(This is a Votic version of an Ingrian song called Omal Maal.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFcVkk5ZZ8M
Lyrics:
Translation:
Naava wrote:Thanks for the video, that was very interesting! I had never heard anyone using flour for munavõi/-voi before. I wonder what its purpose is.
Naava wrote:I also don't understand what she means when she says "until the eggs are warm". How would mashing the eggs change their temperature?
Naava wrote:By the way: hämmentää means 'to stir' in Finnish, too, but it's only used with soups, porridges, drinks, and other more or less liquid things. I was surprised when she said she's going to "hämmentää" and then she mixed the eggs! For a split second I thought she would take out a cup of coffee or something.
Linguaphile wrote:Naava wrote:Thanks for the video, that was very interesting! I had never heard anyone using flour for munavõi/-voi before. I wonder what its purpose is.
You are not alone. The Estonian version doesn't usually include flour either. In the comments under the video, one comment says: En täätännüči, što javvoa piäb panna. Järjestä prooban! ("I didn't know that you should put flour in. I'll try it now!") and the person who posted the video replied with Se on vaďďa viisi retsepti, inkeroiset ja soomalaiset eväd paa! (This is the Votic-style recipe, Ingrians and Finns don't put it in!")
Linguaphile wrote:Naava wrote:I also don't understand what she means when she says "until the eggs are warm". How would mashing the eggs change their temperature?
Now that I think about it more, I think it's meant to be while the eggs are (still) warm. It seems that kuniz has both meanings. The eggs have just been boiled, so it's saying to mash them before they cool (not until they get warm).
(Ohhh... while looking at the comments to the video, I discovered the description even has an English translation. And the English translation they have provided says "Mash with a spoon while the eggs are warm.") I'll fix mine. Thanks!
I also see they translated tšämmelkakkoika / čämmelkakkojka (lit. "palm-cake") as "flatbread".
Linguaphile wrote:Naava wrote:By the way: hämmentää means 'to stir' in Finnish, too, but it's only used with soups, porridges, drinks, and other more or less liquid things. I was surprised when she said she's going to "hämmentää" and then she mixed the eggs! For a split second I thought she would take out a cup of coffee or something.
That's interesting! Thanks. Estonian doesn't seem to use any cognate for stirring foods or drinks, just for stirring minds: hämmeldama (to confuse, puzzle, perflex). But it seems there is an older variant hämmendama which can also mean "to immerse, to submerge, to water" and an older eastern Estonian dialect word hämmetama, which means "to moisten". Vōro also has hämmähtämä, hämmämä and some similar words for "to moisten, to dampen, to water", and hämm "wet, moist". All of those seem a bit closer to the Finnish usage - at least they have to do with liquids.
Naava wrote:Next question: why do they use a spoon and not a fork?
Naava wrote:No wait I got a better one: se hämmenti munia ja se hämmenti minua - 'she stirred the eggs and I was confused by that'.
Linguaphile wrote:Naava wrote:Next question: why do they use a spoon and not a fork?
I'm guessing it's just more traditional. All of the utensils and dishes in the video are traditional wooden ones. The word for spoon is an older loan than the word for fork, so I assume the same is true of its use. (No native Finnic word for fork!) Maybe that's why?
Linguaphile wrote:
It certainly could be either of those, probably more like the second one. The problem is that it simply means "palm-cake" (as in the palm of your hand) so the word itself doesn't give much clue and it seems to refer to several different kinds of bread.
Linguaphile wrote:And the makers of the video have translated it into English as "flatbread" and into Russian as "лепешка" - both mean various types of flatbreads.
Linguaphile wrote:Isä mejje (meije) = our Father (this is not the usual word order in Votic; normally meije isä)
Linguaphile wrote:kumpõ õõd taivaz = who are in the sky
Naava wrote:Linguaphile wrote:kumpõ õõd taivaz = who are in the sky
Is it really taivaz? I know that's how it's written in the video but I could swear I hear taivaiz. Or am I so used to having a plural there that I'm imagining it?
