where something is taking place:

Ми¹ олам² Коми муын³.
¹ we
² live-3SG
³ Komi land-INE
= We live in Komi land.

Ошъяс¹, кöчьяс², ручьяс³ олöны⁴ вöрын⁵.
¹ bear.NOM-PL
² hare.NOM-PL
³ fox.NOM-PL
⁴ live-3PL
⁵ forest-INE
= Bears, hares, and foxes live in the forest.

(2) Words in the inessive case can denote the time period during which something is going on:

Арын¹ лэбачъяс² лэбзьöны³ Коми муысь⁴ лунвылö⁵.
¹ autumn-INE
² bird.NOM-PL
³ fly-3PL
⁴ Komi land-ELA
⁵ sun=area-ILL
=In autumn, the birds fly from Komi land towards the south.

Тулысын¹ найö² воöны³ гортö⁴ бöр⁵.
¹ spring-INE
² they
³ return-3PL
⁴ home-ILL
⁵ (postposition, approx. "after", "past")
⁴ ⁵ (back) home
= In spring, they return home.

Воын¹ немыд², лунын³ югыд⁴.
¹ night-INE
² dark
³ day-INE
⁴ light, bright
= The night is dark, the day is bright (lit. 'in the night dark, in the day bright').

Сизим¹ часын² заводитчö³ "Öшкамöшка"⁴ телеуджтас⁵.
¹ seven
² hour-INE
⁴ begin-3SG
⁵ rainbow
⁶ TV program
= At seven o'clock, the "Öshkamöshka" program begins on TV.

(3) Words in the inessive case can also describe someone's profession:

Лидя¹ нылöй² Визинын³ велöдысьын⁴ уджалö⁵.
¹ Lydia (given name)
² daughter-POSS.3SG
³ Vizin (name of a town)
³ in Vizin-INE
⁴ teacher-INE
⁵ work-3SG
= Lydia's daughter works as a teacher in Vizin (lit. 'Lydia her daughter in Vizin in teacher works').

Митрей¹ ёртöй² уна³ во⁴ нин⁵ трактористын⁶ уджалö⁷.
¹ Mitrej (given name)
² friend.NOM-POSS.3SG
³ many
⁴ year.NOM
⁵ already
⁶ tractor operator-INE
⁷ work-3SG
= Mitrej's friend has been working as a tractor operator for many years (lit. 'Mitrej his friend many year already in tractorist works').

ELA / elative / -ысь

(1) Nouns in the elative case can describe something or someone moving out of of something:

Ручпиян¹ петiсны² вöрысь³.
¹ fox cubs "fox=kid".NOM.PL
² (they) came out
³ forest-ELA
= The fox cubs came out of the forest.

(2) A noun in the elative case can describe what something is made of:

Нянь¹ пöжалöны² пызьысь³.
¹ bread.ACC
² bake-3PL
³ flour-ELA
= Bread is baked out of flour (lit. 'bread [they] bake out of flour').

Шыд¹ пуöны² яйысь³, картупельысь⁴, шыдöсысь⁵, капустаысь⁶.
¹ shchi (cabbage soup).ACC
² cook-3PL
³ meat-ELA
⁴ potato-ELA
⁵ grain-ELA
⁶ cabbage-ELA
= Shchi (cabbage soup) is made of meat, potatoes, grain and cabbage (lit. 'schi [they] make out of meat, potato, grain, cabbage').

Пызанъяс¹ вöчöны² пуысь³.
¹ table.ACC-PL
² make-3PL
³ wood-ELA
= Tables are made of wood (lit. 'tables (they) make out of wood').

Миян¹ керка² бетонысь³, а⁴ орчча⁵ керка² изйысь⁶.
¹ my
² house.NOM
³ concrete-ELA
⁴ and, but, whereas, while
⁵ neighbour(ing) (adjective)
⁶ stone-ELA
= My house is made of concrete, while the neighbouring house is made of stone (lit. 'my house out of concrete, but neighbouring house out of stone').

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Last edited by h34 on 2022-04-07, 4:59, edited 2 times in total.

h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby h34 » 2022-03-16, 0:02

Tools and materials

гӧр = plough
ытшкысян = scythe
чарла = sickle
пиня, агас = harrow
зыр = shovel
кокан = hoe (cognate with Proto-Finnic kookka?)
тӧчила = grindstone < Russian точило
чер = axe (cognate with et kirves?)
пурт = knife
шыпурт = sword
шы = spear
ньӧв = arrow (cognate with et nool)
пач = oven
пож = sieve
гӧгыль = wheel
ем = needle (cognate with Proto-Finnic äimä?)
тув = nail
кӧрт = iron
ыргӧн = copper (mhr вӱргене)
эзысь = silver
зарни = gold
озысь = tin

:arrow: for comparison

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h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby h34 » 2022-04-07, 4:16

CAU / causative / -ла

Кодла? Мыйла? Because of what? As a result of what? For what reason? For what purpose?

(1) The causative can denote the cause of a development:

Жарысла¹ юыс² косьмӧма³
¹ heat-CAU
² river-POSS/DEF
³ dried-up
= Because of (/As a result of) the heat, the river dried up. / The river dried up because of the heat.

(2) It can also mark the object or the purpose of an activity:

ветлыны¹ вӧрӧ² тшак-вотӧсла³
¹ to-go
² forest-ILL
³ mushroom-berry-CAU
= to go into the forest for (/in order to pick) mushrooms and berries

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Last edited by h34 on 2022-10-30, 9:16, edited 1 time in total.

h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby h34 » 2022-04-07, 15:34

Outer local cases

APP / approximative / -лань
EGR / egressive / -сянь
PRO / prolative / -öд, тi
TER / terminative / -öдз

Кодлань? Мыйлань? Towards who(m)? Towards what? Where (to)? (Whither?)
> APPROXIMATIVE

Тайӧ¹ туйыс² вӧрлань³ мунӧ⁴.
¹ this
² road.POSS/DEF
³ forest.APP
⁴ leads
= This road leads to the forest.

Кодсянь? Мыйсянь? From whom? From where?
> EGRESSIVE

керка¹ вевтсянь²
¹ house
² roof.EGR
= from the roof of a house

Кодті? Мыйті? Мыйӧд? Which way?
> PROLATIVE

вӧр¹ туйӧд² мунны³
¹ forest
² road.PRO
³ walk.INF
= to walk along the forest road

Кодӧдз? Мыйӧдз? (Up) to who(m)? (Up) to what?
> TERMINATIVE

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Last edited by h34 on 2022-10-30, 9:16, edited 1 time in total.

Linguaphile
Posts:5368
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-04-07, 15:59

h34, I just went back to your older posts here and saw how much you've added in your edits; it's a really impressive thread! Thanks for posting all of this information.

h34
Posts:1425
Joined:2014-12-16, 20:15

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby h34 » 2022-04-07, 18:47

Linguaphile wrote:h34, I just went back to your older posts here and saw how much you've added in your edits; it's a really impressive thread! Thanks for posting all of this information.

It's inspiring because there are so many interesting resources for Komi-Zyrian in particular. Another one I've just come across is this video with Finnish subtitles and explanations:
https://youtu.be/3oPCvlreHLc

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Linguaphile
Posts:5368
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Komi-Zyrian (Коми кыв)

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-02-13, 4:09

(kv-kpv) Менам эм пон. I have a dog.

Compare:
(liv) Minnõn um piņ.
(vro) Minol om peni.


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