Naava wrote:FYI and offtopic, but forks were introduced to Finland in 1562 by Catherine Jagiellon as part of her dowry. People thought it was a Satan's tool because it looked like a pitchfork. Some were even ashamed to use forks or feared them. They became common in every household only after the WWII. For example, the schools in Jyväskylä started to use forks as late as in 1976. (Source) No wonder there's no shared word for it in the Finnic languages!
Kuid ikkagi tundis ta end pagana ebamugavalt. Sest laual polnud mitte ainult valge linane palakas (niisuguse pealt olid Kalamajas ka Annika pulmasöömad söödud ja Meuse majas söödi selle pealt vähem pidulikkudelgi juhtudel) ja laual polnud mitte ainult puha hõbedased nõud (niisuguseid, kuigi rohmakamaid, aga mitte sugugi kergemaid oli isalgi omajagu kapiriiulil) — ei, häda oli siin selles, et kogu söömaaeg oli kuidagi harjumatult peen ja Pall oli nelja sööja seas kuidagi eriliselt nähtaval, ja mis peaasi: Magdalena-mamsli lauale taritud hane söödi nende neetud riistapuudega, mis olid nagu väikesed hõbedast sõnnikuhargid või Neptunuse kolmpiid, mida saksa keeles gaffel'iteks kutsuti, ja millel maakeeles nime polnudki. Ja peab ütlema: alles siis läks Pallul märksa kergemaks, kui ka raehärra Beelholt oma hõbehargi vaevahigise näoga lauale pani ja hanetagumiku tõsisel siitmaa moel kahe käega oma isukale hammasveskile ette tõstis.
Yet he felt confoundedly ill at ease — not on account of the grandeur of the white linen tablecloth (which resembled the Kalamaja table covering at Annika's wedding feast, and the one they ate off even on less festive occasions at Meus's house); nor on account of the silver dishes (even his father had some of those on his shelves - not as finely wrought, perhaps, but no less solid) — no, the problem was that the entire process of eating was somehow refind in a way new to him, and he felt conspicuous among the other diners. The main difficulty was that the goose was being eaten with those cursed utensils that looked like Neptune's trident or miniature silver pitchforks, called gaffel in German, and for which there was no word in country tongue. Bal relaxed only when he saw Councilman Beelholt, his face damp from effort, put down his pronged silver utensil and, in keeping with local custom, pick up the goose leg with both hands.
Linguaphile wrote:Naava wrote:Linguaphile wrote:kumpõ õõd taivaz = who are in the sky
Is it really taivaz? I know that's how it's written in the video but I could swear I hear taivaiz. Or am I so used to having a plural there that I'm imagining it?
Thanks for catching that! Taivaz looked fine to me because I'm used to taevas in Estonian, but you're right, it's taivaiz. Actually, in the written text (theirs and mine) it has taivaiz in some places and taivaz in others. Yeah, I'll fix it.
Linguaphile wrote:I have to say, despite the associations with Satan, "miniature silver pitchfork" in the English translation sounds much more appetizing than the sõnnikuhark that appears in the Estonian original!
Linguaphile wrote:By the way (to get back on topic, since this is the Votic language thread) in Votic "fork" is gaaffali or gaaffeli in some dialects and vilkka in others. Although gaaffeli looks a lot like the gaffel mentioned in the novel above, both gaaffeli and vilkka came into Votic through Russian as far as I know - гафель (which according to Wiktionary is from Dutch, but at any rate, a northern Germanic language) and вилка (which comes from the Russian word for "little pitchfork").
Naava wrote:Linguaphile wrote:Naava wrote:Linguaphile wrote:kumpõ õõd taivaz = who are in the sky
Is it really taivaz? I know that's how it's written in the video but I could swear I hear taivaiz. Or am I so used to having a plural there that I'm imagining it?
Thanks for catching that! Taivaz looked fine to me because I'm used to taevas in Estonian, but you're right, it's taivaiz. Actually, in the written text (theirs and mine) it has taivaiz in some places and taivaz in others. Yeah, I'll fix it.
Well, in Finnish it's both:
Isä meidän, joka olet taivaissa (Our father, who are in heavens)
but
Tapahtukoon sinun tahtosi myös maan päällä niin kuin taivaassa (May your will come true also on Earth as it does in heaven)
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